[BMWFLYNN]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

They also approve open southern border.

Apropos of nothing 😂

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by BMWFLYNN

Apropos of nothing 😂

Just like your comment on mine. Don’t get triggered so easily. For whatever reason those owning EVs seem to feel like they’ve acquired some tech created by gods while in reality it’s inferior product in general with main limitation being infrastructure charge tile and range. When you pull up to gas station more often than not there’s available pump for u to use it and if not it’ll become available within 5 mins or less. What is the chance of that with charging station when all in use ? I am in Chicago area and many EV car owners are not super happy. Not talking about Tesla cause people I know don’t own them. In its current nationwide state of infrastructure it’s vastly experimental product for those that want to try newest tech and to deal with consequences. Majority doesn’t buy second EV and that’s a fact.USA doesn’t consist of major cities only. There’s quite substantial rural areas as well for those who don’t know 😊

[BMWFLYNN]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

Just like your comment on mine. Don’t get triggered so easily. For whatever reason those owning EVs seem to feel like they’ve acquired some tech created by gods while in reality it’s inferior product in general with main limitation being infrastructure charge tile and range. When you pull up to gas station more often than not there’s available pump for u to use it and if not it’ll become available within 5 mins or less. What is the chance of that with charging station when all in use ? I am in Chicago area and many EV car owners are not super happy. Not talking about Tesla cause people I know don’t own them. In its current nationwide state of infrastructure it’s vastly experimental product for those that want to try newest tech and to deal with consequences. Majority doesn’t buy second EV and that’s a fact.

I was responding to the fact ppl who didn’t want to change when cars came still ride horses because they love it

Leave the political to your Twitter or Facebook and let ppl here discuss cars

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by BMWFLYNN

I was responding to the fact ppl who didn’t want to change when cars came still ride horses because they love it

Leave the political to your Twitter or Facebook and let ppl here discuss cars

It wasn’t entirely up to preference back than but I’ll leave this knowledge for historical discussion. Also existence of EVs is majorly due too politics.

[eljay]

I can't wait to see the M Track package on these EVs!!
It will go like this:
The car will steer itself using the fastest line around Nurburgring, taking into account weather, relative humidity, grip conditions and will perfectly adapt to the conditions and deliver the fastest lap. Then we can brag to everyone how fast "we drove" around the 'Ring because we selected the correct software option in the menu.

The Ultimate DriveMe Machine!

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by eljay

I can't wait to see the M Track package on these EVs!!
It will go like this:
The car will steer itself using the fastest line around Nurburgring, taking into account weather, relative humidity, grip conditions and will perfectly adapt to the conditions and deliver the fastest lap. Then we can brag to everyone how fast "we drove" around the 'Ring because we selected the correct software option in the menu.

The Ultimate DriveMe Machine!

This is completely opposite of the approach taken by Hyundai above and I suspect that BMW will take the same approach.

Just because the car is electric doesn't mean it has to be autonomous. Or not be any fun. Ever driven a Taycan?

[eljay]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

This is completely opposite of the approach taken by Hyundai above and I suspect that BMW will take the same approach.

Just because the car is electric doesn't mean it has to be autonomous. Or not be any fun. Ever driven a Taycan?

True. I was just poking some fun.

I am actually quite excited about Ioniq 5 N coming and a 3-series Touring EV would peak my interest.... once it depreciates to teens $.

I just dislike this chasing of numbers although I know that this is what sells anything: mine is faster than yours.
Which is why I feel that going faster with various gadgetry to simulate involvement doesn't give me the itch.

[Rafichicago]

It’s going to be interesting watching those current EV’s pricing the moment those new battery packs start to be available. Maybe they will actually be at the levels acceptable to what they offer. Hopefully they will actually sell by themselves rather than government subsidizing those who want to test them. That will DEMOLISH first Gen EVs pricing we are in for some fun times.

[msej449]

Personally, I’d trade the reduced range of an M3 EV (compared to its ICE predecessor) in return for the completely linear, immediate acceleration you get with no lag whatsoever. The throttle response in my £30K hatchback EV is better than that in my M235i. Which is no surprise, because there’s no liquid fuel combustion engine, no ZF auto box and no differential in the way. In a M EV it’s going to be even better.

I don’t track, however, and I can see that for someone who does they will conclude very differently - for all sorts of valid reasons. But how many M3’s are actually tracked? And so I don’t see this as a wrong design decision by BMW. I think they’ve made a decision that in the search for yet more /M acceleration and speed, electric beats petrol. And they will gain more sales with the EV version than they lose because it’s not a petrol drivetrain.

