[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by EUPremier

Eh… you got that right… you’d probably anticpiated my squawking-in on this!
It makes a gigantic difference in EU.

Example: In my market you need to pay a tax to drive a car on the public road. It’s imaginatively named, ‘Road Tax’.

So, F90 drivers here have to stump-up €2400 every year to drive their cars. That’s your US Gas Guzzler tax… only every single year!!!

G90… €170 /yr!!! Amen to PHEV baby! 🙏

Enjoy it while it lasts.

In CA as EV sales increase and as liquid fuel sales decline and tax revenue goes down CA is considering charging EVs per mile driven.

[thebonafortuna]

Originally Posted by 6SPDG82

It’s crazy to me the differences between the new X3 and the current X5. I can’t get over how awful the interior quality is in the new X3 (The old X3 was much nicer inside from a dash/controls perspective)

Maybe with the new design team they’ll do a quick LCI. (I hope they do, especially on the inside)

That plastic, poorly fastened HVAC setup on the door should never have made it through the prototyping phase.

It’s not just the interior. They eliminated the noise and fire suppression materials from the underside of the engine hood…on the X3 AND THE M5!!!

All this cost cutting is an obvious effort the save money they’re being forced to put into EV R&D. If people stop buying (like me) the auto manufacturers will get screwed from both ends of government and customer. At that point it’s a waiting game to see if China or the West can outlast the other.

Or we can collectively rethink EV mandates.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by thebonafortuna

It’s not just the interior. They eliminated the noise and fire suppression materials from the underside of the engine hood…on the X3 AND THE M5!!!

All this cost cutting is an obvious effort the save money they’re being forced to put into EV R&D. If people stop buying (like me) the auto manufacturers will get screwed from both ends of government and customer. At that point it’s a waiting game to see if China or the West can outlast the other.

Or we can collectively rethink EV mandates.

Have to be savvy these days. The iX lease is a much better deal than financing an X3, for example. Or grab a prior gen X3 while you can as new or get a bare bones X5. Or go to a different brand.

[DrFerry]

Imagine how many more cars BMW could sell if their cars looked more sane. Note to self: Start a company selling alternative, grills, hoods and bumpers for all new BMWs currently in production. Market and sell the improved, better looking, and alternative parts through the Dealer network as an upgrade and through the retail market for used car owners. Laugh all the way to bank.

[-EndOfAnEra-]

Originally Posted by bayarea328xit

i4 is half of all 4 series sales; i5 and i7 are a third of all 5 and 7 sales...

That's a pretty good outcome for BMW...

Fascinating! The i4 is taking 55% of that sales category, 23,403 of 42,608 4er sales. I wonder if our community can take this a step further...

We know that BMW includes M sales in the series headers and releases M specific sales info only once in a blue moon. But, with the i4 sales split out from the ICE sales, do we have any data available from 2024 to estimate the percentage of M sales from series sales for the 4er? Would be very nice to finally get some good data here!

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by fanofbmwe46

I bet the ROI on the BEVs suck… they probably spend way more on advertising per BEV sold than ICE. I wish electric would stop being shoved down the throat of consumers.

Looks like i7 + iX (= 18,814) outsold 7 + 8-series (16,059) by a healthy margin.
And that doesn't include the hybrids (counted towards 7+8 series sales)!

Maybge its time to stop shoving ICE barges down the throat of consumers?

Originally Posted by ASAP

in the EU, the only markets that matter are the UK and Germany, all others are tiny... EU as a whole is I believe still a small market than USA alone

True.
And both are smaller than China.
China > US > EU.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...registrations/

Originally Posted by FreudeamFahren18

Unfortunately American market shifted to SUVs/crossovers and people no longer buy sedans. Numbers don’t lie. Other manufacturers have shifted away from making sedans namely Ford and GM. This is a dying segment. Times have changed Sedans are not coming back. Tesla Model 3 is the only outlier but its an Electric vehicle.

That's a headline from 10 years ago.

The real revlation is that i-model sales (50,981) are growing at a faster rate (12.3% Y/Y) than any other BMW vehicle category in the US.
Faster than passenger cars (3.3%).
Faster than light trucks (1.9%).
Faster than the dying MINI brand (-21.5%) that generated 26,229 unit sales in all of 2024.

The writing is on the wall:

1. Time to kill-off the MINI zombie brand.
2. Time to expand I-series and X-series lineups.
3. Time to consolidate ICE portofolio (3 & 4 are one too many, X5 & X6 are one too many, good riddence to the "coupe" category debacle).

