[X5MnM3comp]

Originally Posted by 440i6MT

Undocumented can legally collect aid. This new change in California social services policy is one of the reason I chose to leave the public sector earlier this year.
Despicable breaking of the social contract by our government.

Ok I do not support that, it not right for the taxpayers. Going through naturalization process and become a law binding citizen, work and pay taxes is a must if the opportunity is possible for those I mentioned. But if you ask me whom I think deserves to live here between the hard working undocumented and jobless ruthless rioters that beat up cops, I think for public safety get rid of all of the criminals if that’s what we’re doing to provide safe environment for the public.

[X5MnM3comp]

Originally Posted by mvigod

Polls so far I've taken asking about tariffs across brands:

Porsche Cayman Poll (not across the entire brand): 61% would cancel. 39% would keep order

Ferrari (entire brand lineup): 80% would cancel. 20% would keep order

BMW(entire brand lineup): 79% would cancel. 21% would keep order

It is interesting how close Ferrari and BMW were in this poll among those who ordered vehicles with both sitting at about 80% cancellation. Porsche (I polled Cayman buyers only, not the full brand lineup) sits at 61%. I have to run a full brand poll on Porsche to see if it changes. I suspect it probably will rise closer to 80% once it includes their SUV's

Either way, this tells me that if tariffs are placed on the EU, the auto market & everything connected to them in the EU and the USA will suffer a great deal.

If the tariff drops below 25% I'd imagine the 80% would decrease along every 5% reduction as price elasticity would change. By the same token, I would expect it to rise higher if the tariff extended beyond 25%.

Great study on this across the brand. However the sample in this statistical analysis is extremely isolated that can only represent a fraction of those car buyers. Majority of high end car owners buy and own multiple high end cars are probably not on here. They also probably just buy whatever they see in the showroom. Even if they custom order, and we take those sample pool into consideration, it will bump up the “yes keep the order “ significantly surpasses the other survey answers. Many car enthusiasts on here because of their passion for cars, not necessarily owning a high end car is like owning a 60” smart tv at home.

Much appreciated in spending time to conduct this survey. But I wouldn’t use these skewed results to predict how the market will respond nor what manufacturers would do.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by DrVenture

What you are saying may apply to individual items/parts shipped here for assembly. But, a finished vehicle from a country subject to tariffs will be assessed the full amount. Whether or not any business chooses to absorb the added cost is yet to be seen. Let's be clear, if BMW "eats" it, that means their investors eat it. Lost profits have repercussions.

In 2023 the U.S. imported almost $600 billion in goods from the EU. The point is to make it hurt, not for it to make no difference. Consumers are losers in trade wars.

well USMCA agreement is still in effect as far as I know and it will be interesting to find out if US decides to pull out or not but there are rules specified for auto industry tariffs

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

I understand sarcasm, but that's a pretty bold statement to post here among many who still think only no SUV can ever be considered a real BMW.

Well, , it's the truth. Have you seen their latest sedans? They're largely crap. The best sedan they have right now is the 8 GC,, and it's barely a sedan. X5 and X7 are the best products that BMW has right now, by a HUGE margin.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by mvigod

Polls so far I've taken asking about tariffs across brands:

Porsche Cayman Poll (not across the entire brand): 61% would cancel. 39% would keep order

Ferrari (entire brand lineup): 80% would cancel. 20% would keep order

BMW(entire brand lineup): 79% would cancel. 21% would keep order

It is interesting how close Ferrari and BMW were in this poll among those who ordered vehicles with both sitting at about 80% cancellation. Porsche (I polled Cayman buyers only, not the full brand lineup) sits at 61%. I have to run a full brand poll on Porsche to see if it changes. I suspect it probably will rise closer to 80% once it includes their SUV's

Either way, this tells me that if tariffs are placed on the EU, the auto market & everything connected to them in the EU and the USA will suffer a great deal.

If the tariff drops below 25% I'd imagine the 80% would decrease along every 5% reduction as price elasticity would change. By the same token, I would expect it to rise higher if the tariff extended beyond 25%.

The idea that FERRARI buyers are worried about a tariff to the point that they're gonna cancel their order tells me your poll has zero value. The idea that guys who are waiting years for the opportunity to buy a Ferrari are gonna walk away because of a new price hike is laughable. I guess the triple years worth of other buyers will be happy though.

