[StallMaster]

With Black Friday around the corner i find myself shopping for parts that i may or may not be needing in the future.

One of them is the Intake Manifolds. There are a few different ones on the market i wanna keep an eye out for. And damn they are expensive...

On second thought- do i even need this?

Plan is to go FBO and Full E.

[MG20i]

Doubt you will need it uess you have a full unlock tune, and a tuner pushing it for all it is worth. Stock intake handles 600 wheel horsepower just fine. Better , less expensive investment would be the heat exchanger for the intercoolrs.

[rons e92]

If you plan to build your car to push past 40 PSI, get a manifold.

If you never plan on going that far, you don't need it.

My car ran 34 PSI and made 780whp and 720wtq on e78 with stock turbos. Mid 5s 60-130 on 31 psi low boost(760whp/660wtq). I never got a change to mess around with the high boost at the track, but that car was scary fast the way it was set up.

I had a CSF intake manifold and heat exchanger. I plan to buy them again. I bought them for the lower IATs (not as attractive as advertised, but still an improvement), increased airflow and strength, and for the ability to add port injection without drilling my stock manifold.

Probably overkill for what I'm doing at this point, but after a while everything starts to feel slow...

[StallMaster]

Originally Posted by rons e92

If you plan to build your car to push past 40 PSI, get a manifold.

If you never plan on going that far, you don't need it.

My car ran 34 PSI and made 780whp and 720wtq on e78 with stock turbos. Mid 5s 60-130 on 31 psi low boost(760whp/660wtq). I never got a change to mess around with the high boost at the track, but that car was scary fast the way it was set up.

I had a CSF intake manifold and heat exchanger. I plan to buy them again. I bought them for the lower IATs (not as attractive as advertised, but still an improvement), increased airflow and strength, and for the ability to add port injection without drilling my stock manifold.

Probably overkill for what I'm doing at this point, but after a while everything starts to feel slow...

Thanks. My plan is to keep it on stock turbos as well. So to make 760 ish am I running stock or upgraded mani? Not too concerned about IAT’s here in northern Cali.

[rons e92]

Originally Posted by StallMaster

Thanks. My plan is to keep it on stock turbos as well. So to make 760 ish am I running stock or upgraded mani? Not too concerned about IAT’s here in northern Cali.

I can't say whether or not you'll make that much power. There are too many variables. Just wanted to share my experience to help you make a more informed decision.

I never ran my car with PI and no manifold, so I can't say whether one makes more power as an absolute fact.

For the record, clicking 7th gear on my high boost map would have blown my engine, as per my tuner. It was a track only map designed to push as deep into the 9s as we could get. Never had a chance to try that.

Dyno numbers don't tell anything unless you have a baseline, and they don't tell the whole story. My car was running times like it made a lot more power. There are also guys out there with stock manifolds who run faster than I did.

You have to look at the whole thing as a package, not like I add this piece and I get this, etc. It's better to consider your overall objective and then build a package of parts to help you safely accomplish that goal and if you want, future proof it. The manifold is one of the worst dollar for dollar mods you could do if you're just looking for more power, but as part of a whole package, especially for people who want to run higher than 40psi, it's something that really should be seriously considered.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by rons e92

I can't say whether or not you'll make that much power. There are too many variables. Just wanted to share my experience to help you make a more informed decision.

I never ran my car with PI and no manifold, so I can't say whether one makes more power as an absolute fact.

For the record, clicking 7th gear on my high boost map would have blown my engine, as per my tuner. It was a track only map designed to push as deep into the 9s as we could get. Never had a chance to try that.

Dyno numbers don't tell anything unless you have a baseline, and they don't tell the whole story. My car was running times like it made a lot more power. There are also guys out there with stock manifolds who run faster than I did.

You have to look at the whole thing as a package, not like I add this piece and I get this, etc. It's better to consider your overall objective and then build a package of parts to help you safely accomplish that goal and if you want, future proof it. The manifold is one of the worst dollar for dollar mods you could do if you're just looking for more power, but as part of a whole package, especially for people who want to run higher than 40psi, it's something that really should be seriously considered.

To add to this, its more than dyno numbers unless you only care about it being a trailer queen. For comparison purposes, I am on a Stage 2 build (highflow catted downpipes, catback exhaust, colder plugs, Eventuri intake, upgraded heat exchanger and oil coolers...stock nanifold and turbos) and custom tuned 3 maps, 93, E30 & E40 kill (I seem to never take it off the E40 map). My trans is also tuned. My tune was not done on the dyno but live in car on a private "road" (I will call it a road). The tuner spent the better part of 6-8 hours dialing in the three maps. My E40 maxed top speed at 197 where the tuner backed off due to the MPerformance HAS causing handling issues (I have since switched to Ohlins Road and Track coilovers). The tuner said it probably would have safely topped at 205-210. Unfortunately haven't run it to get 1/4 times yet but I have opened it up for 1/8 mile runs and have an idea what it will do.

[DrewNewM2]

I’m just curious but if you guys are aiming for high power E builds with auto trans and drag racing times, why not get a G8x XDrive? Much more traction and stability and will more than likely get better times. G87 XDrive in a couple of years as well. Is it just the challenge of running RWD? Competing in RWD class?

My modded STi is probably faster than my stock G87 and makes probably same WHP but obviously way more traction and I would rather build my STi to 800 whp than the G87 being RWD simply based on traction.

With the g87 I wanted a manual so already know I’m limited by clutch and if I tune would keep it conservative anyway because don’t really want to run drag set up on the street just to get traction.
I dig these cars, E builds and S58 potential.

