[FrankMstein]

Gas prices are SUCH a racket. My wife drives a cooper s and thankfully asks if it's ok to buy this or that fuel. I have pounded it into her head that crap fuel is bad. BTW BP is now not on the TT list for about a year.

[SnowCover]

there are two Shell stations near me, both owned by the same owner. it makes me kind of nervous because they almost always have the cheapest premium gas in town. (Costco is actually cheaper by another 10 cents per gallon, but that required membership)

my question is: are all Shell gas station selling the same Shell premium gasoline?

[pbonsalb]

The big name brands are better about standardization and maintaining the quality of their franchisees, but nothing is guaranteed. Buy some and send a sample out for testing if you have legitimate enough concerns to warrant the investment. Assuming you are wrong, the savings by using the station once you are confident should pay for the testing after about 1000 gallons.

[David70]

Gas in virtually every area of the country gets to the local tank farm (where tank trailers load) by pipeline or ship. It comes in at a standard grade, brand additives are injected by specific oil companies brand, often as the tank trailer is loaded. Shell 93 octane base gas is the same as everyone else's 93 base gas, Shell additives are different than BP's. Never seen someone prove one is better than the other but Shell's marketing has most believing for some reason it is better.

"Top Tier" is an independent certification company. If the brand pays them AND their gasoline meets "Top Tier's" requirements they can call themselves "Top Tier". If another company decides to not pay Top Tier, it doesn't necessarily mean their gas/additives are any better or worse than the certified bunch. I also have never seen someone prove that after some point that more cleaning additives are needed.

When you go to an independent, non branded station you could be getting Shell/BP, or whatever else that happens to be cheapest that day. Base gasoline is the same for all.

I've worked in the petroleum transportation industry for over 30 years.

[FrankMstein]

Originally Posted by David70

Gas in virtually every area of the country gets to the local tank farm (where tank trailers load) by pipeline. It comes in at a standard grade, brand additives are injected by specific oil companies brand, often as the tank trailer is loaded. Shell 93 octane base gas is the same as everyone else's 93 base gas, Shell additives are different than BP's. Never seen someone prove one is better than the other but Shell's marketing has most believing for some reason it is better.

"Top Tier" is an independent certification company. If the brand pays them AND their gasoline meets "Top Tier's" requirements they can call themselves "Top Tier". If another company decides to not pay Top Tier, it doesn't necessarily mean their gas/additives are any better or worse than the certified bunch. I also have never seen someone prove that after some point that more cleaning additives are needed.

When you go to an independent, non branded station you could be getting Shell/BP, or whatever else that happens to be cheapest that day. Base gasoline is the same for all.

I've worked in the petroleum transportation industry for over 30 years.

toptiergas.com

[David70]

Originally Posted by FrankMstein

toptiergas.com

And?

[Onizukachan]

I prefered chevron when I had a high mileage Sulev as the Techron kept the unreplaceable fuel gauge sender mostly working. Other than that, what @David70 said is correct, gas is gas and all comes from the exact same place…the difference is the additives each company puts in.

[David70]

There are 229,888 miles of U.S. oil, refined products, CO2, and natural gas liquids pipelines. This includes over 80,000 miles of crude oil pipelines, over 70,000 natural gas liquids pipeline miles, over 62,000 miles of petroleum products pipeline, and 5,300 miles of CO2 pipeline.

They aren't separating it by brand.

[FrankMstein]

Originally Posted by David70

And?

Did you go there?

[FrankMstein]

Originally Posted by David70

Attachment 3570911

There are 229,888 miles of U.S. oil, refined products, CO2, and natural gas liquids pipelines. This includes over 80,000 miles of crude oil pipelines, over 70,000 natural gas liquids pipeline miles, over 62,000 miles of petroleum products pipeline, and 5,300 miles of CO2 pipeline.

They aren't separating it by brand.

What comes out of the pump at the local fuel station brand "A" is not the same as the other brand "B". But you knew that. Going to the refinery it is. You knew that too.

