[Carefree]

Good to read there exists a distinct separation between audiophiles and audiofools.

[BroDoze]

Power equals headroom. Headroom equals dynamics. Power has little to do with volume. Yes, of course speaker sensitivity and efficiency come in to play.
You can have the most sensitive, efficient speakers made, but if they’re underpowered, you will lose dynamics because there’s no headroom left.

This is 101 basic stuff folks.

Any of you do this professionally for hundreds of thousands of dollars in both home and auto? Or just hobby shit hanging around on audiophile forums?

[Carefree]

“Power has little to do with volume”

Amen to that. Years ago I had PX-25 monoblock amplifiers coupled with a pair of 101dB speakers.
Each speaker was comprised of 2 full range 10” drivers and a self powered 12” sub.

Those 5WPC amps drove the speakers to window shattering SPL.

I owned an ultra high end audio business for 14 years after a 35 year stint in corporate America.
It was a blast.

[MASHCT]

Originally Posted by Carefree

“Power has little to do with volume”

Amen to that. Years ago I had PX-25 monoblock amplifiers coupled with a pair of 101dB speakers.
Each speaker was comprised of 2 full range 10” drivers and a self powered 12” sub.

Those 5WPC amps drove the speakers to window shattering SPL.

I owned an ultra high end audio business for 14 years after a 35 year stint in corporate America.
It was a blast.

Of course this can be true - super efficient speakers & a killer, clean 5 WPC tube amp can sound fantastic & absolutely can deliver the goods.

But we ain't talking about home audio now, are we? We're talking about car stereo. A car is hardly an audiophile's paradise when it comes to quiet, ideal listening environment. 70db+ background noise vs 40-50 in a listening room, maybe even lower?

And I don't know of any 5WPC tube amps in the car audio world nor the high quality, high efficiency speakers you'd need to get the best such an amp (if it existed) could deliver. Maybe Klipsch can capitalize on the market potential here.

We're dealing with compromises all over the place with car audio. And one way to achieve dynamics & clean sound that can overcome the car environment is thru quality, clean powerful amplification & quality speakers.

It isn't the wattage that is delivering the louder sound to my speakers - but it's surely helping in the dynamics & headroom compared to the HK amplification. And it can very easily play louder, cleaner than the HK amp can. No getting around it. You crank the HK amp & audio quality suffers & you're still fighting in-car noise from every direction.

I really hate to say that HK makes anything crappy. But the OEM sound system, while it does the job, is just not cutting it if you want as close as you can get to excellent sound quality inside a car.

Again, I will say, if you're swapping out the subs & all else being equal, might as well keep the impedance the same if not only to keep the same power driving the sub. There is ZERO reason to halve it by going with a 4 ohm sub on the same amp.

Since we don't know the sensitivity of the HK subs (if anyone does - publish the info, please!) you can't know if the 4ohm sub you're getting is any more efficient. I can guess - and I likely know - the Morel subs are more efficient because they played noticeably louder (not ear splittingly so) with the stock amps/DSP.

[matt@bavsound]

Hey, Mark here with Bavsound, thought I’d jump in!

If you're looking to boost your audio, a subwoofer system is definitely the way to go. It adds serious bass and takes some strain off your interior speakers, letting them play louder and clearer without distortion. This really cranks up the “wow” factor.

Upgrading your amp can help, but a good subwoofer makes a huge difference with those lower frequencies that give the music its depth. Our Stage One kit and Ghost subwoofer system are built to deliver killer bass and a richer sound.

The Harman Kardon system does have a solid amp and processing, giving you clean power and good EQ options. But it’s built with budget constraints, which can lead to issues like tweeter harshness, midrange clarity, and balanced bass. Our Stage One kit addresses these with premium components like woven Kevlar cones, Santoprene rubber surrounds, and silk-dome tweeters. Plus, it’s 100 percent plug-and-play, so no modifications are needed.

As for Bimmertech, we don’t want to bash our competition, but we can share some insights into the differences between our systems (we are going to be biased &#128516

In our 20 years in the BMW audio game, we've tested our speakers against stock BMW ones and BimmerTech’s Alpha One system. While BimmerTech’s Alpha One might offer more brightness due to its metal cones, our woven Kevlar components deliver a more natural sound and reduce audio fatigue. From what we can tell, they use pressed paper cones, whereas we use poly rubber cones. We opted for poly rubber to achieve tighter, punchier bass and better control, avoiding the muddiness often associated with pressed paper.

If you're considering adding an amp, you might look into the Bavsound amplifier upgrades on the secondary market, as we've discontinued them for economic reasons. Another good option is the Audiotec Fischer Match UP7. We wouldn’t recommend the JL XD600, as it’s not the best match for our setup.

We also offer a 100-day in-car trial because we're confident you'll love our upgrades—less than 2 percent of our customers return their systems due to sound quality issues. The Alpha One speakers might have a sleek look and fancy packaging, but our performance is where we truly shine.

Hope this helps!

