[tracknut]

I don't want black steel or chrome lug bolts with my new wheels, and it looks like the next best answer is Titanium. Has anyone had breakage or issues with using air tools using Titanium?

Thanks

[NSXR]

I think the biggest issues with Ti lug bolts/nuts is their tendency to gall or corrode. Not really the best choice for most.

[zvez]

Originally Posted by tracknut

I don't want black steel or chrome lug bolts with my new wheels, and it looks like the next best answer is Titanium. Has anyone had breakage or issues with using air tools using Titanium?

Thanks

at a minimum you need to coat the threads with anti seize to minimize issues.

[tracknut]

Originally Posted by NSXR

I think the biggest issues with Ti lug bolts/nuts is their tendency to gall or corrode. Not really the best choice for most.

Ah, I hadn't realized Ti had that issue. Hmmm...

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by NSXR

I think the biggest issues with Ti lug bolts/nuts is their tendency to gall or corrode. Not really the best choice for most.

Titanium will not corrode.

Galling is horrible though, and its shear strength is pathetic.

OP, I suggest you do not use titanium unless you have a very specific reason for using it. If you must use it, go to town on the anti galling compound (/antiseize), and don't use air/impact/power tools.

YMMV.

[MaxVO2]

Originally Posted by tracknut

I don't want black steel or chrome lug bolts with my new wheels, and it looks like the next best answer is Titanium. Has anyone had breakage or issues with using air tools using Titanium?

Thanks

***I don't have titanium lug nuts or bolts on my M8c but I have used them on other platforms for just driving around and they work well in some cases, and have vastly higher corrosion resistance *after* forming their protective oxide layer (this can cause galling depending upon the application and type of Titanium used/coated or not, etc..proper lube on the threads helps a lot but may require modification of torque settings for optimal clamping force...) than the typical steel nut or bolt and have great thermal characteristics in terms of resistance to extreme heat from braking, etc.. Steel is generally idiot proof, Titanium less so as it is much more brittle.

NO way would I ever use them for racing and the studs at least are banned outright in many classes of drag racing - not sure about lug nuts/bolts. Shear strength is a LOT less in Titanium than good quality steel.

Also, it is *super* important they be a match for the wheels on your car in terms of seating (flat, taper, ball, etc..) in addition to being the correct length, etc.. There have been quality control issues with respect to Titanium bolts/nuts etc.. so if you get them, get them from a reputable source versus cheap no name off eBay or wherever..

Air tools or battery powered impact tools work but with Titanium you *really* need to be mindful of torque control, preferably torque limiting capability on them or finish off by hand with a lug wrench. Really depends on the tool one is using but follow manufacturers guides on proper torque and sometimes sequence depending upon the wheels.

Modern impact tools generally have easy to use torque setting but some people just never bother with them and estimate what is needed. Good idea to set a bit lower setting and snug up by hand with a lug wrench or torque wrench for titanium.

One thing to consider are coated sockets to prevent damage to finish on your wheels. Some can be purchased in whatever size needed with auto torque built in - Shun, Snap On and some other specialty brands make them and IMO for expensive wheels that need to come off and on often they are a worthwhile investment. Otherwise, just get a Plasti-Dipped or nylon coated socket to prevent marring and use your normal air impact or battery powered tool and consider finishing off by hand with a lug wrench or preferably a torque wrench...

Yes, the lug nuts or bolts in titanium will break if over torqued and they have somewhat less ability to withstand over torquing than steel. If you don't over tighten them they will work well: look great, generally don't rust, and weight a LOT less than steel. Lots of advantages to using them in *some* applications as long as you understand their limitations. Most people do not and have problems as a result. Having lug nuts fail can make for a really really bad day.

Good luck, and hope this helps.

[tracknut]

Originally Posted by MaxVO2

***I don't have titanium lug nuts or bolts on my M8c but I have used them on other platforms for just driving around and they work well in some cases...

Good luck, and hope this helps.

Awesome summary, thank you!

[NSXR]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Titanium will not corrode.

Ti itself doesn't, but when used with steel it's subject to galvanic corrosion. If you rarely remove your wheels this can be a problem. A perfect example is my application. I drive less than 1,000 miles a year, and don't drive in Winter, so it takes many years for my tires to wear out. I would not choose Ti lugs for this very reason.

[zx10guy]

To add to the discussion of being careful of torquing things down with Titanium. With the recommendation of using anti-seize, you really have to be careful of torquing the fasteners as the anti-seize will change the ultimate torque applied to the fastener. If I remember correctly, anti-seize will result in you applying higher torque than what you intended even with a torque wrench set to the recommended value.

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by NSXR

Ti itself doesn't, but when used with steel it's subject to galvanic corrosion. If you rarely remove your wheels this can be a problem. A perfect example is my application. I drive less than 1,000 miles a year, and don't drive in Winter, so it takes many years for my tires to wear out. I would not choose Ti lugs for this very reason.

