[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

As much as I hate to admit it, the first gen Z4 was always a really well built car. Not fast, but engaging. Good chassis, and quick on its feet, and everything always felt nice in them. Really spectacular build quality in them.

But every performance metric they got walloped by even a base C5 Corvette or late C4, let alone a C6 of its vintage, but that's the price you pay for a well built "thrill of driving" roadster vs a full on performance car.

Well said. I feel like the "thrill of driving" has been largely lost to which car has the best acceleration, power, and lap stats and also at the expense of lots of refinement and over .

There is really something to be said for a car that you somewhat safely hustle at 7/10ths+ on a B road and even have fun on your 3 mile jaunt to grab a coffee at legal speeds while mildly driving a bit like an a-hole. If every time you get in the car, the drive is an "experience" then you know you've found the right car, IMO.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Why not? It's like getting a 911 for Z4 money. Plus no risk of rust.

It's just a much bigger car. It's fast and grippy but it's not playful.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

See i'd never consider a vette for the street vs a Z4M.

The C8 Z51 is the one to get for that IMO. Performance package enough to put out insane lap times compared to stuff that costs similar, but not so brutal or expensive. Sure, there's the Z06 and higher trims siting out there...but if you are going to drive to 10/10ths that's where those come in IMO. The C8 does great up to 9/10ths and I think the main complaint was the brake-by-wire calibration, but overall extremely sorted and great for street is what I've gotten. And you have torque for days.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

It's just a much bigger car. It's fast and grippy but it's not playful.

It's VERY playful with the nannies off. Super well balanced chassis, and very easy to slide around. But it also has way more power so things are higher stake.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by RM7

The C8 Z51 is the one to get for that IMO. Performance package enough to put out insane lap times compared to stuff that costs similar, but not so brutal or expensive. Sure, there's the Z06 and higher trims siting out there...but if you are going to drive to 10/10ths that's where those come in IMO. The C8 does great up to 9/10ths and I think the main complaint was the brake-by-wire calibration, but overall extremely sorted and great for street is what I've gotten. And you have torque for days.

Except it's a total snooze to drive. Plus it's automatic only, which is the opposite of fun.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Except it's a total snooze to drive. Plus it's automatic only, which is the opposite of fun.

Me thinks you don't like turns? Just fast in straight lines?

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by RM7

Me thinks you don't like turns? Just fast in straight lines?

Total opposite actually. I like a car that rotates the rear end with some oversteer in a turn... Or a lot of oversteer. I don't like mod engine cars that understeer like the C8, and I don't like cars that are numbers over driving pleasure like the C8.

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Well said. I feel like the "thrill of driving" has been largely lost to which car has the best acceleration, power, and lap stats and also at the expense of lots of refinement and over .

There is really something to be said for a car that you somewhat safely hustle at 7/10ths+ on a B road and even have fun on your 3 mile jaunt to grab a coffee at legal speeds while mildly driving a bit like an a-hole. If every time you get in the car, the drive is an "experience" then you know you've found the right car, IMO.

I love my Miata. It's my 6th Miata. No interest in a Z4M now. Although, I almost bought one when they were fairly new after a test drive.

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

The answer here is usually Golf R

What year & what are they going for?

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

E86 M Coupe is my vote if we are now looking at 35 year old E30. 🤣🤣🤣

But seriously, the E86 is so fickin stiff, the body just does not flex. A great platform. My 2 cents.

Doesn't do anything for me. An E46 M3 does do something for me, but RWD so does not meet my winter driver criteria

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Completely different cars, the vette is like twice the size. A Z4M packs a decent punch from a overly straight 6 and is inherently fun to drive.

That's like comparing a Miata to the Vette as well lol

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Donatello.

What year & what are they going for?

Honestly I don't know much about them as I refuse to own a RWD "fun" car but they were stupid expensive for years. However things may have changed with the recent downturn.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Honestly I don't know much about them as I refuse to own a RWD "fun" car but they were stupid expensive for years. However things may have changed with the recent downturn.

I think they just had their last year with a manual, so prices of used manuals are likely high.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

As much as I hate to admit it, the first gen Z4 was always a really well built car. Not fast, but engaging. Good chassis, and quick on its feet, and everything always felt nice in them. Really spectacular build quality in them.

But every performance metric they got walloped by even a base C5 Corvette or late C4, let alone a C6 of its vintage, but that's the price you pay for a well built "thrill of driving" roadster vs a full on performance car.

After reading this, I checked performance numbers of 2008 Base Vette coupe against the 2008 Z4M coupe. The internet numbers say the Vette is 4.5 to 60 mph and the Z4M is 4.8. On some of the same tracks, the Vette is between .2 to .5 seconds faster. I'd not call that "walloped". For a car as a toy for street use, the deltas are immaterial. And the Z4M Coupe is incredibly rare compared to a Corvette.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Donatello.

Doesn't do anything for me. An E46 M3 does do something for me, but RWD so does not meet my winter driver criteria

The E46 M3 and Z4M coupe are literally the same car underneath.

[Alfisti]

The vette and the Z4 are just different cars.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The E46 M3 and Z4M coupe are literally the same car underneath.

Yea but the driving experience couldn't be more different (I own a Z4MR). Sure, same engine, similar brakes ect.... but the driving position alone makes it feel like a completely different animal.

I've said it in so many threads, but you can pick up a good Z4MR for under $20k. That's a bargain when you compare to what E46 M3's are going for.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

After reading this, I checked performance numbers of 2008 Base Vette coupe against the 2008 Z4M coupe. The internet numbers say the Vette is 4.5 to 60 mph and the Z4M is 4.8. On some of the same tracks, the Vette is between .2 to .5 seconds faster. I'd not call that "walloped". For a car as a toy for street use, the deltas are immaterial. And the Z4M Coupe is incredibly rare compared to a Corvette.

