[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by chris719

Based on what I have seen from reading basically every S65 and S85 thread here and on M5board, I am skeptical that even a 100% complete Blackstone history will let you know if/when you need to replace rod bearings, even with earlier production bearings containing lead.

I certainly wouldn't rely on low / consistent lead levels and conclude you don't need to swap out your bearings at high mileage or something. Without a detailed analysis of their methods, it's just a guess. For example, factors that matter could include what kind/size of particulates the rod bearing wear produces and how it interacts with the filter media.

A UOA will probably pick up a spike in lead but without one one more follow up UOAs the owner won't know if it was just a one-time particle streak. UOA rely on gas spectronomy so large particles will only get noticed via particle count. Not all labs will offer a particle count on motor oil.

[David70]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Last I checked, manufacturers of street cars don't recommend tracking tracking their cars and keeping the warranty. But you can bring up a new issue I didn't address to try and make a counterpoint my position. If one tracks their car, they probably shouldn't follow the manufacturer's recommended service schedule. Not like that's not obvious...

Or you can point to unique situations of low-rate production engines with over-stressed parts. Yay!

Your only point is you drove a lot and never had a problem therefore no one else should either.

The warranty has zero to do with it.

Thanks for all of the information.

[David70]

Originally Posted by chris719

Based on what I have seen from reading basically every S65 and S85 thread here and on M5board, I am skeptical that even a 100% complete Blackstone history will let you know if/when you need to replace rod bearings, even with earlier production bearings containing lead.

I certainly wouldn't rely on low / consistent lead levels and conclude you don't need to swap out your bearings at high mileage or something. Without a detailed analysis of their methods, it's just a guess. For example, factors that matter could include what kind/size of particulates the rod bearing wear produces and how it interacts with the filter media.

S54 has issues with the rod bearings and they are made of copper and then coated. If you see elevated copper levels on this engine there is an excellent chance this is where it is coming from. The fix is far less expensive than the complete engine rebuild.

See below.

https://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1493760

[I]Lead – Usually a soft metal, most common related to bushings and Rod Bearings. Engine oil which are highly oxidized can attack the bearing material, leads to increased lead readings.
Iron – Mostly comes from Cylinder liners, Rings, Crankshaft, Camshaft, Rods, Valve Train, Oil pump gear, Wrist pins, cast iron components and Gears. Usually found as fine particles due to abrasion or wear.
Aluminium –Generally comes from Pistons, Turbo Bearings, Main and Rod Bearings, pumps, thrust bearings and washers, plates and Aluminium castings. Aluminium associated with silica indicates dirt. Aluminium found in hydraulic system should be generally due to dirt ingestion and in final drives can be associated with dirt or sand.
Copper – Usually like a soft metal present in Main and Rod Bearings, Oil Cooler core, Clutch plates, Brass and Bronze bushings and Roller bearing outer cage. In engines it should be due to the water pump leak or coolant core. If it is found along with potassium, sodium and glycol, it will be coming from the oil cooler. If it is found along with lead and tin, it will be coming from bearing or bushing.[/I]

[gurns]

My life long experience, logic, reading and consultation with mechanics has guided me to change the oil in my cars in and around 5K miles. I change the oil not because of the reason that it breaks down rather because it is dirty. Tracking a car is a whole different situation when it comes to oil change philosophy and science. I followed the condition based maintenance schedule in my 330. Near the end of the warranty period the diagnostic sensors started to generate maintenance lights that were engine related issues. It’s been awhile since that time and I can’t remember exactly what those diagnostic codes were. However, I do remember carbon and oil sledge build up were found when troubleshooting the issue. Once I went back to the more frequent oil change schedule I never had those issues again with that car. Henceforth and like I did prior to the 330 I never had an engine related wear issue. Lastly, and to the point(s) mentioned by others the engine needs to be routinely exercised - it was designed and built to operate to its capacity. This is especially true in M like model cars. I try, when conditions exist, to max out the rpm’s in all the gears each time I drive the car. It’s a win-win situation if you know what I mean. ��

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by David70

Your only point is you drove a lot and never had a problem therefore no one else should either.

The warranty has zero to do with it.

Thanks for all of the information.

No, I drove a lot with a lot of different cars over 4 decades (before Blackstone was a thing) to mileages well over the amount that average people keep their cars and never needed an oil analysis to prevent engine damage. You brought up track cars and a unique situation with an M variant of a BMW in-line 6 engine where BMW did a poor engineering effort related to increasing the HP/liter ratio. So really the issue is with the engineering and not with the use, or lack of use, of an oil analysis.

So fine, if you buy a E46 M3, Z4M, or even a E9X M series you can use oil analysis to figure out when the rod bearings will bite the dust.

But for 99.999% of owners, an oil analysis is not necessary, even if you are a BMW enthusiast and think it's cool to have your oil tested in your-over maintained BMW.

Warranty does have to do with it, because track use is generally not covered and is considered excessive use that voids the factory warranty. So if you buy a new car and then track it, an oil analysis may tell you the engine is experiencing undue wear on internal, oil-lubricated parts. But the end result is the same, the manufacturer will not cover engine damage due to track use.

[mittu]

I'm new to the n54 scene. Tryna figure out which oil is best to use, Castrol gtx or liqui moly molygen?
Here in the UK both are about the same price.
5L is around £40-42.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Where did you take the information that track use is not covered under warranty?

From page 33 of the 2006 BMW E90 Warranty booklet:

This warranty shall be null and void if the
vehicle identification number has been
altered or cannot be read, if the odometer
has been replaced or altered and the true
mileage cannot be determined, if the
vehicle has been declared a total loss or
sold for salvage purposes, or if the vehicle has been used in any competitive event.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Going on a track doesn'tmean the car is used in a competitive event.

The warranty absolutely covers cars that break on track. Not if you’re in a competitive event, as stated.

If you have evidence that you broke your BMW at the track then had it fixed under warranty stating to the SA that you were tracking your car at the time it broke, then post such proof.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by M2siast

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...warranty+claim

Plus, I mean, BMW organizes track events for us to attend as owners… imagine our cars breaking down and them saying “yeah you’re SOL, I built this event and invited you but you shouldn’t have come!”

So, one ancedotal internet source in the UK, that proves the point outright, sure. And in that specific case, the poster didn't state to the SA the engine blew up during a track event; the UK dealer found out on its own the incident happened on a track and first denied the warranty claim. Then the poster had to get free legal representation. So yeah, let that one single incident be proof that BMW doesn't reject warranty claims for track use.

Regarding BMW track days. My understanding is that BMW N.A. sponsored track days use BMW corporate cars rather than the owner's personal cars (that'd be an insurance nightmare for BMW).

The language in the citation I provided is clear. Every warranty claim is adjudicated by the manufacturer on a case-by-case basis. But you are free to take your chances with your car.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Ok man. Cheers

Right on, Brother.