Without EVs, BMW and the rest of the automotive industry would be stagnating.
Without winning in EV space, Western OEMs risk getting wiped out by the Chinse EV industry.

[EUPremier]

Originally Posted by ASAP

at a total level yes ur correct...

however, there a couple things to keep in mind... we have 0 diesels, none of the 3 cylinder engines, no touring models and none of the smaller ix models and we are the focus M car market... also, our fleet sales and police / emergency sales are never bmw either as we have our own vehicles... i'd be curious if i removed diesels alone how much this changes

The propulsion system is market-driven.
Sales Tax alone, on fuels in EU, variously named VAT or IVA etc can be as high as 23% (perhaps higher).

Diesel has been popular as Govs allow businesses to reclaim the VAT although there are calls now to stop this as the fuel falls out of favour for its less-than-green credentials.

My point is that the sales numbers represent buyers who needed transport and who were incentivised to choose a particular engine. I proffer that BMW would have had the same sales numbers even if those incentives did not exist but there’d be more balance between the fuel types.

Finally, worth bearing in mind the EU pop is 450m.

[EUPremier]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Enjoy it while it lasts.

In CA as EV sales increase and as liquid fuel sales decline and tax revenue goes down CA is considering charging EVs per mile driven.

Yes, Govs are unlikely to give up the revenue right enough.
The only thing is is that, certainly in Ireland, they tend to introduce changes to come into affect from a future date and to only affect vehicles registered after such date. It’s fairer than, say, incentivising EV purchases today and then shafting those buyers with punitive taxes tomorrow on those same vehicles.

As a sidebar… are PHEVs classes as EVs from a taxation perspective? Serious question.

[bayarea328xit]

Originally Posted by afadeev

I'm surprised that the new car sales volume is relatively flat for 5 decades...very interesting...

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by thebonafortuna

It’s not just the interior. They eliminated the noise and fire suppression materials from the underside of the engine hood…on the X3 AND THE M5!!!

All this cost cutting is an obvious effort the save money they’re being forced to put into EV R&D. If people stop buying (like me) the auto manufacturers will get screwed from both ends of government and customer. At that point it’s a waiting game to see if China or the West can outlast the other.

Or we can collectively rethink EV mandates.

BMW management also promised shareholders it would improve its margins. So they are attempting margin expansion while investing in EV R&D. Hasn’t worked out well for shareholders.

[MarlboroM2C]

Originally Posted by JustGeorge

Any numbers on the M cars ?

They never let us know. Still don't know how many M2 Comps were produced.

[lonestar22]

Originally Posted by JustGeorge

Any numbers on the M cars ?

You do realize M cars are just versions of their other cars outside of the XM right? An M3 is a 3 series so it is included in the 3 series sales. Same as the M4 and M5. The only standalone M car is listed, the XM.

[lonestar22]

Originally Posted by FreudeamFahren18

Unfortunately American market shifted to SUVs/crossovers and people no longer buy sedans. Numbers don’t lie. Other manufacturers have shifted away from making sedans namely Ford and GM. This is a dying segment. Times have changed Sedans are not coming back. Tesla Model 3 is the only outlier but its an Electric vehicle. Traditional ICE sport sedans from Lexus, Kia, Infiniti, Mercedes, Audi and others are all doing badly so its not just a BMW problem.

Sedans are not in favor right now but to say they are never going back is a bit much. Fads are going to do what they do, eventually people will want to not be your stereotypical SUV driver and get a car, suddenly itll become cool to own a car again. and the market will shift.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by bayarea328xit

I'm surprised that the new car sales volume is relatively flat for 5 decades...very interesting...

The auto industry is a no growth industry. Said differently it is a shrinking industry in terms of new vehicle sales per capita.

[chassis]

Great result for BMW in 2024, well deserved. BMW has been in a golden era since G01 launch.

Reliable, reasonably priced and equipped products.

[BMWbiker]

Originally Posted by ledphut

Wish it was me. The G32 640 Gran Turismo was a great proposition while it lasted. Rear legroom of a 7-Series with the convenience of a hatch. If BMW offered a V8 version I would’ve owned one.

Or the 382 HP B58.

I wasn’t shopping then. Had I been, I might have gone for it. I like hatchbacks and wagons.

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by outie

Yea I bet those competitors have a robust and smooth experience on their charging networks. Oh wait.

You must live under a rock.