[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Won’t matter. VW is cooked. Way too much debt and built in high costs and falling profits. Chinese market is drying up for them. It’s just an inexorable march to bankruptcy for them now.

Everyone who plays in China eventually loses their ass, by design. It's a market based on thievery of IP and knowledge, and one controlled by the CCP directly. It's not like the US where consumers can pick what's right for them. In China, Xi says "buy a Chinese EV" and people don't because if they don't they get disappeared one day and are forced into slavery or just killed.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Everyone who plays in China eventually loses their ass, by design. It's a market based on thievery of IP and knowledge, and one controlled by the CCP directly. It's not like the US where consumers can pick what's right for them. In China, Xi says "buy a Chinese EV" and people don't because if they don't they get disappeared one day and are forced into slavery or just killed.

My comment was just based on the fact that VW's largest market was China and that their sales and profits there are dramatically declining and, I believe, unlikely to improve. Thus, along with their other myriad of problems and their overall debt, will put them at risk for bankruptcy in the next few years.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...is-2024-09-06/

I'm trying to stay away from more direct political remarks and just post about my concerns for legacy auto and, a fortiori, VW.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by gblansten

My comment was just based on the fact that VW's largest market was China and that their sales and profits there are dramatically declining and, I believe, unlikely to improve. Thus, along with their other myriad of problems and their overall debt, will put them at risk for bankruptcy in the next few years.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...is-2024-09-06/

I'm trying to stay away from more direct political remarks and just post about my concerns for legacy auto and, a fortiori, VW.

I haven't done the research, but isn't China BMW's biggest market as well? I think a lot of auto makers are going to be in trouble with Chinese domestic products being chosen over the historically sought after import brands.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

I haven't done the research, but isn't China BMW's biggest market as well? I think a lot of auto makers are going to be in trouble with Chinese domestic products being chosen over the historically sought after import brands.

Absolutely agree with you. It's a shi*show right now.

https://www.bmwblog.com/2024/10/13/b...china-q3-2024/

"China is by far BMW’s largest individual market. In the first half of the year, 376,353 cars were sold there. That’s about twice as many compared to the United States and roughly three times more than in Germany. In the first six months of the year, BMW fell by 4.3% in China compared to the same period last year. Unfortunately, the situation got a lot worse in the third quarter."

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Absolutely agree with you. It's a shi*show right now.

https://www.bmwblog.com/2024/10/13/b...china-q3-2024/

"China is by far BMW’s largest individual market. In the first half of the year, 376,353 cars were sold there. That’s about twice as many compared to the United States and roughly three times more than in Germany. In the first six months of the year, BMW fell by 4.3% in China compared to the same period last year. Unfortunately, the situation got a lot worse in the third quarter."

Ouch! Not good at all.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Absolutely agree with you. It's a shi*show right now.

https://www.bmwblog.com/2024/10/13/b...china-q3-2024/

"China is by far BMW’s largest individual market. In the first half of the year, 376,353 cars were sold there. That’s about twice as many compared to the United States and roughly three times more than in Germany. In the first six months of the year, BMW fell by 4.3% in China compared to the same period last year. Unfortunately, the situation got a lot worse in the third quarter."

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

China has done this for decades. Dangle their largest market in the world, attract foreign capital that has to do a joint venture with a Chinese company, steal their IP and knowledge, then wipe them out in the market in China and the rest of the world by selling at a massive loss and get government funding to offset.

Nothing political, purely economics here.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by Donatello.

Take out some competition.

Hopefully, Honda can get rid of Mitsu or make another worthwhile EVO.

As far as Nissan goes, they either will make Nissans that people want or they will give it the axe. Maybe they will even rollback GT-R pricing as it has been beyond LOL for so long.

So hoping for a Hybrid GTR. Thing would probably be bonkers. One can wish

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

China has done this for decades. Dangle their largest market in the world, attract foreign capital that has to do a joint venture with a Chinese company, steal their IP and knowledge, then wipe them out in the market in China and the rest of the world by selling at a massive loss and get government funding to offset.

Nothing political, purely economics here.

That's the point most folks miss, a downturn in sales in the Chinese market really doesn't reflect in loss of production jobs in Europe or the USA since Chinese policy mostly requires sales of non-domestic brands be manufactured in China. From the latest data I can find, the US exported US-made vehicles into China in 2021 at just 155,337 units (data from Uncle Sam's International Trade Administration). 155,377 units out of China's 35M-unit annual domestic market. China has a 15% "tax" (i.e. tariff) on non-domestic vehicles (i.e. not Chinese made). Yet all we've heard since early this year is "tariffs don't work". Apparently, they do. LOL.

An example? one of Ford's hottest-selling models, the Ford Bronco. The Chinese market model is built where? Yup, in China. Why does Ford not export the Michigan-built Bronco? Humm...

[Nothing political, purely economics here.]

[gblansten]

Honda's CEO just had a pretty awkward press moment related to its potential merger with Nissan. When asked why Nissan would make a good business partner for the mid-sized automaker, Toshihiro Mibe struggled to find the right words before blurting out something that brought laughter to a room full of journalists.

"That's a difficult one," said Mibe

LOL, CEO of Honda admits what most of have been wondering. The merger doesn’t seem to have merit. I think the Japanese government is pushing this on Honda.

https://insideevs.com/news/745625/ho...ggling-reason/

[bosstones]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Honda's CEO just had a pretty awkward press moment related to its potential merger with Nissan. When asked why Nissan would make a good business partner for the mid-sized automaker, Toshihiro Mibe struggled to find the right words before blurting out something that brought laughter to a room full of journalists.

"That's a difficult one," said Mibe

LOL, CEO of Honda admits what most of have been wondering. The merger doesn’t seem to have merit. I think the Japanese government is pushing this on Honda.

https://insideevs.com/news/745625/honda-nissan-merger-struggling-reason/

Wouldn't surprise me if there was a strong governmental factor. Nationally, there are reasons to do so and the US would probably do the same for the big 3 (nevermind past bailout of 2 of them). When GM was going to sell off Opel to the Chinese, I recall reading that Merkel tried to push VW to step in.

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by G MONEY

So hoping for a Hybrid GTR. Thing would probably be bonkers. One can wish

BMW already made it
It's the 6000 lb M5
🤣🤣🤣

[Tejas1836]

Originally Posted by G MONEY

So hoping for a Hybrid GTR. Thing would probably be bonkers. One can wish

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

BMW already made it
It's the 6000 lb M5
🤣🤣🤣

BMW already made it
It's the 5,500 lb pre-LCI F95 X5MC
Fixed it for you

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by Tejas1836

BMW already made it
It's the 5,500 lb pre-LCI F95 X5MC
Fixed it for you

Kindly pass on both. Lol