[Hap]

When will Normal come back to Car world.
Who can explain how a car manufacturer like BMW can have so few vehicles on a dealer's lot.
Can't order what you want because you need to wait your turn.
The price is full sticker..not even a return customer $500 offered.
If a car is on a lot in USA the mark up over sticker is ridiculously high.
When will this come back to normal when all of us are waiting in wings for a car to be built ?

Oh one more thing..Used cars are crazy high priced !

Hap

[Zaxer]

Originally Posted by Hap

When will Normal come back to Car world.
Who can explain how a car manufacturer like BMW can have so few vehicles on a dealer's lot.
Can't order what you want because you need to wait your turn.
The price is full sticker..not even a return customer $500 offered.
If a car is on a lot in USA the mark up over sticker is ridiculously high.
When will this come back to normal when all of us are waiting in wings for a car to be built ?

Oh one more thing..Used cars are crazy high priced !

Hap

Have you been to any car lots lately? It's not a BWM thing - it's an industry thing. Semiconductor chips are at a major shortage, and it's been like this for at least a year. The fed just kicked in +$52B of funding to get things going here in the US. Estimated that the auto industry lost over 11M of units in 2021. Ford alone lost over 1M units of the F-150 last year. I've read forecasts that things will start to catch-up by the end of this year, but meanwhile manufacturers and suppliers are struggling to rehire/retain labor (as many had to furlough employees when there was not enough parts supply). It does appear used car prices are finally coming off their peak...as for new cars - I don't think this mess is cleaned up until mid-to-late 2023.

[Rag9000]

I guess when you shut down production and flood the economy with dollars the world gets weird! Anyways, based on what S&P thinks it looks like it’ll probably be around 2024…

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Rag9000

I guess when you shut down production and flood the economy with dollars the world gets weird! Anyways, based on what S&P thinks it looks like it’ll probably be around 2024…

Its not just flooded with dollars. Just about every major currency was printed.

In fact the dollar is just about equal to the euro right now.

[danallxt]

never

[DrJLag420]

Originally Posted by danallxt

never

I know that was a blunt answer. But I think it's true. Call it the new normal. I don't think prices and discounts on vehicles will ever go back to pre-pandemic.

[yuvalt]

Originally Posted by DrJLag420

I know that was a blunt answer. But I think it's true. Call it the new normal. I don't think prices and discounts on vehicles will ever go back to pre-pandemic.

It's a matter of supply and demand. Once supply increases and demand starts to go down, then we will be back to the haggling situation.

[SpeedyATL]

Used car prices are already beginning to decline at the wholesale level.

Check out YAA on youtube, they have pretty good info. Data they present shows average wholesale used car prices down .86% and .89% in just the last couple of weeks.

Doesn't sound like a lot, but in just a few months this could add up to 10ish percent. So on a $50k car, that could be $5k in price reduction.

[Starsx37]

Originally Posted by Zaxer

Have you been to any car lots lately? It's not a BWM thing - it's an industry thing. Semiconductor chips are at a major shortage, and it's been like this for at least a year. The fed just kicked in +$52B of funding to get things going here in the US. Estimated that the auto industry lost over 11M of units in 2021. Ford alone lost over 1M units of the F-150 last year. I've read forecasts that things will start to catch-up by the end of this year, but meanwhile manufacturers and suppliers are struggling to rehire/retain labor (as many had to furlough employees when there was not enough parts supply). It does appear used car prices are finally coming off their peak...as for new cars - I don't think this mess is cleaned up until mid-to-late 2023.

Originally Posted by Zaxer

Have you been to any car lots lately? It's not a BWM thing - it's an industry thing. Semiconductor chips are at a major shortage, and it's been like this for at least a year. The fed just kicked in +$52B of funding to get things going here in the US. Estimated that the auto industry lost over 11M of units in 2021. Ford alone lost over 1M units of the F-150 last year. I've read forecasts that things will start to catch-up by the end of this year, but meanwhile manufacturers and suppliers are struggling to rehire/retain labor (as many had to furlough employees when there was not enough parts supply). It does appear used car prices are finally coming off their peak...as for new cars - I don't think this mess is cleaned up until mid-to-late 2023.

This!! I work at a Ford assembly plant…

Parts are finally starting to come in larger qty but our main thing is man power…

[donnyfontaine]

Originally Posted by yuvalt

It's a matter of supply and demand. Once supply increases and demand starts to go down, then we will be back to the haggling situation.

something to consider about price stabilization... few new cars now will mean fewer used cars in the future. granted production will ramp up, probably not overshooting pre-covid levels for a while, so the used market will still be tight for a while, but just not as absolutely as insane as it is now/has been the last 2 years

[Ezmolaw]

Originally Posted by SpeedyATL

Used car prices are already beginning to decline at the wholesale level.

Check out YAA on youtube, they have pretty good info. Data they present shows average wholesale used car prices down .86% and .89% in just the last couple of weeks.

Doesn't sound like a lot, but in just a few months this could add up to 10ish percent. So on a $50k car, that could be $5k in price reduction.

Second this! YAA has excellent content sourced from public data. They've been speaking about the decline for weeks, if not months now. Car repossessions are exploding as well (Barrons actually reported this last month). I'd expect the sales shift will swing to buyers even more drastically by year end. MSRP, for the most part, is now becoming the standard. Shoot some folks are getting below MSRP these days, which hasn't been the norm lately.

[Rag9000]

Originally Posted by donnyfontaine

something to consider about price stabilization... few new cars now will mean fewer used cars in the future. granted production will ramp up, probably not overshooting pre-covid levels for a while, so the used market will still be tight for a while, but just not as absolutely as insane as it is now/has been the last 2 years

I think Donny is right. There is now a deficit in the ‘car parc’ of cars produced in 20/21/22. The average age of cars on the road in North America likely extended though (it has been growing for quite some time already). If you look at data from the salvage auctions, their unit volumes declined quite a bit for a while as used car prices made repairing a car more economic than junking it. So the deficit was probably somewhat filled by extending the lives of older cars and repairing cars in accidents that would’ve been stripped for parts.

Manheim publishes the gold standard on used car prices… they do look like they’ve finally turned the corner.

[FrankieNuo]

Originally Posted by DrJLag420

I know that was a blunt answer. But I think it's true. Call it the new normal. I don't think prices and discounts on vehicles will ever go back to pre-pandemic.

Don't drink the car industries kool aid. Their goal is to retain pandemic pricing with pre-pandemic production. It ain't happening. Once production returns to normal, it becomes a competition for sales. Competition for sales and normal production means discounts.

[SpeedyATL]

Originally Posted by FrankieNuo

Don't drink the car industries kool aid. Their goal is to retain pandemic pricing with pre-pandemic production. It ain't happening. Once production returns to normal, it becomes a competition for sales. Competition for sales and normal production means discounts.

I second this.

If nothing else, this pandemic and supply chain mess has revealed that dealers/CAs know no bounds to their greed. So, when supply edges up, they will need to feed their greed (and new found lifestyle), so competition for each sale will return which will push prices down. This will be hastened by a slowing world/US economy and rising/maintained high finance/lease rates.