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      12-06-2023, 06:13 PM   #1
ronin13013
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M2 vs McLaren?!?

wow!
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      12-07-2023, 01:11 PM   #2
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The McLaren driver had terrible lines most of the time, it would probably be 5 to 10 secs a lap ahead of the M2 driver if driven well.
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      12-09-2023, 09:19 AM   #3
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I've had both and they are pretty different cars (Captain Obvious Award™ achieved, LOL)

From my experience, The Mclaren is wildly fast, but really does not have a ton of grip. Mclaren stated that they undersized the tires slightly for a more lively feel. It really is a handful on track. The M2 is almost ridiculously stable, with a wide and progressive friction circle. I just remember always having a little fear when tracking the 570S. The M2 is more like the newer GT3s in that it feels like your best friend at 10/10ths.

These track-day vids pretty much tell the story of the driver more than the car. Not everyone will take an expensive car to 10/10ths. A suicidal guy in a miata may beat a cautious "enthusiast" in a corvette...
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      12-11-2023, 11:18 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCDRJohn View Post
These track-day vids pretty much tell the story of the driver more than the car. Not everyone will take an expensive car to 10/10ths. A suicidal guy in a miata may beat a cautious "enthusiast" in a corvette...
so true!
that is why I use Car an driver - lightning lap to have a better idea of what is faster on a racetrack

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/

Last edited by Charley135; 12-11-2023 at 11:47 AM..
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      12-14-2023, 04:33 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley135 View Post
so true!
that is why I use Car an driver - lightning lap to have a better idea of what is faster on a racetrack

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/
Right but I don't really see the LL as an apples to apples comparison. It's more like apples to maybe like a pear, they have somewhat similar textures? There's just too many variables to have a direct comparison, driver (experience, comfort with vehicle, is he/she tired or fresh, etc.), time of day, condition of track, condition of tires, etc. For example, I don't think a Mini Cooper is going to be 15 seconds faster than a S2000 CR on that track if you ran them the same day with the same drive at a theoretical same time, but that's what it shows.

I still think it's entertaining as hell though and looks like a ton of fun.
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      12-14-2023, 11:46 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep View Post
Right but I don't really see the LL as an apples to apples comparison. It's more like apples to maybe like a pear, they have somewhat similar textures? There's just too many variables to have a direct comparison, driver (experience, comfort with vehicle, is he/she tired or fresh, etc.), time of day, condition of track, condition of tires, etc. For example, I don't think a Mini Cooper is going to be 15 seconds faster than a S2000 CR on that track if you ran them the same day with the same drive at a theoretical same time, but that's what it shows.

I still think it's entertaining as hell though and looks like a ton of fun.
I agree.

Whereas the Lightning Laps are good comparisons within the same year, the comparisons from one year to another are not valid. For example, the advancement of tire technology is probably the largest variable as time goes by. Tires today have 30% more grip than tires from just a decade ago. So, max-level cars from 2006 are getting spanked by Civic Type-Rs and Corolla GRs on their list. Put some 2023 tires on that 2006 ZO6/GT3/Viper and see who wins!
Same reason why "Ring" times are a joke. With the absurd size of the track, and the varied conditions from day-to-day and even over single lap, there is almost never a fair comparison of data. Only the top-tier companies can compare data, because they can rent the whole track, on the perfect day, at exactly the right temps, with a tier-1 driver. All the rest of the automotive world just put their faith in luck and try to get a decent run on a tourist day. Then we pour over the data like it means something.

I remember Grassroots motorsports once did some cool comparisons. One example was a pretty hot-for-its-day 1970's 911 vs a toyota sienna minivan. Because of tire tech, they concluded that the minivan would lap the 911 within 10 or so laps in a race! LOL!
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      12-16-2023, 01:04 PM   #7
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Dat Fiat X1/9 GOOOOOOOOOOOO!!
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      12-18-2023, 11:07 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep View Post
Right but I don't really see the LL as an apples to apples comparison. It's more like apples to maybe like a pear, they have somewhat similar textures? There's just too many variables to have a direct comparison, driver (experience, comfort with vehicle, is he/she tired or fresh, etc.), time of day, condition of track, condition of tires, etc. For example, I don't think a Mini Cooper is going to be 15 seconds faster than a S2000 CR on that track if you ran them the same day with the same drive at a theoretical same time, but that's what it shows.

I still think it's entertaining as hell though and looks like a ton of fun.
I understand when you compare cars with a 10 years gap that is not relevant.
But it's way more accurate than any track day video and sadly, it's the only reference available on a racetrack year after year.
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