Again, this all goes away if the EU doesn't levy higher tariffs on US imports than the US levoed on them. It should be a warning that if you want to do business with the most powerful economy in the world, you have to play nice and don't try to screw us.

[X5MnM3comp]

So here’s my summary

Known facts as of today: 25% tariff on Canada and Mexico executed today. 10% in addition to prior 25% on China executed. Tariff on EU, trump clearly stated will happen in near future

Unknown: tariff on EU, how much and when.

Veblen Good. Please look up this terminology to describe a specific economic condition. It will be helpful.

BMW makes M cars to satisfy those car enthusiasts and those just want the most expensive car models, just because. But know that % of revenue is no where near to be considered their primary source of revenue. The real bread and butter comes from large volume of economical models that can be afforded by vast majority consumers. Just look up what are their highest sales model cars. So I personally think if the tariff becomes reality car manufacturers will focus on subsidizing their economical models over high end ones to sustain their profitability. Don’t expect the M models price ro remain or come down. Instead they will rise. The limited production in normal circumstances is already in short compared to demand. BMW will rather see this as an advantage to increase price to offset the reduction in profit margin on economic models in order to stay competitive. Again Veblen Good.

[zvez]

Originally Posted by DomMuc

why should your Dealer od BMW eat those tariffs if you guys knew what Trump will do an vodet him?! .. So every Buyer has to eat those tariffs... your own fault when voting for that ....

Let's put this into context. Trump won by a PLURALITY of the vote, he didn't even get 50% of the vote, he got around 49%. He does NOT have a mandate from majority of americans. and he lost popular vote by 3 million in 16 and 7 million in 20. He's never, EVER had a majority of support in this country.

Unfortunately elections have consequences and this election they're going to be dire.

[soldes]

What is the Universal motto?

Refrain from discussing politics and religion among family and friends, and friction and animosity are usually avoided.

That should also work for the bimmerpost conversation table, would be my guess...

[T.R.S.]

Originally Posted by X5MnM3comp

I think for public safety get rid of all of the criminals if that’s what we’re doing to provide safe environment for the public.

But there're all ILLEGAL immigrants... you know, CRIMINALS!!! (but cop beating is A-OK if you're doing it for the "right" reason).

How stupid could those poisoning the blood have been to fall for the line: "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

[Josh-PA]

Originally Posted by DrVenture

That suggests a vehicle that has yet to pass customs will be exempt. Not sure that I would consider a sales advisor the final word on that, but maybe BMW is planning to eat the tariff on orders already in the system.

It was pretty clear when I locked in my order that the BMW MSRP pricing was fixed (minus any dealership discounts, rebates, etc.). Basically my price couldn't go up after I put my order in. I re-confirmed that with my sales advisor last week and was told the same thing.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by Josh-PA

It was pretty clear when I locked in my order that the BMW MSRP pricing was fixed (minus any dealership discounts, rebates, etc.). Basically my price couldn't go up after I put my order in. I re-confirmed that with my sales advisor last week and was told the same thing.

Good luck with that!
BMW has often offered credit when they've raised transportation charges after an order has been placed, and even when there has been a price-increase announced. I don't remember a similar situation with a government tariff so I don't think your dealer sales advisor has any insight as to how BMW will choose to deal with it.

But ask yourself this: When an importer pays the US a 25% tariff, and you pay a commensurate price increase on the item, where does the 25% go? Into the US treasury along with credits for cuts to federal programs and employees? Will it all go to Trump's tally of how much money he's saved our country, while we pay for it? Remember, "Mexico will pay for the wall"?

The scary part is it's all part of Elon's cost-cutting he did at Twitter after his purchase when he cut 50% of the workforce structured in many cases to avoid any severance package payments and even continued health-insurance coverage for rank-and-file employees who found out they'd been cut in an email.

[mvigod]

Originally Posted by Josh-PA

It was pretty clear when I locked in my order that the BMW MSRP pricing was fixed (minus any dealership discounts, rebates, etc.). Basically my price couldn't go up after I put my order in. I re-confirmed that with my sales advisor last week and was told the same thing.

