[OneTwo3]

This will probably launch around the time the new M4 is announced. I don't see why anyone would get an M4 when an xDrive G87 is available.

[Tag]

I have a new theory on this...

G80 EOP is 02/27 while the G82 remains in production until 06/28. G87 EOP is 07/29. If the G87 xDrive starts production on the typical time for a new model year it would be on 8/26 which means it would be in production for 2 years. That seems like an awfully short amount of time to offer a new model.

There have been some rumors circulating that MT for the G8x is going away. This is all speculation on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if at the EOP for the G80 they get rid of MT altogether for the G82 and G87. They may also offer the G87 xDrive a 1/2 earlier than the typical cadence for new model year G87. Kind of kills two birds with one stone.

Again, this is all speculation on my part but until we get more info this is what I think may happen.

[curtdragon]

Originally Posted by OneTwo3

This will probably launch around the time the new M4 is announced. I don't see why anyone would get an M4 when an xDrive G87 is available.

It's a whole class higher. If you're looking for a drivetrain then agreed. But if you're looking for a sporty car with a lot of comfort that's possible on the M4.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by Tag

I have a new theory on this...

G80 EOP is 02/27 while the G82 remains in production until 06/28. G87 EOP is 07/29. If the G87 xDrive starts production on the typical time for a new model year it would be on 8/26 which means it would be in production for 2 years. That seems like an awfully short amount of time to offer a new model.

There have been some rumors circulating that MT for the G8x is going away. This is all speculation on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if at the EOP for the G80 they get rid of MT altogether for the G82 and G87. They may also offer the G87 xDrive a 1/2 earlier than the typical cadence for new model year G87. Kind of kills two birds with one stone.

Again, this is all speculation on my part but until we get more info this is what I think may happen.

so MT intenders should likely be planning on placing orders no later than 3Q26.... got it.

[ednir98]

Originally Posted by curtdragon

It's a whole class higher.

That's a hot take.

This was the case with F8X, G-series quality and comfort is the same across the board. A few more available options on the M4 doesn't equate to a higher class.

[curtdragon]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

so MT intenders should likely be planning on placing orders no later than 3Q26.... got it.

I feel like you shouldnt have an issue finding a manual. There are a lot of them sitting around. But also if you are trying to custom order a car why wait to the last minute?

I decided to forgo the manual as this platform just isnt built for it and just get it on a car better suited for a manual (Cayman)

[curtdragon]

Originally Posted by ednir98

That's a hot take.

This was the case with F8X, G-series quality and comfort is the same across the board. A few more available options on the M4 doesn't equate to a higher class.

Have you even looked at an M4 vs M2? It's a fact that it is a higher class, not sure what the argument is. 1/2 series, 3/4 series, 5/6 series.. its just how it works man.

And then to say a few features? Take a look at the actual materials and then go look at the "few" options you dont even get to think about on the M2... for starters the interior is not the same, it's better quality material throughout, it's better quality options available, more colors available. Exterior: More colors including actual custom colors. Not getting charged $3000 for a $0 option.

I'm not going to go on because clearly you just looked at the drivetrain and think it's the same car.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by curtdragon

Have you even looked at an M4 vs M2? It's a fact that it is a higher class, not sure what the argument is. 1/2 series, 3/4 series, 5/6 series.. its just how it works man.

And then to say a few features? Take a look at the actual materials and then go look at the "few" options you dont even get to think about on the M2... for starters the interior is not the same, it's better quality material throughout, it's better quality options available, more colors available. Exterior: More colors including actual custom colors. Not getting charged $3000 for a $0 option.

I'm not going to go on because clearly you just looked at the drivetrain and think it's the same car.

G80/2 also have optional 3D cameras, something I wish the M2 had. It's not enough to make most jump to the M3/4 but it does sour many. Don't know why they won't give the M2 3D cameras. They did the same with the F87. They are optional on the G42, but on the top of the line model 2 series, the M2, we get shafted.

[ednir98]

Originally Posted by curtdragon

Have you even looked at an M4 vs M2?

Yes, I've taken a look pal, maybe even a few. With your logic the XM is the best car BMW makes since it's the biggest, most expensive.