[Ehloo]

the stock system is underpowered with some pretty crappy speakers. the Alpha system just puts more power to the stock system. the allure to it is that it’s fully plug and play.

having a full custom morel system in my other car i’m debating its its worth the time and the money. more power never hurts and extra head room always a plus.

i can say with my m2 after all my exhaust and intake mods it doesn’t make sense for me to go crazy on the audio. only time i will really hear a difference is at the stop light. plus you are adding a ton of weight.

[julioengineer]

Yes, I used the Match UP8 DSP/amp with the speakers that came with the HiFi system in my car. After tweaking a baseline audio file the sound stage imaging was opened up and centered. I tuned each speaker to open them up more and measured the distance to listening area. For it to sound perfect you need to add a sub in the trunk and run the under seat woofers as mid bass speakers. I have them crossed over at 100 - 500htz and turned up 2dbs from the fronts. The front center should be crossed over 125htz-3237khtz and 2 db up. You also need to turn the rears up 2dbs also to fill the rear and complete the imaging. I would invest in the DSP/amp and see how you like the new sound. I for one, have decided I’m not going to upgrade the speakers.

Here are the settings I used:

[yash27]

Originally Posted by matt@bavsound

Hey, Mark here with Bavsound, thought I’d jump in!

If you're looking to boost your audio, a subwoofer system is definitely the way to go. It adds serious bass and takes some strain off your interior speakers, letting them play louder and clearer without distortion. This really cranks up the “wow” factor.

Upgrading your amp can help, but a good subwoofer makes a huge difference with those lower frequencies that give the music its depth. Our Stage One kit and Ghost subwoofer system are built to deliver killer bass and a richer sound.

The Harman Kardon system does have a solid amp and processing, giving you clean power and good EQ options. But it’s built with budget constraints, which can lead to issues like tweeter harshness, midrange clarity, and balanced bass. Our Stage One kit addresses these with premium components like woven Kevlar cones, Santoprene rubber surrounds, and silk-dome tweeters. Plus, it’s 100 percent plug-and-play, so no modifications are needed.

As for Bimmertech, we don’t want to bash our competition, but we can share some insights into the differences between our systems (we are going to be biased &#128516

In our 20 years in the BMW audio game, we've tested our speakers against stock BMW ones and BimmerTech’s Alpha One system. While BimmerTech’s Alpha One might offer more brightness due to its metal cones, our woven Kevlar components deliver a more natural sound and reduce audio fatigue. From what we can tell, they use pressed paper cones, whereas we use poly rubber cones. We opted for poly rubber to achieve tighter, punchier bass and better control, avoiding the muddiness often associated with pressed paper.

If you're considering adding an amp, you might look into the Bavsound amplifier upgrades on the secondary market, as we've discontinued them for economic reasons. Another good option is the Audiotec Fischer Match UP7. We wouldn’t recommend the JL XD600, as it’s not the best match for our setup.

We also offer a 100-day in-car trial because we're confident you'll love our upgrades—less than 2 percent of our customers return their systems due to sound quality issues. The Alpha One speakers might have a sleek look and fancy packaging, but our performance is where we truly shine.

Hope this helps!

Thanks for the response. Does the bavsound stage one and the subwoofer have a break in period?

[matt@bavsound]

Originally Posted by yash27

Thanks for the response. Does the bavsound stage one and the subwoofer have a break in period?

Hey there,

Yes, there is a break-in period for the Bavsound Stage One speakers and the Ghost subwoofer. If you haven’t had them for quite some time yet, it’s totally normal if they don’t sound perfect right away. You’ll want to avoid pushing them too hard during this period to prevent distortion.

Typically, after about 10-15 hours of playtime, you’ll notice a big improvement. The rubber surrounds of the speakers will stretch out, allowing them to hit a broader range of frequencies and deliver their full potential.

If you have any more questions or need further advice, just let me know!

[curtdragon]

Can we swing back to the plug and play solutions?

I'd like something nice and easy for better sound but the primary focus of the car is to enjoy the drive.

For me if be happy with a good upgrade.
Bavsound doesn't come with an Amp anymore. Would the speaker and subs be good enough or get the alpha with an Amp?

[BroDoze]

I think I ruined my car with my loud ass exhaust, lol.

I’ve done extensive professional sound deadening and it hasn’t done much to help the exhaust resonating inside the cabin, destroying any low noise floor the sound deadening has given me. I’m starting to wonder if I need to drop the headliner and deal with the carbon roof. I think it’s the culprit. I know the answer.

Bavsound Matt, Alpha allows a la carte customization of their speakers without buying a whole kit. All I want are the front stage speakers - doors n dash, no subs. Your website doesn’t seem to allow that. Is that possible?

[yash27]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

I think I ruined my car with my loud ass exhaust, lol.

Which exhaust did you go with? Did you keep your cats?

[BroDoze]

Originally Posted by yash27

Which exhaust did you go with? Did you keep your cats?

ER H midpipes + MAD axle-back + stock down pipes.

Yes the ER midpipes remove the secondary cats.

[yash27]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

ER H midpipes + MAD axle-back + stock down pipes.

Yes the ER midpipes remove the secondary cats.