Call 20 dealers today and ask them the same question. I will guarantee the majority if not all will tell you MSRP is subject to change. Read your entire sales agreement on both sides. I went down this road. BMW can in fact change your sales price if there is a tariff. You will then have the choice to cancel & the dealer will be the sole arbiter if you get your custom order deposit back (read the entire sales agreement). That said, most dealers will give you your deposit back after you decline delivery. Some will wait until the vehicle is sold though to cut you a check. I have an M4 Comp on order probably March/April delivery looks like so I'm in the same boat as anyone who has a pending delivery

[mvigod]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

The idea that FERRARI buyers are worried about a tariff to the point that they're gonna cancel their order tells me your poll has zero value. The idea that guys who are waiting years for the opportunity to buy a Ferrari are gonna walk away because of a new price hike is laughable. I guess the triple years worth of other buyers will be happy though.

Again, this all goes away if the EU doesn't levy higher tariffs on US imports than the US levoed on them. It should be a warning that if you want to do business with the most powerful economy in the world, you have to play nice and don't try to screw us.

You may want to re-evaluate that statement after looking at the actual poll among Ferrari owners here that I took:

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/th...buyers.702697/

For context I own a Ferrari and have owned several for the last 20 years. After spending countless hours in the ferrari forums I can tell you one of the most popular discussions in there among owners/buyers every single day is price and depreciation. Sure some billionaires do not care about price and just buy no matter what. Price elasticity is meaningless to them.

However, for the MAJORITY of the 10,000 annual buyers of Ferrari's they are far more price sensitive than you think. For a portion of them this is a "reach" car and they extend themselves to obtain their dream. For others it is a luxury but they aren't so wealthy or stupid to just burn their cash up without regard for the depreciation. I could go on but you can read through the forums at Ferrarichat (the largest ferrari forum on the internet) and will clearly see that waiting for a Ferrari for years is far less a factor than a 25% bump on an already expensive car. An 296GTS might be 400K. Tariff would add 100k to that price plus thousands more for state sales tax depending where you live. Trust me that is quite meaningful to 80 to 90 percent of Ferrari owners

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by X5MnM3comp

Don’t disagree on your comment about the survey result.

US is in no position to declare trade wars today if the government cares about its people. Just look at the interest rate, the high inflation. How many people are on the streets old and young. How many more are being added on daily basis. Not to mention government financial deficiencies as trump openly admits. Little history background, US became the wealthiest country from being the biggest trader in the world before. And today we are doing just the opposite. But timing of doing this will risk of driving even more people that are hanging for survival onto the streets because nothing will be affordable. And this forum will reduce in its population because less people will be able to own M cars. Those can possibly be you and myself. Also what if every country retaliates, our farmers will suffer as well. Yes the increase in tariffs does bring money in to pay off some debts government owes, but realize that money ultimately comes from your pocket. So are ok with payong high price goods on almost everything with limited choice, paying high rates of taxes every year while being afraid of people robbing you or your house because of the shortage in law enforcement forces, driving your M car on shitty roads constantly worry about running into potholes and wondering where your tax dollars were spent on? If the government really cares about their people, not the 1% 2% , the vast majority and keeps the economy running, let consumers enjoy variety of goods at inexpensive prices, put money back in their pockets. There are plenty of things to reduce bs spending. How about take a look at legal citizens that don’t contribute for shit but take advantage of government aid programs to cheat taxpayers contributions. How about not trying to be the world leader all the time spend crap loads of money that doesn’t benefit our own people? How about just negotiate in a civil manner? Making threats that won’t benefit anyone on the expense of own people is just childish

I didn't read your whole big block of text. But a clarification. The US didn't get rich by trading. The US got where it is by manufacturing and EXPORTING. The Boomer generation has exported those manufacturing jobs to the detriment of the country.

Agreed with the others, we should be levying HUGE tariffs on China. Canada needs to stop being a backdoor for China. Mexico is a much more complicated situation with illegal immigrants, Chinese fentanyl, etc.

The EU is easy. Set EU tariffs on the US to the 2.5% that the US places on the EU currently.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by mvigod

You may want to re-evaluate that statement after looking at the actual poll among Ferrari owners here that I took:

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/th...buyers.702697/

For context I own a Ferrari and have owned several for the last 20 years. After spending countless hours in the ferrari forums I can tell you one of the most popular discussions in there among owners/buyers every single day is price and depreciation. Sure some billionaires do not care about price and just buy no matter what. Price elasticity is meaningless to them.