[curtdragon]

Originally Posted by Tag

G80/2 also have optional 3D cameras, something I wish the M2 had. It's not enough to make most jump to the M3/4 but it does sour many. Don't know why they won't give the M2 3D cameras. They did the same with the F87. They are optional on the G42, but on the top of the line model 2 series, the M2, we get shafted.

If I tried optioning an M4 like the M2 it jumps from 80 to 105 really fast.
Also i believe that's an option on the M240 so definitely weird.

[curtdragon]

Originally Posted by ednir98

Yes, I've taken a look pal, maybe even a few. With your logic the XM is the best car BMW makes since it's the biggest, most expensive.

LMAO you don't even know what logic is.
I'm bowing out of this because you're clearly being dense on purpose.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by curtdragon

I feel like you shouldnt have an issue finding a manual. There are a lot of them sitting around. But also if you are trying to custom order a car why wait to the last minute?

I decided to forgo the manual as this platform just isnt built for it and just get it on a car better suited for a manual (Cayman)

once the "last of the manual M cars" is finalized, who knows what will happen to the supply/demand dynamics. i've already got one, and may want to get one more before the curtain drops. mine has 15k miles in 10 months so i am definitely not holding anything back...

disagree, G87 is better with the manual. i'd never buy any cayman under a GTS and am, in general, not a P-car fan with specific exceptions. dropping a GT4 on the back straight at mid ohio and then keeping them behind me through madness did make me LOL quite mightily tho

[curtdragon]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

once the "last of the manual M cars" is finalized, who knows what will happen to the supply/demand dynamics. i've already got one, and may want to get one more before the curtain drops. mine has 15k miles in 10 months so i am definitely not holding anything back...

disagree, G87 is better with the manual. i'd never buy any cayman under a GTS and am, in general, not a P-car fan with specific exceptions. dropping a GT4 on the back straight at mid ohio and then keeping them behind me through madness did make me LOL quite mightily tho

Yeah I was talking about the GTS or GT4.
I have read mixed reviews on the manual, it's 100% not made for this chassis so I agree with the part that it isnt right for the power band. It's the same that was used on the F chassis and the G is nothing like it. Stock is has some stupid valve that makes shifting floaty and needs a bushing change to make it not feel rubbery.

The auto keeps everything in the current powerband. But when you talk about engagement then yeah manual over auto in that case. I just personally rather go crazy over a better setup. When people talk about good manuals the BMW isnt on that list

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by curtdragon

Yeah I was talking about the GTS or GT4.
I have read mixed reviews on the manual, it's 100% not made for this chassis so I agree with the part that it isnt right for the power band. It's the same that was used on the F chassis and the G is nothing like it. Stock is has some stupid valve that makes shifting floaty and needs a bushing change to make it not feel rubbery.

The auto keeps everything in the current powerband. But when you talk about engagement then yeah manual over auto in that case. I just personally rather go crazy over a better setup. When people talk about good manuals the BMW isnt on that list

it's your money and your car, but after 10 months with the 6 speed i can say pretty much without reservation that its a fine partner for *most* situations you can get the car in. gearing is a little long, yeah, it would benefit from a seventh gear, but i find the shifting action and shifter/clutch relationship better than my B8 audi but worse than pretty much any 6 speed honda product. but on the flip side if i wanted the fastest automatic platform i could drive i'd probably not be look at an M2 at all.

if i was obsessed with getting THE pinnacle RWD manual setup for a reasonable daily driver i would be in a SS 1LE or ZL1. SS should be a bit faster in the same drivers hands around a track than a G87 (and the ZL1 can obviously whoop on some pretty serious metal)

but as always, YMMV. im pretty pleased with the M2 6 speed for the 98% street driving that i do, and any more than 5% of time at the track would warrant a dedicated/semi-dedicated track car in my eyes anyway (and one that doesnt eat $600 brake pads and $1400 worth of tires in a blink)

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by curtdragon

Have you even looked at an M4 vs M2? It's a fact that it is a higher class, not sure what the argument is. 1/2 series, 3/4 series, 5/6 series.. its just how it works man.

And then to say a few features? Take a look at the actual materials and then go look at the "few" options you dont even get to think about on the M2... for starters the interior is not the same, it's better quality material throughout, it's better quality options available, more colors available. Exterior: More colors including actual custom colors. Not getting charged $3000 for a $0 option.