I was considering going with full valvetronic exhaust (axle back + equal length midpipe) stock dps. I'm wondering if that's also going to be way too loud then.

[BMW DIY Guy]

I can help as well, and have multiple years of experience in the Bimmertech speakers, and have DIY videos up too. Shoot me a PM, I can help.

[Kid Red]

Originally Posted by Gdubb

I have full alpha one setup as well as BimmerCode bang and olufsen profiles. Both help but the alpha one was far and away the biggest upgrade. It’s not cheap but it’s 100% worth it

I just picked up the $1799 (!!) Alpha One in my '24 X3 to replace the HK amp and wow, what a huge difference. It's like 3x the power and you definitely notice the extra volume and bass is more noticeable.

Expensive & over-priced but if you want a plug and play OEM approach that takes 1/2 hr to hook up and Bimmertech will do custom profiles for you so you don't need to know DPS stuff, it's worth it.

Also, don't forget the Alpha One is a Match DSP rebrand from what I've read. IO have the Match 7UP in my G30 and it was a pain to configure and took many many amateur tuning sessions to nail it down and that's still a $1000+ DSP. So you pay for ease of use and tuning with Alpha One.

[curtdragon]

Originally Posted by Kid Red

I just picked up the $1799 (!!) Alpha One in my '24 X3 to replace the HK amp and wow, what a huge difference. It's like 3x the power and you definitely notice the extra volume and bass is more noticeable.

Expensive & over-priced but if you want a plug and play OEM approach that takes 1/2 hr to hook up and Bimmertech will do custom profiles for you so you don't need to know DPS stuff, it's worth it.

Also, don't forget the Alpha One is a Match DSP rebrand from what I've read. IO have the Match 7UP in my G30 and it was a pain to configure and took many many amateur tuning sessions to nail it down and that's still a $1000+ DSP. So you pay for ease of use and tuning with Alpha One.

Are you saying that the tuning alone is worth $800? Because isn’t the match plug-in play and then you just have to do your own tuning? Couldn’t you essentially export the settings and give that to somebody else?

[BMW DIY Guy]

Originally Posted by Kid Red

I just picked up the $1799 (!!) Alpha One in my '24 X3 to replace the HK amp and wow, what a huge difference. It's like 3x the power and you definitely notice the extra volume and bass is more noticeable.

Expensive & over-priced but if you want a plug and play OEM approach that takes 1/2 hr to hook up and Bimmertech will do custom profiles for you so you don't need to know DPS stuff, it's worth it.

Also, don't forget the Alpha One is a Match DSP rebrand from what I've read. IO have the Match 7UP in my G30 and it was a pain to configure and took many many amateur tuning sessions to nail it down and that's still a $1000+ DSP. So you pay for ease of use and tuning with Alpha One.

Plus remember I can help with cost.

[BIGW0RM]

I must be the minority. But I did not like the BAV ghost subs in my G80 M3 at all. I immedatily removed them.

The bass totally changed from deep bass to loud and super tight punchy bass. Yes they where louder over all. But I the depth of the bass way SO much less to my ears.

Maybe if I did all speakers I would have liked it more. But just doing the subs only was not very good sounding to me. Just louder. And so much tighter sounding bass which I dont prefer. I like deeper sounding bass. Even if its not as loud.

In there defense, I had there full speaker upgrade in my F10 M5 years ago and that sounded very good! I liked that kit.

[J-RO]

Originally Posted by Kid Red

I just picked up the $1799 (!!) Alpha One in my '24 X3 to replace the HK amp and wow, what a huge difference. It's like 3x the power and you definitely notice the extra volume and bass is more noticeable.

Expensive & over-priced but if you want a plug and play OEM approach that takes 1/2 hr to hook up and Bimmertech will do custom profiles for you so you don't need to know DPS stuff, it's worth it.

Also, don't forget the Alpha One is a Match DSP rebrand from what I've read. IO have the Match 7UP in my G30 and it was a pain to configure and took many many amateur tuning sessions to nail it down and that's still a $1000+ DSP. So you pay for ease of use and tuning with Alpha One.

Sent you a PM.

[BroDoze]

I installed the front stage (Doors + Dash) Alpha One speakers a few days ago. Not much seat-time, but they sound great. I also ordered the amp and it gets here for the weekend, along with an external RF 12" sub! Should be freakin' rockin' by Sunday.
I also completed an immense amount of sound deadening in the car as well.
Now I just have to solve for my exhaust drone.

[nerdthewise]

Moderately qualified audiophile, joining late. I’m mostly into headphones, but have $60k+ and hundreds of hours testing.

Maybe I am the minority, but as soon as I coded off the piped in engine sound I found the speakers to be plenty good for the use case (read: deliberately loud car) and feel no compulsion to upgrade. Exhaust is way further up my list than any concerns over audio, but I only ever listen to music on a fast drive, otherwise the car is the worlds fastest audiobook.

I fired up BimmerCode to try to add the BW sound profiles, but couldn’t find it under any of the ‘normal mode’ modules and gave up - maybe someone can tell me what I’m missing there, surely it can’t be under expert mode?!