[FCX5]

I don’t think Ford is even trying to make great cars anymore. Do they still make the GT? BMW, to me is much more serious about engine and driving dynamics. Ford is happy making trucks. Their trucks are quite decent…

[MT6]

Originally Posted by FCX5

I don’t think Ford is even trying to make great cars anymore. Do they still make the GT? BMW, to me is much more serious about engine and driving dynamics. Ford is happy making trucks. Their trucks are quite decent…

If you are in the market for a V8 with a Tremec MT than Darkhorse is the only choice I think.

Yeah the GT350 is sunset, GT500 does live on but is supercharged powerplant with no MT on offer.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by E63M6_G42M240i

Exactly. The only ones that care about model 3’s are model 3 owners. They are the least interest least unique cars in the world at the moment. Nothing more than regular traffic clones. The Toyota Camry of this generation.

Given the difference in quality, refinement, and fit and finish, this is an insult to the Camry, TBH. The Tesla can't hold a candle to a Camry on anything the Camry cares about.

I'd say it's more like the Altima of this generation. Boring as hell, bland, and also not particularly reliable or polished.

[E63M6_G42M240i]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Given the difference in quality, refinement, and fit and finish, this is an insult to the Camry, TBH. The Tesla can't hold a candle to a Camry on anything the Camry cares about.

I'd say it's more like the Altima of this generation. Boring as hell, bland, and also not particularly reliable or polished.

Where’s that mike Tyson meme when I need it 🤣

[TargaM2]

If you bought an M2 for straight line performance you bought the wrong car. Yes it is quick but the car is so much more than that.
Why you’d even mention a Tesla in the same breath as an M2 is beyond me, one is a true performance car with the wide breadth of abilities that a true performance car offers, the other is nothing more than a commuting appliance & a pretty horrid one at that.
And for those that insist that we all drag race other cars on the road, speak for yourself, some of us are not children & actually care about a cars driving dynamics & thus use the car accordingly.
If your a stoplight hero try getting a Motorsport license & competing where a drivers skill & a cars ability are actually tested. Any moron in any shitbox can stand on the go-pedal in a straight line.

[mrdudley]

“You weren’t that far ahead. Maybe one car.”

That made me chuckle because it was definitely more than one car difference.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by GabesSlowM4

This is True! I have a S550 mustang GT with performance pack and the gearing of 3.73 helps out a lot. However, I still think the M2 would pull away if it was a straight drag race from a dig or roll. I understand my M4 is faster then the M2 but based on my butt dyno the S58 even detuned would win.

M4 and M2 are virtually the same when it comes to acceleration. Here's a M4C X-drive and a G87. Once you get going, they are neck and neck. You would think the car with the extra 50 hp would pull hard but it doesn't.

Originally Posted by mrdudley

“You weren’t that far ahead. Maybe one car.”

That made me chuckle because it was definitely more than one car difference.

Here's the thing. He ordered a G87 and didn't take delivery, my guess would be to fund his channel, so his opinion is a little skewed. Because the G87 absolutely destroyed that Mustang, nowhere near "one car length."

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

M4 and M2 are virtually the same when it comes to acceleration. Here's a M4C X-drive and a G87. Once you get going, they are neck and neck. You would think the car with the extra 50 hp would pull hard but it doesn't.

Based on the dynos of G87s that have been done, it's doubtful the M3 or M4 have more hp than the G87.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Given the difference in quality, refinement, and fit and finish, this is an insult to the Camry, TBH. The Tesla can't hold a candle to a Camry on anything the Camry cares about.

I'd say it's more like the Altima of this generation. Boring as hell, bland, and also not particularly reliable or polished.

Maybe the R/T K-Car for the ‘20s?

[MT6]

Yeah if we can’t win in a drag race change the narrative to build quality & driving experience

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by MT6

Yeah if we can’t win in a drag race change the narrative to build quality & driving experience

Well, although I far prefer the manual G87 with 118mph in 12.2 seconds over a 1/4 mile, the automatic G87 does 122mph in 11.7 seconds compared with 115mph and 11.6 seconds for the Model 3P, The Model 3P just doesn’t have much grunt at the top end, it is only about the AWD traction off the line. I think the G87 has the quality, driving experience and overall performance over the M3P.

The M3P is also sub-par for it’s power on a road course. One of our track club members has a tuned E92, Lotus Exige and M3P. For 2 laps the M3P is almost as fast as the other two, then it is all over-heating brakes, tyres going off and limp mode. It can also only do 3 30min sessions before a recharge. With the M3P and Taycan I can smell that I’m catching up with them (in my Caterham without a windshield), even though I can’t see the cars that may be a corner or two ahead, due to the brake smell.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by MT6

Yeah if we can’t win in a drag race change the narrative to build quality & driving experience

I'd phrase it as: as a performance vehicle, the Tesla is a very limited one trick pony, and we rightfully can point that out. The G87 is far more capable overall.

[adam12hicks]

So there IS replacement for displacement.