[David70]

Originally Posted by FrankMstein

Did you go there?

Yes. Seems like you want to find something but not enough to just tell me?

[GOFAST M3]

Originally Posted by SnowCover

there are two Shell stations near me, both owned by the same owner. it makes me kind of nervous because they almost always have the cheapest premium gas in town. (Costco is actually cheaper by another 10 cents per gallon, but that required membership)

my question is: are all Shell gas station selling the same Shell premium gasoline?

Shell Branded stations are contractually obligated to only sell fuel that has been additized with Shell's proprietary additive.

These things are tracked and monitored from the start to the end point at the stations to ensure the most efficient operational tolerances as possible, as is also contractual through the supply chain.

It would be difficult, and not financially worth the risk, to try and skirt their contractual obligations and sell 'unbranded' fuel as 'Shell' fuel, but the chances aren't zero.

I will say, as long as you are buying Premium Branded fuel from Shell, Chevron, or Exxon, you will be satisfying BMWs intention when recommending Shell gas. The branded additives are superior to the standard additives that go in to unbranded fuel.

Chevron has always given me the best mileage, but whichever of the 3 is cheapest/convenient is fine.

[GOFAST M3]

Originally Posted by FrankMstein

Did you go there?

Originally Posted by FrankMstein

What comes out of the pump at the local fuel station brand "A" is not the same as the other brand "B". But you knew that. Going to the refinery it is. You knew that too.

Top Tier fits nicely in between unbranded and any of the three Major Brands.

Better than the base unbranded for sure, but I am not sure what it sells for at the pump compared to a local Shell, Chevron etc, so I am not really sure if it's worth it.

[SnowCover]

Originally Posted by GOFAST M3

Shell Branded stations are contractually obligated to only sell fuel that has been additized with Shell's proprietary additive.

These things are tracked and monitored from the start to the end point at the stations to ensure the most efficient operational tolerances as possible, as is also contractual through the supply chain.

It would be difficult, and not financially worth the risk, to try and skirt their contractual obligations and sell 'unbranded' fuel as 'Shell' fuel, but the chances aren't zero.

I will say, as long as you are buying Premium Branded fuel from Shell, Chevron, or Exxon, you will be satisfying BMWs intention when recommending Shell gas. The branded additives are superior to the standard additives that go in to unbranded fuel.

Chevron has always given me the best mileage, but whichever of the 3 is cheapest/convenient is fine.

Thanks! What about those small dark blue bottles of gas additive that BMW sells at BMW parts departments? Are they even worth it? Or am I better off just buying Techron from Chevron?

[Jbrown7403]

I’m just happy getting 93 octane at Sam’s Club for $2.89 yesterday. 👍

[pbonsalb]

In what state is that Sam’s Club selling 93 for $2.89? My state has not raised gas taxes in decades and it is more like $3.89.

[FrankMstein]

Originally Posted by GOFAST M3

Top Tier fits nicely in between unbranded and any of the three Major Brands.

Better than the base unbranded for sure, but I am not sure what it sells for at the pump compared to a local Shell, Chevron etc, so I am not really sure if it's worth it.

Are the top three not TT? Who are then then? What is "unbranded" to you?

[GOFAST M3]

Originally Posted by SnowCover

Thanks! What about those small dark blue bottles of gas additive that BMW sells at BMW parts departments? Are they even worth it? Or am I better off just buying Techron from Chevron?

You are better off just buying quality fuel from one of the 3 Major Brands.

Some unbranded gasoline here and there isn't going to hurt anything. There is a QT across the street from my neighborhood that I will grab a few gallons from when I am in a rush, very rarely and no concerns with that at all.

Long term use just shows the Branded stuff burns cleaner and performs better.

[GOFAST M3]

Originally Posted by FrankMstein

Are the top three not TT? Who are then then? What is "unbranded" to you?

The 3 Majors stand alone essentially, each has their own formulated additive, which each have their own molecular makeup, all being unique in properties while still being similar of course .


