[Squidget]

Yeah, this is a false division. There are a LOT of people who like both muscle and german cars. I've owned both, I have friends who have owned both.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Yeah, this is a false division. There are a LOT of people who like both muscle and german cars. I've owned both, I have friends who have owned both.

the reality is that the G87 is attracting car people of all types from all backgrounds as enthusiasts, and in particular ICE enthusiasts, are forced into the small funnel of less choices. thats why you rub elbows with all sorts of people here running the gamut of car history.

and to me thats how i know we are all well positioned - theres a huge amount of people rallying around this platform leading to a robust knowledge base and aftermarket. pretty cool to watch unfold in real time!

[BroDoze]

This sounds strange, but I spent a week in a rental POS Charger. It was spending a week with that wonderful ZF8 that actually opened me up to the ZF8 I ended up going with on my 2025 M2. Obviously the implementation/software of the ZF8 is miles better in the M2 than a base Charger, but it got the ball rolling on a ton of M2/M3/M4 ZF8 / Manual comparison test drives and I don't regret my decision AT ALL. Other than that, you can take your American muscle cars.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by minn19

Add me to the weirdo list, have had a lot of BMWs, Porsches, MB, Mustangs, Camaros, one Z06 and a 4V BW Blackwing etc. Ford and Chevy chassis are awesome, add mag ride to them and more often than not they are better than BMWs a majority of the time and actually have steering feel.

Where the domestics fall way short is in service and dealership experience. My two GT350s were awesome drivers cars, but nightmares when it came to reliability. I know many have similar stories with BMW (I have one), but if you have a problem at least you drive out in a nice BMW loaner. GM and Ford dealers often don’t offer loaners and if they do it’s a beat up Fiesta (at that time) or a Malibu.

I’m sorry, if you are a real car enthusiast why wouldn’t cross shop these cars? Had my history with Ford not been so bad across the board reliability wise with not just the GT350s, but my past F-150s…..I very well may have bought a Dark Horse. Both the M2 and DH are awesome cars.

Real car enthusiasts check out cool cars regardless of whats on the hood. I can’t stand badge whores whether it is redneck Ford/GM owners or snobby German (especially Porsche) drivers.

Agreed. Here's my perspective on both cars.

I'm disappointed at Ford's entry price for the DH. It shouldn't be more expensive than the G87 M2 - it should undercut the G87 M2 at the $50-55k range.

However, if you do plan to use the DH as a track car, I think the long term costs of that car on track will be substantially lower than the G87 M2. One out of warranty catastrophic powertrain failure on the G87 M2 is a complete ball buster compared to the long block cost of the 5.0 Coyote. Even replacing suspension components on the DH will be a fraction of the cost compared to the G87 M2. This makes it an appealing vehicle if you were to track very frequently.

The G87 M2 is a great buy brand new at low $60k. It'll just be way more expensive to repair when it's out of warranty.

[SeanJP]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

Agreed. Here's my perspective on both cars.

I'm disappointed at Ford's entry price for the DH. It shouldn't be more expensive than the G87 M2 - it should undercut the G87 M2 at the $50-55k range.

However, if you do plan to use the DH as a track car, I think the long term costs of that car on track will be substantially lower than the G87 M2. One out of warranty catastrophic powertrain failure on the G87 M2 is a complete ball buster compared to the long block cost of the 5.0 Coyote. Even replacing suspension components on the DH will be a fraction of the cost compared to the G87 M2. This makes it an appealing vehicle if you were to track very frequently.

The G87 M2 is a great buy brand new at low $60k. It'll just be way more expensive to repair when it's out of warranty.

Many of the options on the Dark Horse are insanely expensive. I built one on Ford’s configurator, choosing all the options I would want, and it priced into M3 Comp xDrive territory. 🥹

[Dave07997S]

The thing is Mustangs and Camaros aren't really muscle cars anymore. Both can turn with the best of them.

[SeanJP]

Originally Posted by AZG87

As a person that came from a modded s550 much faster than the Dark Horse and traded in/up for the G87 I still say it's a no brainer and would do it again. Much nicer interior, more refined power delivery despite lower raw power, more nimble and fun. Really the only thing I still miss is the over all sound of a v8 with long tubes but this little 6 with twins wakes up even with a simple EL mid.

As much as BMW sandbags their hp ratings, I won't even say it's lower raw power.

[BgsDks]

Originally Posted by BgsDks

Hold my beer - I'll be back when I take delivery to disprove your prejudice.

As promised, I'd be back: today was bath day for both cars. I hope this paradigm shift in the universe doesn't distress anyone.