I'm not going to go on because clearly you just looked at the drivetrain and think it's the same car.

The only difference in material qualities is the M4 gets merino leather vs the vernasca leather in the M2. Everything else is exactly the same. The interior trim is the same, the cf interior bits are the same, shifter the same, dash, etc.

My wife has an X3MC with nearly every option including executive pkg - everything in the interior is the same as my M2 with the exception of the extended merino leather interior.

The only different options available on an M4 include: ventilated seats, carbon ceramic brakes, power tailgate, sensatec dash, & some cheap-looking electro-plated buttons for $100.

The ventilated seats in my wife's don't really do much, so wouldn't option those, sensatec dash (who cares), shiny buttons - no thanks. I'd take carbon ceramic brakes, but the standard brakes work great (swap pads for little to no dust). Power tailgate - I can open my own trunk.

[Dégoûté]

Propaganda

[curtdragon]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

it's your money and your car, but after 10 months with the 6 speed i can say pretty much without reservation that its a fine partner for *most* situations you can get the car in. gearing is a little long, yeah, it would benefit from a seventh gear, but i find the shifting action and shifter/clutch relationship better than my B8 audi but worse than pretty much any 6 speed honda product. but on the flip side if i wanted the fastest automatic platform i could drive i'd probably not be look at an M2 at all.

if i was obsessed with getting THE pinnacle RWD manual setup for a reasonable daily driver i would be in a SS 1LE or ZL1. SS should be a bit faster in the same drivers hands around a track (and the ZL1 can obviously whoop on some pretty serious metal)

but as always, YMMV. im pretty pleased with the M2 6 speed for the 98% street driving that i do, and any more than 5% of time at the track would warrant a dedicated/semi-dedicated track car in my eyes anyway (and one that doesnt eat $600 brake pads and $1400 worth of tires in a blink anyway)

Good input. The plan is a Cayman GTS/4 a few years in the future. But I am comparing vs those Honda boxes as you mentioned. I want to say 90% of my driving. I am not worried about traffic. I go into the office which is downtown Nashville, but it’s essentially just one little stretch of the highway where I always see congestion no matter what time of day or where in Nashville that I’m going, I have to go through this one little 2 mile section where the 22 major highways connect and then split. It’s funny you talked about a B8 S4. I actually had a B8.5 with the DSG and one of the things that I thought about when I drove the M2 was that it felt under powered because I had a stage two ultra charger, and when you’re running the auto it’s just step on and you go. You don’t have to worry about being in the right gear and revving it up and also is supercharger versus turbo charger. My other thoughts about it is that I do want to modify it, and I know the clutch is already at its torque limit, so it would be another additional cost to adding more power. And I’m not gonna go crazy. I thought about big power, but it doesn’t make sense so I’d be good with a ethanol tune with bolt ons. i’ve read that any power increase the clutch starts slipping. So that’s another fact pointing to the fact that the transmission set up was not designed for this car like there’s zero room for power you know people talk about if they just put a JB4 and starts slipping
My build isn't locked so I still have time to think about switching. Maybe I just get the manual enjoy it stock for a while as I would anyway and figure out the clutch if needed

[fzr100098]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

if i was obsessed with getting THE pinnacle RWD manual setup for a reasonable daily driver i would be in a SS 1LE or ZL1. SS should be a bit faster in the same drivers hands around a track (and the ZL1 can obviously whoop on some pretty serious metal)

ZL1 1LE has a much better lap time on C&D Lightning Lap

I owned both an SS and ZL1 - they are fun, brute cars but have limited tuning potential because of the small supercharger which easily heat soaks. Stock ZL1 is ~560 rwhp on a dyno, stock SS is about 410-420. I would expect the 2025 M2 with an auto to match or beat an SS on track and not far off the standard ZL1 time. The M2 is 600 rwhp with a flash tune, modding a Camaro is much more expensive (Maggy blower etc) and would probably lose value faster (to be determined), Camaro interior is very clunky

The manual trans in the M2 is too weak to support higher power levels - for that reason alone it's not even a consideration for me (and yes I have many years of rowing and I know what I'm missing, the "not man enough" sh*t cracks me up)