As far as the political conspiracy goes, within the context of an M3 EV, I just don’t see it. I don’t think BMW have switched to electric for the next M3 because President Biden has decided to invest in electric technologies, any more than because he has decided to invest in chip fabrication independence from China/Taiwan. By all means argue that this isn’t how you think your tax $s should be spent, but that topic doesn’t seem to have any linkage to BMW M3 design strategy. But I know that some see the dead hand of Federal profligacy in even the most distant of objects, including an M3.

[OUGrad05]

You guys need to quit feeding the troll

[E63M6_G42M240i]

Originally Posted by micvite

It's gonna be easy to break the so called record... look at the plaid, 7:25 vs 7:18 on the m4 csl (which was 7:20 until just recently) a heavy ev can still match most performance cars on a track like that. Take it to the GP track and you won't have brakes after the first few laps (heck I lost brakes after 2 in a non ccb m5 flying down the straight at 140 mph and realizing I had to pray turning the car 90 degrees was going to be enough to slow it down and it barely was) simply because it's a track that doesn't have high speed corners, they're all technical turns with fairly low entry speeds, brief acceleration back up to sometimes triple digits and back down to low doubles almost instantly which is taxing on both tires and brakes. But the nordshleife? Never gonna be an issue, there's like 2 slow turns, everything else is high speed 130 mph+ corners and as long as you have grip which Ding Ding Ding more weight = more grip on tires (think downforce) you're going to get fantastic times no matter what as long as the power is consistent over a large range of the battery and cooling can be properly implemented (I know for a fact the plaid cut power during its runs due to overheating). But if you think about it realistically you keep an ICE race car light for acceleration purposes then add globs of weight at speed for turning so if you can have a 6k lbs car that can accelerate the same way, then add even MORE weight at speed the grip will be astronomical for high speed turns, not so much slow speed technical turns like a chicane where weight transfer now becomes an issue or [...]

If you’re talking about the s plaids Nurburgring run IT WAS ON SUPERCAR 3R spec tires the equivalent to cup r tires, which make it in fact slower than both the AMG GT63S sedan and M3CS sedan.

[gofast182]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Yeah, I am not sure what Nurburgring records that plan on "demolishing"?

Rimac Nevera is currently the pinnacle of EV battery technology. It is hard to really improve upon it, until solid state batteries become reality.

Nevera is a carbon monocoque chassis, with a 120kwh battery pack, active aero and quad motors. It just set a ring time of 7:05. Couldn't break the 7min barrier, for a $2mill price tag.

If you read closely you’ll see they want to break the record for an M car.

[OUGrad05]

Originally Posted by gofast182

If you read closely you’ll see they want to break the record for an M car.

No reason to believe that they won't break the record. That'll be great for bragging rights. I still ultimately think that we're 7 or 10 years away from significantly lighter batteries per level of power output/range, which when that occurs will be a huge leap forward.

[OUGrad05]

Originally Posted by msej449

Personally, I’d trade the reduced range of an M3 EV (compared to its ICE predecessor) in return for the completely linear, immediate acceleration you get with no lag whatsoever. The throttle response in my £30K hatchback EV is better than that in my M235i. Which is no surprise, because there’s no liquid fuel combustion engine, no ZF auto box and no differential in the way. In a M EV it’s going to be even better.

I don’t track, however, and I can see that for someone who does they will conclude very differently - for all sorts of valid reasons. But how many M3’s are actually tracked? And so I don’t see this as a wrong design decision by BMW. I think they’ve made a decision that in the search for yet more /M acceleration and speed, electric beats petrol. And they will gain more sales with the EV version than lose because it’s not a petrol drivetrain.

As far as the political conspiracy goes, within the context of an M3 EV, I just don’t see it. I don’t think BMW have switched to electric for the next M3 because President Biden has decided to invest in electric technologies, any more than because he has decided to invest in chip fabrication independence from China/Taiwan. By all means argue that this isn’t how you think your tax $s should be spent, but that topic doesn’t seem to have any linkage to BMW M3 design strategy. But I know that some see the dead hand of Federal profligacy in even the most distant of objects, including an M3.

The market is moving towards electric, we can check the politics at the door. As a DD I absolutely love the i4. For my weekend/fun car? I want the noise, engagement, vibration and character that goes along with a Dino burner.