It's the steel that corrodes in the galvanic reaction still. But yeah, another negative point against Ti. It's absolutely awesome, but totally impractical for most applications.

[ZPD]

If you are going for Ti looks then check out Motorsports Hardware. They have some lugs that are streal but finished to look like Ti.

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

To add to the discussion of being careful of torquing things down with Titanium. With the recommendation of using anti-seize, you really have to be careful of torquing the fasteners as the anti-seize will change the ultimate torque applied to the fastener. If I remember correctly, anti-seize will result in you applying higher torque than what you intended even with a torque wrench set to the recommended value.

100% this, DO NOT USE ANTI-SEIZE ON WHEEL BOLTS. You'll have a mess on your hands after you snap one off, hopefully while it is being tightened and not later on the road. The anti-seize lets you keep tightening and tightening because the threads aren't grabbing. Once you eventually, finally hit your torque value, the bolt can be stretched or worse.

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

100% this, DO NOT USE ANTI-SEIZE ON WHEEL BOLTS. You'll have a mess on your hands after you snap one off, hopefully while it is being tightened and not later on the road. The anti-seize lets you keep tightening and tightening because the threads aren't grabbing. Once you eventually, finally hit your torque value, the bolt can be stretched or worse.

With Ti it's different. Ti has good tensile strength, but weak shear strength. So it can (generally) take the tension of being tightened with lubricant, but it can't take the shear of being tightened dry. Throw galling into the equation and you'll end up in a fine mess if you don't use antiseize.

[IanH]

This all seems like a hell of an exercise to try to get some shiny lug bolts.

You can add lubrication to the bolt, but you are going to have to do a precise calculation to find out what torque value is needed in that configuration. It will not be easy to accurately determine the new friction coefficient (or the old one, precisely) to make the new torque determination.

Its possible, but you basically either need to do some bench testing, or trial and error and work up to figure by dealing with loose/lost bolts.

[tracknut]

Originally Posted by IanH

This all seems like a hell of an exercise to try to get some shiny lug bolts.

It does, and I'm essentially off the Ti idea given these posts. I'll just try to find some good looking 10.9 steel ones. I am surprised though at the number of drivers I see on this and other forums that have posted about their Ti lug bolts or a stud/nut swap. I am curious if they're having trouble and just didn't mention it on the forum, or if none of these issues has affected them.

[IanH]

Originally Posted by tracknut

they're having trouble and just didn't mention it on the forum

From my experience, more than half the mods you read about on the forums fall into the above category.

The famous phrase with exhausts "sounds great, no drone!" When it's actually vibrating the teeth out of their skull at a certain rpm.

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by IanH

This all seems like a hell of an exercise to try to get some shiny lug bolts.

You can add lubrication to the bolt, but you are going to have to do a precise calculation to find out what torque value is needed in that configuration. It will not be easy to accurately determine the new friction coefficient (or the old one, precisely) to make the new torque determination.

Its possible, but you basically either need to do some bench testing, or trial and error and work up to figure by dealing with loose/lost bolts.

It's not that sensitive on torque. I use antiseize on my OE steel wheel bolts routinely, and never once had an issue. Different cars, different bolts etc etc...never an issue. OE wheel bolts have plenty safety factor, so they can take being over-torqued repeatedly (within reason), and they'll still be safe with the torque a bit low too.

Ti wheel bolts/studs though... Way more likely to fail in various ways. Just not worth it unless you really must save that 50g/wheel, or cannot live with the idea that your wheel bolts may corrode eventually.

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

I use antiseize on my OE steel wheel bolts routinely, and never once had an issue.

That doesn't make it good practice or prove it's nothing to worry about.

[pbonsalb]

I use a tiny bit of anti seize also, on the hub surfaces and sometimes the studs. In New England, the roads are salted and wheel bolts and hubs corrode. I agree with the warnings above and would not recommend using anti seize unless you are confident that you know what you are doing.

I would never buy titanium wheel bolts or studs, but not because they may work best over time with antiseize. Rather, they are expensive and offer no performance benefit — they are for the person who is more into cosmetic details and appearances.

[Efthreeoh]

I hope I get to the day when what I have concern about is the appearance of my BMW lug bolts. No offense OP; I'm jealous.

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

That doesn't make it good practice or prove it's nothing to worry about.

Anecdotal evidence is better than no evidence at all, so long as you treat it as such.

[B58 parts]

I have been running the titanium kit from Mrgraceco for years now and have had no problems. I've never used anti-seize on threads. I remove them with an impact and torque them to the same factory spec. They look completely new. They still spin by hand and bite down nicely, on a subsequent rechecking they don't move.