04-17-2024, 10:11 PM | #1 |
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CSL Sway Bars
Hey all,
I have a 2024 M2 Carbon package that I track pretty heavily in Southern California. Current mods: - 19x11 square apex wheels / 305/30/19 Supercar3R - Millwood Camber Plates - No rear seats My current findings are that even while using the super sticky 100tw tire on track is that even with the Millwood camber plates maxed out to ~3.3 degrees front / 2.5 rear. Looking at my tire wear it seems that I am using about 50-60% of the front tire, and about 70% of the rear tread due to how soft everything is. I'm hoping the CSL Sway bars can add some rigidity to the front and rear end but will report back after 5/12 as thats my next track event at Streets of Willows Springs.
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04-21-2024, 03:54 AM | #2 |
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Are you using a tire pyrometer to check the settings you are using .
I'm at -2.5 front and -1.8 rear camber and my readings and wear are looking pretty good. The amount of grip I had last weekend with cup 2 R tires was insane. What pressure are you running in the tires at the end of a session. I just ruined a set of cup 2 R tires letting them get to 39 psi , and corded them in the middle of the tread, not at the edge. Last edited by maxwell smart; 04-21-2024 at 04:40 AM.. |
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04-21-2024, 04:08 AM | #3 |
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Also i wanted to ask how your experience is going without the rear seat .
last year I pulled mine out and did six track days , but I found the vehicle had a severe case of wind buffet in the interior so bad people in the pits would ask what was up. you could hear the buffeting throughout the whole property, it was pretty crazy, i think it was slowing the car down. I reinstalled the seat in the fall and left it in and up to start this season and found the buffet had disappeared and the vehicle is way easier to drive on course. |
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04-22-2024, 08:10 PM | #4 | |
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The no rear seats sucks. As you've mentioned, due to the severe wind buffetting. It rattles my brain apart and really sucks, but since I'm mostly doing time trials I take all the weight savings I can. I haven't noticed the car handling "worse" with the buffeting my brain is probably getting the "blender treatment" on track. I've also noticed its specifically bad with certain conditions. Some track days its not bad at all, and some days its almost unbearable.
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04-23-2024, 04:11 AM | #5 |
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Are you sure your not running too low pressure. in the Michelin bulletin I found the cup tires are not supposed to be run lower than 29psi or case damage can occur. regardless of manufacturer I wonder if 25psi is letting the tire roll onto the sidewall.
check out a pyrometer, there's a good one made in America that's inexpensive and will pay dividends in the information that can be gained. |
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04-23-2024, 10:20 AM | #6 |
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Following as I’m about to be in the same boat. Vorshlag camber plates and 19x11 with 3r
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04-24-2024, 04:32 AM | #7 |
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Hello Leggo ,
I would look for a technical bulletin from goodyear with the parameters they would like that tire to be run at. That should help you make initial decisions on where to start with your setup. Then when your at the track use the pyrometer to make sure your using all the tread for maximum grip. Im using millway plates and have them adjusted to 12mm inward to produce -2.5 front , it still has good road manners, and my tire wear at the track looks good. |
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04-24-2024, 09:39 PM | #8 | |
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I don't have the luxury of tire warmers so i need to start them so low or they will get too hot on track. I've found after two laps (avoiding the rumbles) I get them to about 30-32 hot and can keep them there +/- 2 degrees. I've started the SuperCar3R at 25 PSI and have gotten them to 36 pounds hot if I don't have some cool down laps and push too hard. The wear im getting def isnt from starting too low as I do significantly more laps at 32 psi than 25.
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05-09-2024, 09:04 PM | #9 |
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Fun update. I had EAS order me a front CSL sway bar and rear. Seems that BMW sent the wrong part and sent a Front CSL and Front M2/3/4 sway bar.
BUT we did some science...sort of. It seems that the CSL (2nd photo) and non-CSL (3rd photo) sway bar are practically identical. Minus the position of where the hole for the end link enter. The CSL Sway bar seems to be ~1/5 of an inch lower than the non-CSL. That being said, the bar itself could have been constructed differently so we decided to modify the CSL bar instead of the OEM one I had originally on the car...and if the modified CSL bar sucks, I can always go back to the stock bar. Out of fear that it would only be marginally stiffer...and for the sake of science. We ended up adding an additional hole under the CSL bar to increase the stiffness. See the first photo. I will report this Sunday when I hit Streets Of Willow, CCW with my findings.
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05-10-2024, 06:55 AM | #10 | |
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05-10-2024, 08:24 PM | #11 | |
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So we (Nick & Steve @ EAS) took calipers and measured everything, unfortunately I did not ask them to take pictures until after we did the drilling. I took my wife to get sushi for lunch to get more "car spending tokens", so I wasn't at the shop the whole time. There was no difference in any measurement of the bar (length, girth, width). The only noticeable difference was the flange where the end link meets, but that was due to the CSL bar having the hole slightly lower than the M2/M3/M4 bar. This made the flange appear larger on the non-csl bar but when measured it was the same length. Just because the measurements are the same, the "stiffness" of the bar could be vastly different due to manufacturing differences (treatment of metal, hollow vs solid core, materials used, etc). I would assume however, that BMW cut on costs and made one bar and just spaced the holes in different locations. To fit the CSL, M2, M3,M4. Here are photos of the bar attached. Took it today when prepping the car for the track this sunday.
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05-15-2024, 12:23 PM | #12 |
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Hey All,
So here is an update on the modified CSL Sway bar and my takeaways. I was able to get a Bimmer Challenge B3 Class Record and 1st Place at my time trial this weekend at Streets of Willow, CCW. Time was a 1:19.987 Video of the lap here: Take Away: The stiffer front bar definitely helps tighten up the front of the car and helps with mid & high speed corner entry understeer. It isn't hugely noticeable on a track like SoW as its a very tight and quick track. I am still struggling with corner exit understeer, but I also have a tendency to get the car into the corner too fast so thats mostly a "me" problem. I would say that if you have the know how and ability, drilling an extra hole into the OEM sway bar to tighten it up would be 100% worth it. This way you get some adjustability and you don't need to spend any money. I am not sure if the CSL sway bar is "worth it" by itself as its $380 and you could realistically obtain the same results by drilling the OEM sway bar and a drill.
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Last edited by DutchBoysRacing; 05-15-2024 at 07:33 PM.. |
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05-21-2024, 12:17 PM | #13 |
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Thanks for updating the thread with the results, this actually really does help the community. Also, why not change the suspension to stiffer springs all around? Something like a KW HAS where you can adjust the height if the curbing is high on certain tracks? Or hell, go with something like Ohlins if you don't mind losing the EDC and spending the big bucks. Seems like the next step in the progression of the track car.
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