[Fastfwd]

Originally Posted by mckman

The M2 is certainly faster in a straight line, although the Dark Horse has more grip and better braking. Either could win on the right track.

Mustang Dark Horse
C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 4.1 sec
100 mph: 9.7 sec
1/4-Mile: 12.5 sec @ 115 mph
130 mph: 16.4 sec
150 mph: 23.2 sec
Results above omit 1-ft rollout of 0.3 sec.
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 5.0 sec
Top Gear, 30–50 mph: 9.4 sec
Top Gear, 50–70 mph: 8.8 sec
Top Speed (mfr's claim): 166 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 142 ft
Braking, 100–0 mph: 278 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad: 1.07 g

BMW M2
C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 3.9 sec
100 mph: 8.7 sec
1/4-Mile: 12.2 sec @ 118 mph
130 mph: 14.6 sec
150 mph: 21.5 sec
Results above omit 1-ft rollout of 0.3 sec.
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 4.6 sec
Top Gear, 30–50 mph: 7.3 sec
Top Gear, 50–70 mph: 6.2 sec
Top Speed (mfr's claim): 177 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 154 ft
Braking, 100–0 mph: 302 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad: 1.03 g

I'm not trying to correct you individually, but I'm not certain everyone understands that the Dark Horse itself can be ordered with a 'Track Pack' that further enhances track performance. I believe that is where the larger (305/315 vs 255/275) super sticky rubber comes from and specially tuned Magneride suspension.

It is possibly somewhat comparable to the old Performance Pack 2 variation of the S550 GT. It's like a$5k package if I recall. I don't know this, but if it is like the Performance Pack 2 variation of the S550 it would be much less daily driver friendly. Stiffer, track tires that wear quickly, etc.

It might be more comparable to a future 'Competition' version of the G87. The 'base' Dark Horse would be more comparable to the current G87 being sold imo.

I looked seriously at these as an option while shopping is the only reason I am aware of this distinction.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Fastfwd

I'm not trying to correct you individually, but I'm not certain everyone understands that the Dark Horse itself can be ordered with a 'Track Pack' that further enhances track performance. I believe there is where the larger (305/315 vs 255/275) super sticky rubber comes from and specially tuned Magneride suspension.

It is possibly somewhat comparable to the old Performance Pack 2 variation of the S550 GT. It's like a$5k package if I recall. I don't know this, but if it is like the Performance Pack 2 variation of the S550 it would be much less daily driver friendly. Stiffer, track tires that wear quickly, etc.

It might be more compatible to a future 'Competition' version of the G87. The 'base' Dark Horse would be more comparable to the current G87 being sold imo.

I looked seriously at these as an option while shopping is the only reason I am aware of this distinction.

The G87 option in most if not all countries besides the US for the Pilot Cup 2 tyres (although they are Connect 240 as opposed to the R version) should improve the grip and braking performance to the levels of the Dark Horse track tyres in the Track Pack option.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by Fastfwd

I'm not trying to correct you individually, but I'm not certain everyone understands that the Dark Horse itself can be ordered with a 'Track Pack' that further enhances track performance. I believe there is where the larger (305/315 vs 255/275) super sticky rubber comes from and specially tuned Magneride suspension.

It was my understanding that EVERY DH review car has the track pack, Ford will adamantly not anyone test the base DH. Several journalists have commented that the Trofeo tires make apples-to-apples comparisons hard, but Ford will NOT let them change the tires.

So I'm assuming all the numbers we are seeing is with the track pack, unless stated otherwise.

[JamnF87]

Originally Posted by aerobod

Only up to about 100mph. The G87 has a higher trap speed in the 1/4 mile, is faster to 130mph and a lot faster to 150mph:

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-bmw-m2-drive/
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/

And also no vag in a Tesla is gonna go over 100mph…

[Humdizzle]

Kia EV6 beat the M2 on edmunds u-drag

faster trap speed in the 1/4 mile and nearly had the same trap speed at the end of the "U" as well. 131.9 vs 131 mph.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

Kia EV6 beat the M2 on edmunds u-drag

faster trap speed in the 1/4 mile and nearly had the same trap speed at the end of the "U" as well. 131.9 vs 131 mph.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW5l...el=EdmundsCars

Right, thats the beauty of instant power and being able to put that power down 100% of the time. The M2 has much better brakes grip and dont forget that the more you race, the quicker the M2 gets and the slower the EV gets.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

Right, thats the beauty of instant power and being able to put that power down 100% of the time. The M2 has much better brakes grip and dont forget that the more you race, the quicker the M2 gets and the slower the EV gets.

Also, you can refill an M2 during a track day. When the EV is empty, it's often done for the day. (Yes, I know, not literally, but unless there are superchargers on site, you are probably done.)

[Carefree]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Also, you can refill an M2 during a track day. When the EV is empty, it's often done for the day. (Yes, I know, not literally, but unless there are superchargers on site, you are probably done.)

At the end of the day, it’s still a Kia.