Take for example's sake, Chevron's Pascagoula MS Refinery, which has a truck rack for filling gas trucks.

Chevron will sell fuel to many different companies.

Chevron will keep a 'generic' additive for use with all unbranded and Top Tier gasoline. Anyone doing business with Chevron can bring a truck and buy this gasoline with generic additive.

Top Tier gets the same generic stuff, just a 250-300% dose compared to non Top Tier. More of the detergents and agents that improve performance and cleanliness is definately a good thing.


Then Chevron will also have the proprietary additive(s) for Shell, Exxon, and Chevron, and ONLY distributors authorized by these companies can bring a truck and load this fuel, with a proprietary additive.


Based on the above, I would say all gasoline not sold under a Major Brand is 'unbranded' whether TT or not.

76 Gasoline Stations are an example of a Top Tier station. 76 is Top Tier, and then all groceries stores, Costcos, QT, Sunoco, etc are just normal unbranded.

I think BP would qualify as Branded, and has proprietary additive, but I work the Gulf Coast and they have no real presence in my market so I am not 100% sure.

Hope this makes sense, industry lingo isnt helpful when discussing from the consumer standpoint, so hopefully this was helpful.

[FrankMstein]

Originally Posted by GOFAST M3

The 3 Majors stand alone essentially, each has their own formulated additive, which each have their own molecular makeup, all being unique in properties while still being similar of course .


Take for example's sake, Chevron's Pascagoula MS Refinery, which has a truck rack for filling gas trucks.

Chevron will sell fuel to many different companies.

Chevron will keep a 'generic' additive for use with all unbranded and Top Tier gasoline. Anyone doing business with Chevron can bring a truck and buy this gasoline with generic additive.

Top Tier gets the same generic stuff, just a 250-300% dose compared to non Top Tier. More of the detergents and agents that improve performance and cleanliness is definately a good thing.


Then Chevron will also have the proprietary additive(s) for Shell, Exxon, and Chevron, and ONLY distributors authorized by these companies can bring a truck and load this fuel, with a proprietary additive.


Based on the above, I would say all gasoline not sold under a Major Brand is 'unbranded' whether TT or not.

76 Gasoline Stations are an example of a Top Tier station. 76 is Top Tier, and then all groceries stores, Costcos, QT, Sunoco, etc are just normal unbranded.

I think BP would qualify as Branded, and has proprietary additive, but I work the Gulf Coast and they have no real presence in my market so I am not 100% sure.

Hope this makes sense, industry lingo isnt helpful when discussing from the consumer standpoint, so hopefully this was helpful.

However BP fell off the TT list almost a year ago...
Sunoco has been around for a century and I wouldn't classify it as unbranded.

[Westside Guy]

Originally Posted by FrankMstein

However BP fell off the TT list almost a year ago...
Sunoco has been around for a century and I wouldn't classify it as unbranded.

I agree, since when is Sunoco considered unbranded?

[David70]

The "unbranded"/"branded" discussion is interesting but if you sell a fuel under a brand name it is branded. There is a long list of branded fuel, they may not be the largest companies in the industry but they are still selling a brand & anytime you go to one of their stations you get their brand of additive. You go to an unbranded station, often your local convenience store & it is unbranded.

BP is no longer on the Top Tier list, I doubt it is because the formulation changed. One reason could be they don't want to pay Top Tier to be on the list. If Top Tier was a neutral, 3rd party, testing all types of fuel, not being paid by the brand it would mean a lot more. Only thing you can tell from Top Tier is if you pay them & you meet their requirements you will be on the list. Another non Top Tier could be better, we don't know.

Costco is unbranded but Top Tier, BP is a brand but not Top Tier, your local convenience store is unbranded and not Top Tier, as to which one is needed for your daily driver I have no idea and best I can tell nobody has even attempted to prove it.

My wife and I are daily driving 12 year old cars, they have no fuel problems so I am assuming the miss mash of fuel was good enough. We mostly buy fuel at Kroger (unbranded, not Top Tier) and Costco (unbranded, Top Tier).