4.5? That's... Wildly conservative. It's been a while since I've had a narrow body car, but Grand Sports are usually like 4 flat. Lots of debate on if the narrow body is slower or faster, but the general consensus it's it's barely slower than the GS, but harder to launch.

The Z4M is definitely rarer, and infinitely less reliable motor wise. Corvette parts are plentiful and cheap. Anything you want to upgrade, you can, for a reasonable price. Want to make 600hp? No problem, buy a blower and long tubes for $7500. Want more grip? Buy wide rear fenders in CF for under a grand and new wheels and tires.

Personally, I don't see rarity as a good thing. Rare things cost more to fix and are typically harder to get parts for.

[Efthreeoh]

From a September 2024 post I found over at the ZPost Forum...

"Lastly ... for those interested (possibly no one haha, this is long to feel free to skip), a little about how I landed on an M Roadster. Many of my friends / family were surprised that I "downgraded" from a C7 Corvette to a much older, slower car with less features and tech. I simply tell them ... you have to drive one!! I had about two months in between contracts at work, where work was incredibly slow. After doing everything else I could think of, I thought ... why don't I line up some test drives, just for fun, just to expereince some other cars? During this time, I drove 997 911, 991 911, 981 Boxster, 987 Boxster, Aston V8 Vantage, S2000, ND Miata, E46 M3, F80 M4, Camaro6, F-Type V6 S, Lotus Evora, gen 2 Dodge Viper, C6 427 Corvette, R57 Mini Cooper JCW, and of course my own C7 Corvette Stingray. These cars are all special and amazing in their own way, but only one got in my head, stayed with me, and really made me question whether I was in the right car ... and that of couse was the M Roadster. After every other test drive, even the likes of 911s and V8 Vantage, I would think "yeah, that car did some amazing things ... but give me back the keys to my Vette". But not the M Roadster, I just couldn't get it out of my head. It's tossable size, short gearing, small stearing wheel, screaming S54, pefect amount of power to enjoy on public roads, very quick steering, and that BMW frantic / high-strung feeling all combined for a driving experience that just won me over. After a few nights trying to talk myself out of it, the M Roadster was mine, and the Vette had to go. I couldn't believe it - had you asked me two weeks ago, I would have said "I love my C7 and it's not going anywhere". Yet, here we are."

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

4.5? That's... Wildly conservative. It's been a while since I've had a narrow body car, but Grand Sports are usually like 4 flat. Lots of debate on if the narrow body is slower or faster, but the general consensus it's it's barely slower than the GS, but harder to launch.

The Z4M is definitely rarer, and infinitely less reliable motor wise. Corvette parts are plentiful and cheap. Anything you want to upgrade, you can, for a reasonable price. Want to make 600hp? No problem, buy a blower and long tubes for $7500. Want more grip? Buy wide rear fenders in CF for under a grand and new wheels and tires.

Personally, I don't see rarity as a good thing. Rare things cost more to fix and are typically harder to get parts for.

I'll keep the goal posts at the back of the end zone where they are supposed to remain...

The Z4M underneath is not rare, it's mostly E46/E46 M3 parts, which BMW keeps available decades after the last production year. And Z4s really don't break much. I've had a non-M Coupe since December 2014, and as with all my other BMWs, I've had for the last 36 years It's rare when I've not been able to buy OE parts (recently BMW stopped selling the mud guards and Coupe trunk mat - yikes!). My 27 year old Z3 still has most of its parts still available from BMW as OE parts; I just installed OE brake hoses about 6 months ago.

As compred to my very rare 2009 Hummer H3T, GM has discontinued some critical chassis parts that are subject to corrosion (because of the shit job GM does with corrosion protection). I've repaired the frame twice already with new metal welded in. But the front control arms are NLA as are the bump stops, rear diff cover, rear brake backing plates, I could go on...

I'll take a rare BMW as a toy over a GM product any day of the week.

[BlkGS]

GM might not make the parts, but 100 aftermarket companies do.

I can't relate to rust issues. It's a non issue where I've lived. That said, I wouldn't be surprised that an H3T rists more than a lightweight 2 door car, lol. When it's shitty out and there's snow and salt and what it on the roads, you're probably more likely to drive the Hummer than the low to the ground BMW.

FWIW, I had a Colorado which was effectively the same vehicle underneath, no rust issues while I had it. The old boomers on the Corvette sites always complain about how they can't just roll in to the dealership and them have a random part for their 15 year old car sitting on the shelf waiting for them. I think that's insane. I don't expect the manufacturer to sell these parts, unless nobody else is.

As an aside, rockauto has all the control arms for that truck you could want. Multiple brands and levels too. They also have GM bump stops (but you could buy any number of bump stops aftermarket, I run polyurethane bell techs bump stops on my trailblazer which appears to use the same ones). I suspect the rear diff is just an off the shelf diff, so there's likely a ton of options if it's just a Dana or something. Brake backing plates, I'd be tempted to see if trailblazer parts fit. Most Colorado's had rear drums, and using the H3 rear discs was a semi popular upgrade (as was the floor mounted shifter). But the gmt355 was very similar to the trailblazer gmt360, so those backing plates might fit.

[Alfisti]

I'll say it again, as a man who cross-shopped a Mustang PP2 Cab against a 997 cab, I feel the vette and Z4 cabs are very different cars.