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by curtdragon

Good input. The plan is a Cayman GTS/4 a few years in the future. But I am comparing vs those Honda boxes as you mentioned. I want to say 90% of my driving. I am not worried about traffic. I go into the office which is downtown Nashville, but it’s essentially just one little stretch of the highway where I always see congestion no matter what time of day or where in Nashville that I’m going, I have to go through this one little 2 mile section where the 22 major highways connect and then split. It’s funny you talked about a B8 S4. I actually had a B8.5 with the DSG and one of the things that I thought about when I drove the M2 was that it felt under powered because I had a stage two ultra charger, and when you’re running the auto it’s just step on and you go. You don’t have to worry about being in the right gear and revving it up and also is supercharger versus turbo charger. My other thoughts about it is that I do want to modify it, and I know the clutch is already at its torque limit, so it would be another additional cost to adding more power. And I’m not gonna go crazy. I thought about big power, but it doesn’t make sense so I’d be good with a ethanol tune with bolt ons. i’ve read that any power increase the clutch starts slipping. So that’s another fact pointing to the fact that the transmission set up was not designed for this car like there’s zero room for power you know people talk about if they just put a JB4 and starts slipping
My build isn't locked so I still have time to think about switching. Maybe I just get the manual enjoy it stock for a while as I would anyway and figure out the clutch if needed

the "dont worry about gear choice and just boot it" element of the B8 S4 was actually awesome, as was the supercharger whine, but really that ended up being the only things in the driving experience that i liked. loved the looks and the sizing, disliked the manual and the steering. DSG probably would have been a better choice.

it all depends on your usecase, as i think i have said in this thread before. i personally need no more power out of this platform for how i use it and the roads i drive on, and i prefer stick in my road cars so it was an easy choice for me. but i am odd man out of some of these opinions, i also love the stock suspension ride/handling balance (its pretty magical IMHO) and ride height which might be me booed out of town.

Originally Posted by fzr100098

ZL1 1LE has a much better lap time on C&D Lightning Lap

I owned both an SS and ZL1 - they are fun, brute cars but have limited tuning potential because of the small supercharger which easily heat soaks. Stock ZL1 is ~560 rwhp on a dyno, stock SS is about 410-420. I would expect the 2025 M2 with an auto to match or beat an SS on track and not far off the standard ZL1 time. The M2 is 600 rwhp with a flash tune, modding a Camaro is much more expensive (Maggy blower etc) and would probably lose value faster (to be determined), Camaro interior is very clunky

The manual trans in the M2 is too weak to support higher power levels - for that reason alone it's not even a consideration for me (and yes I have many years of rowing and I know what I'm missing, the "not man enough" sh*t cracks me up)

i realize my statement wasnt clear so i edited it- the SS 1LE should be, stock for stock and same driver, a bit faster than the M2. theres a couple track folks around here who did the same move as you and i am pretty sure that's their experience (i think one is wjones14 ) but maybe i got it backwards. also i trust lightening lap times about as much as i trust emails from a nigerian prince (so, not at all).

i find it highly, highly unlikely the a ZL1 depreciates worse than an M2- M2s faring pretty poorly in this arena for now.

transmission choice is totally dependent on use case. if you want big power its a no brainer.

[fzr100098]

Used ZL1s in low 50s are common, so I'll leave it at that - fun cars with the immediate torque but known for oil blowby (catch can required) and valve guide issues. GM is still mid pack

C8 Z06 when they get into the high 80s

[curtdragon]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

i realize my statement wasnt clear so i edited it- the SS 1LE should be, stock for stock and same driver, a bit faster than the M2. theres a couple track folks around here who did the same move as you and i am pretty sure that's their experience (i think one is wjones14 ) but maybe i got it backwards. also i trust lightening lap times about as much as i trust emails from a nigerian prince (so, not at all).

i find it highly, highly unlikely the a ZL1 depreciates worse than an M2- M2s faring pretty poorly in this arena for now.

transmission choice is totally dependent on use case. if you want big power its a no brainer.

You might have convinced me to go 6 speed. Changed it but I have time before I can't make any changes

[LRSD]

I owned a 2022 Toyota Supra 3.0 premium with the auto, and sold it after 6 months For me auto’s aren’t engaging enough. I hope my 2025 m2 I ordered lives up to my expectations.
“Fingers crossed”