However, for the MAJORITY of the 10,000 annual buyers of Ferrari's they are far more price sensitive than you think. For a portion of them this is a "reach" car and they extend themselves to obtain their dream. For others it is a luxury but they aren't so wealthy or stupid to just burn their cash up without regard for the depreciation. I could go on but you can read through the forums at Ferrarichat (the largest ferrari forum on the internet) and will clearly see that waiting for a Ferrari for years is far less a factor than a 25% bump on an already expensive car. An 296GTS might be 400K. Tariff would add 100k to that price plus thousands more for state sales tax depending where you live. Trust me that is quite meaningful to 80 to 90 percent of Ferrari owners

You should never, ever, ever reach to buy a car you can't afford. I don't care if it's a dream car or a flex or a celebration or whatever. It's just a damn car, and you're gonna lose money on it. I love Ferraris as much as any other guy with Italian heritage (well, most, I'm not like, Luigi from the movie Cars level), and I still wouldn't stretch to buy one, it's just not smart.

Maybe your poll is accurate, maybe it isn't. Maybe Ferrarichat is more popular with people stretching to buy one and the really wealthy people buying them don't go on forums they go on private jets? I dunno, and frankly, I don't really care.

The EU has the power to stop this by matching the barriers to trade that the US has with them, which means lowering their tariffs on the US.

[DomMuc]

so in Europe the Chinese tariffs are live from jan 1st
.. and the customer have to "eat" them... for example an high voltage module was in december 24 2100€.. now end of jan 25 it is 2900€
it will be the same in the us

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

But ask yourself this: When an importer pays the US a 25% tariff, and you pay a commensurate price increase on the item, where does the 25% go?

More critically all of for us here, where does it come FROM?
The answer is unavoidable - us, the consumer. No-one else.

If YOU don't pay that additional 25% of the purchase price, BMW certainly won't. BMW margin in 2024 was 6.1% (decreasing for 3 years straight), so it has no room to absorb the tariff-tax even if it wanted.

In the short-medium term, there are only two (2) options for BMW:

1. Raise prices by 25% to offset the tariff-tax.
2. Discontinue selling cars in the US.

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BMW.DE/financials/

Originally Posted by BlkGS

The US didn't get rich by trading. The US got where it is by manufacturing and EXPORTING.

Exporting is Trading!
Duah.

This isn't 19th century - supply chains are optimized across countries and continents for the benefit of consumer. Especially in the automotive sector. We have (had?) the most competitive automotive product value propositions in the world, thanks to free trade, free flow of innovation, capital, and ideas.

Now a tiny group of inept economic Muppets are trying to derail it.
Automotive and agro sectors will be hit the hardest, as those are the easiest to target with retaliatory tariffs.

This isn't new.
Google The Smoot-Hawley Tariff act of 1930, a pre-curosor to the Great Depression.

Tariffs on alies and economic partners were dumb in 1930, and they are dumber^10 in 2025.
Never mind that the Muppet imposing them has no legal authority to do so.

Originally Posted by BlkGS

The EU has the power to stop this by matching the barriers to trade that the US has with them, which means lowering their tariffs on the US

Tariffs on car imports/exports between US and EU are identical.
Please stop spreading the B.S.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...25-2025-01-28/

[Mani59]

Hello all,

A reminder that please do not post any political posts as these will be deleted and may lead to the entire thread being deleted.

We have, for several years, prohibited the posting of any religious and political posts which you can read about here.

Thanks, Mani

[NickyC]

Good negotiations with Mexico apparently. They’re sending 10k troops to the border to help stop drugs and illegal aliens, and Trump paused Mexico tariffs for a month. Good start.

Trump supposedly speaks with Trudeau at 3PM today, hopefully they can make a deal as well.

[unluky]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Good negotiations with Mexico apparently. They’re sending 10k troops to the border to help stop drugs and illegal aliens, and Trump paused Mexico tariffs for a month. Good start.

Trump supposedly speaks with Trudeau at 3PM today, hopefully they can make a deal as well.

Wait........so you mean........using tariffs as a TOOL actually might have worked??? That can't be? I want all tariff talks stopped IMMEDIATLY because the TV told me my toast would cost more! LOL