Granted, I realize that is a bit old fashioned but for a "fun" weekender I don't honestly care.

I also think that electric will get better to drive from an engagement perspective as time goes on. I would expect BMW to making steering better, the introduction of 2 or 3 speed drivetrains may also add some character? I'm also not opposed to owning an electric sports car down the road.

[R N M]

I never realized there are so many ppl that want BMW M performance car that is EV. No wonder all current Ms have been tuned more for luxury and less engagement.

Whatever happened to ppl appreciating engine / exhaust sounds, the way a car responds to shifts at various rpms, the learning curve/skill to operate it smoothly and push the limits.

Driving EV is same as playing a computer game. The sounds/feel are all fake and there is no engine to give the car soul/character.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

This is completely opposite of the approach taken by Hyundai above and I suspect that BMW will take the same approach.

Just because the car is electric doesn't mean it has to be autonomous. Or not be any fun. Ever driven a Taycan?

Taycan is nothing special, just drives better than the rest of the boring EVs.
Porsche can’t give them away and have very attractive leases. I believe production has been lowered from past years. All Porsche has available are Macans and Cayennes.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by R N M

I never realized there are so many ppl that want BMW M performance car that is EV. No wonder all current Ms have been tuned more for luxury and less engagement.

Whatever happened to ppl appreciating engine / exhaust sounds, the way a car responds to shifts at various rpms, the learning curve/skill to operate it smoothly and push the limits.

Driving EV is same as playing a computer game. The sounds/feel are all fake and there is no engine to give the car soul/character.

Be careful or you will be called troll here. You absolutely have to like EVs. It seems like owners are triggered even easier than M vs AMG crowd 🤣
Anyway used Taycan prices are constantly falling of the cliff. Probably because it’s quiet, fast, has great range, fantastic driving dynamics, newest technology doesn’t have to be fueled…

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Well let’s all bury our head in the sand then…. I mean it’s not like ice is melting and the planet is heating at a horrific rate.

RIP Grand kids and ‘normal’ weather.

Maybe so but these cars aren’t making one bit of difference, nor any other cars. This is my primary annoyance with the EV push. It’s not a solution to the advertised problem. Go talk to China and India about their carbon footprint if you want to make an actual difference. This EV business is just that, business. Some folks saw a problem and used it to convince governments to push an entire industry toward their business and make a lot of money. Not the first time or the last. If people want electric cars then the market should provide it and it will. Not a problem, I love that concept of capitalism. What’s ridiculous is simultaneously using regulation to choke out another product that people like and want and that does its job well in order to force the market toward a product it isn’t really asking for.

Anyway, that’s my two cents.

[brava09]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

Be careful or you will be called troll here. You absolutely have to like EVs. It seems like owners are triggered even easier than M vs AMG crowd 🤣
Anyway used Taycan prices are constantly falling of the cliff. Probably because it’s quiet, fast, has great range, fantastic driving dynamics, newest technology doesn’t have to be fueled…

EV purchase insecurity. They know they did a mistake already

Flame suit on

[msej449]

Originally Posted by brava09

EV purchase insecurity. They know they did a mistake already

Certainly, some people are being mis-sold EVs by showroom sales reps, only to find that they're not the right match for their real needs. But that's just as true with petrol models.

It's tedious for someone like me who has both an M-Lite and an EV, posting based on my experience, to be told repeatedly that I'm doing so solely because I have some regret about the EV. If I regretted the buy, I'd ditch it and buy the petrol version - I can afford to. In 50 years of motoring, I've made a couple of bad ICE buys and changed them promptly.

But any mention of EVs, in any context, seems to bring out some drivers who simply can't countenance any criticism of petrol cars - even 'though there is no criticism in the first place. That's where the insecurity lies.

[msej449]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

For whatever reason those owning EVs seem to feel like they’ve acquired some tech created by gods while in reality it’s inferior product in general with main limitation being infrastructure charge tile and range. .... USA doesn’t consist of major cities only. There’s quite substantial rural areas as well for those who don’t know ��

I never read, here or anywhere, someone claiming that they've bought an EV for the almost alien advanced tech. In six months, I've not had to charge en route because I have a charge point at home and the range works fine for me. Rural isn't the problem - it's access to home charging or not that is. In fact, people in rural areas often find it easier to get a charger installed than in many suburban ones.

[Bimmer5]

No thanks I’ll take the slower ICE version.