[mike@x-ph.com]

I would do the manifold + cooling upgrades after or at the same time as im upgrading my turbos

that's actually exactly what i intend on doing with my M4

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by DrewNewM2

I’m just curious but if you guys are aiming for high power E builds with auto trans and drag racing times, why not get a G8x XDrive? Much more traction and stability and will more than likely get better times. G87 XDrive in a couple of years as well. Is it just the challenge of running RWD? Competing in RWD class?

My modded STi is probably faster than my stock G87 and makes probably same WHP but obviously way more traction and I would rather build my STi to 800 whp than the G87 being RWD simply based on traction.

With the g87 I wanted a manual so already know I’m limited by clutch and if I tune would keep it conservative anyway because don’t really want to run drag set up on the street just to get traction.
I dig these cars, E builds and S58 potential.

Your stock G87 should easily run down the STI (assuming the STI got the jump) in the 1/4. If not, someone needs some time at a school for drag racing.

Last I checked, there was no G87 xdrive. You wouldn't catch me dead driving an M4 and I didn't want 4 doors nor pay over $100k before doing my first mod on an M3.

I have run numerous cars at Gainesville Raceway...never has one been an AWD nor have any of the cars I have run been an AWD. It's called old school...

[rons e92]

Originally Posted by DrewNewM2

I’m just curious but if you guys are aiming for high power E builds with auto trans and drag racing times, why not get a G8x XDrive? Much more traction and stability and will more than likely get better times. G87 XDrive in a couple of years as well. Is it just the challenge of running RWD? Competing in RWD class?

My modded STi is probably faster than my stock G87 and makes probably same WHP but obviously way more traction and I would rather build my STi to 800 whp than the G87 being RWD simply based on traction.

With the g87 I wanted a manual so already know I’m limited by clutch and if I tune would keep it conservative anyway because don’t really want to run drag set up on the street just to get traction.
I dig these cars, E builds and S58 potential.

RWD is faster than AWD, it's just infinitely harder to set up. Less weight up front, better weight transfer, less parasitic drivetrain loss, less things to break. My M240i xDrive was great, but my M2 was exponentially more fun.

Also, although my last car departed with a poultry 780whp, I do intend to push past that eventually. I do not like racing high HP AWD cars. When you spin with AWD, you lose steering. Not interested in losing my steering on the big end at 140mph+.

There is a reason the fastest cars are all RWD. It wouldn't take much to build a tube chassis AWD car, but these guys running proline engines running low 6s are all RWD. If you don't believe me, just go watch footage from World Cup, FL2K, TX2K, or any of the major racing events. The fastest cars are always RWD.

I got RWD because I like RWD. I get that M xDrive can do both, but it isn't available for the M2 and I don't like the M3 and M4.

If you build your STI to 800whp it's going to be nearly undriveavle, and you have probably a year before cyl 4 dies from oil starvation. Check out Bader Built racing on YouTube. He primarily does top Mount turbo setups on Subarus. He says 700whp is when the cars become terrifying.

Unfortunately I did have to run radials on my car full time because I was running straight pump ethanol. I was on the highway one night when I had the PS4S on the car and I hit the gas a little too hard and broke the tires loose at 85mph. Very scary.

Your trans tune can help with that a lot, although if you go manual you'll use the clutch in place of the software. My friend Kevin has a single turbo manual G87. He enjoys it.

Hope this info helps.

[DrewNewM2]

Originally Posted by rons e92

RWD is faster than AWD, it's just infinitely harder to set up. Less weight up front, better weight transfer, less parasitic drivetrain loss, less things to break. My M240i xDrive was great, but my M2 was exponentially more fun.

Also, although my last car departed with a poultry 780whp, I do intend to push past that eventually. I do not like racing high HP AWD cars. When you spin with AWD, you lose steering. Not interested in losing my steering on the big end at 140mph+.

There is a reason the fastest cars are all RWD. It wouldn't take much to build a tube chassis AWD car, but these guys running proline engines running low 6s are all RWD. If you don't believe me, just go watch footage from World Cup, FL2K, TX2K, or any of the major racing events. The fastest cars are always RWD.

I got RWD because I like RWD. I get that M xDrive can do both, but it isn't available for the M2 and I don't like the M3 and M4.

If you build your STI to 800whp it's going to be nearly undriveavle, and you have probably a year before cyl 4 dies from oil starvation. Check out Bader Built racing on YouTube. He primarily does top Mount turbo setups on Subarus. He says 700whp is when the cars become terrifying.

Unfortunately I did have to run radials on my car full time because I was running straight pump ethanol. I was on the highway one night when I had the PS4S on the car and I hit the gas a little too hard and broke the tires loose at 85mph. Very scary.

Your trans tune can help with that a lot, although if you go manual you'll use the clutch in place of the software. My friend Kevin has a single turbo manual G87. He enjoys it.

Hope this info helps.

Great info and comparison to your M240iX. Thanks man! Good point about losing steering if you lose traction in AWD car. I never thought about that.

I’ve seen Baders vids and I actually have a stock location FP green flex fuel set up on my STi which makes like 450 whp on a conservative tune. Would be like 500 whp with a more aggressive tune. Fun street car for all weather. A bigger turbo would make more power but get pretty laggy.

I knew the S58 had way more potential with less mods and was set on it for a couple of years before I got the g87. Now I just question what a reasonable power limit is to have a fun ride and stay on street tires and have it be controllable. I’m thinking 600 whp

[Kevin_The_Clean1]

This is a great question & glad the OP asked it. But to those that say RWD is faster than AWD, that statement I fully disagree with. At the end of the day, we're all allowed to have our own mindset. Maybe on a full purpose built, not street legal drag car that might be the case. But for a heavily modifies street machine, AWD can't be beat once it has been properly beefed up & calibrated correctly.