[pizza240]

Lots of pro-manual in here. I'm sort of on the fence.

I'm probably getting the manual car because it won't be my only vehicle, and my other vehicle has a dual clutch transmission.

But I really do appreciate the quality and performance of the ZF8… and the extra power would be nice to have.

ZF8 does not perform like your typical auto. Even from the passenger's seat: most people thought my M240ix had a dual clutch because of how it shifted.
In the end, I still missed having a manual car and got MT in my previous M2C, which I recently traded in for a Macan GTS.

Sure, a ZF8 won't feel as engaged in gear as the manual but you won't hate it at all. It'll be fast, and shifting is still fun. It feels a lot like the Macan's PDK.

Apologies if that makes it harder to make a decision. I know plenty of people who regret getting manual over auto… but they're mostly Porsche guys.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by rk95

It won't stall?

Pretty much. If you were determined you could probably still stall it. But I've tested pretty steep hill starts with no gas and the car just adds gas for you as you let out the clutch.

[M2PDX]

To be honest, you can't go wrong with either.

I'm going 6MT, but the ZF would also be a solid choice for the right circumstances!

[Ezio]

I have had manuals and autos over the years. Even had a E92 M3 with DCT before those went out of production. Currently daily drive a manual mustang and our family has M240i. So I totally understand both worlds.

The ZF is so good and you lose the ability to remote start . A BMW M product is a fine tuned machine, not sure a manual fits it well. Where my mustang is rough, not nearly as comfortable, and loud.

I would be interested to drive a manual M car though, just think I would go with the auto for comfort.

[Matthewricha]

Thread revival! I too am struggling this this. Sold my manual M235i last week, now want a G87.

Test drove an Auto G87 with standard sport seats a few weeks ago and I had the car to myself, but in non ideal conditions as it was -4 degrees with slippery roads, so couldn't give it much throttle. Gear changes were super quick in M1 mode.

Today test drove a manual with standard sport seats. Again not really able to floor it properly with the dealer man next to me. However I noticed the gear box was much less notchy than my M235i that I had for 7 years and also the rev match feature aided smooth gear changes, so was very easy to drive. Pedals in the UK are definitely offset to the right. The clutch pedal is inline with the seat centre carbon hump.

After the test drive noticed there was a virtually new Manual with bucket seats at a very good price! Need to test drive to make sure carbon hub bit isn't an issue. Leading up to selling my car I said I'd get an auto due to bad traffic in our area, but also wonder if I will miss the interaction with the car via the gearbox lol. Our other family car is a Touareg with a ZF for context.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Matthewricha

After the test drive noticed there was a virtually new Manual with bucket seats at a very good price! Need to test drive to make sure carbon hub bit isn't an issue. Leading up to selling my car I said I'd get an auto due to bad traffic in our area, but also wonder if I will miss the interaction with the car via the gearbox lol. Our other family car is a Touareg with a ZF for context.

We have a Macan S with 7-speed DCT and G87 with manual. I will always take the G87 over the Macan, even if driving in heavy traffic, unless the extra space in the rear or the boot are needed or I need to tow the Caterham on it's trailer.

I would say if you want a manual, it is the way to go, as it is an easy car to edge along at slow speed in heavy traffic. We had an F22 M240i before, the G87 is a step up in terms of transmission feel.

[M2M3M3]

These auto vs manual threads are as bad as the "best oil" and "best color" threads. There are lots of them and they are all the same. There is no best/right answer. The answer is unique to what the individual driver likes...... nobody else's opinion matters.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Matthewricha

Thread revival! I too am struggling this this. Sold my manual M235i last week, now want a G87.

Test drove an Auto G87 with standard sport seats a few weeks ago and I had the car to myself, but in non ideal conditions as it was -4 degrees with slippery roads, so couldn't give it much throttle. Gear changes were super quick in M1 mode.

A little offtopic, but considering that you are coming from an M235i, you probably aren't aware that M1 is completely customizable. You can preset 3 levels of the transmission ranging from comfortable and smooth, to fast and sharp. There is no way to tell what setting you were on even if you pressed the M1 button unless you looked at the screen and saw the setting itself.

[Matthewricha]

Originally Posted by jmg

A little offtopic, but considering that you are coming from an M235i, you probably aren't aware that M1 is completely customizable. You can preset 3 levels of the transmission ranging from comfortable and smooth, to fast and sharp. There is no way to tell what setting you were on even if you pressed the M1 button unless you looked at the screen and saw the setting itself.

yep I was aware.. M1 was configured with everything in sport or sport +. M2 was configured with MDM mode with ESP off. In my Auto test drive the gear box was in setting 3 for the snappiest gear changes.

[1_v00d00child]

Whoever says the ZF response time is bad either has not driven the car or is fabricating a story. The ZF is super responsive, the gears are much shorter than the manual, and if you really want to make things crazy you can install the CSL flash.

Honestly, I've never owned an automatic transmission before the G87 and the character of the engine is better suited for the ZF. I'm sure the manual is still a blast. However, you will have to be limited to 406 lb*ft of torque, drop the transmission to remove the clutch delay valve if you don't want clunky slow rev hang shifts, and install a short shifter to get rid of the rubbery long throw.

The car should come with a good manual transmission like the Camaro SS 1LE, CT5-V Blackwing, Corvette C7, Dark Horse mustang, any Porsche manual, list goes on...

Why does a BMW M car come with a sub-par manual transmission?

My car is already pushing 438 lb*fts of the torque with the 2025 flash. I'd be slipping the clutch if it was a manual.

Again, both are fun -- but evaluate the points above and drive both transmissions first.

[Lagunatic]

I mainly bought this car because it had manual.

[Driium]

I test drove both before placing an order for the 8AT. My personal opinion was that the auto was better suited to the car. In the manual I felt as though the gearing was too long. The ZF8 paired with the S58 felt more respnsive, the additional gears with shorter gearing felt like the car was within the appropriate powerband at all times. I was a pretty diehard “buy a manual if its an option” kind of guy until I test drove the M2 in both auto and manual. The minor complaints of the lackluster manual shifter feel can be fixed, the tall gearing is an entirely different matter.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Driium

I test drove both before placing an order for the 8AT. My personal opinion was that the auto was better suited to the car. In the manual I felt as though the gearing was too long. The ZF8 paired with the S58 felt more respnsive, the additional gears with shorter gearing felt like the car was within the appropriate powerband at all times. I was a pretty diehard “buy a manual if it’s an option” kind of guy until I test drove the M2 in both auto and manual. The minor complaints of the lackluster manual shifter feel can be fixed, the tall gearing is an entirely different matter.

The gearing is well spaced for a sporting vehicle with 6 speeds that is designed to be close to the redline in 6th at 285km/h. 1st is fine at spinning the tyres off the line, so making it a lower ratio would cause worse spacing in the other gears. The manual transmission just needs revs for optimum performance.

The 8AT does have the advantage off the line with the extra lower gear up to about 130km/h. Above that speed on the track the manual starts to catch up slowly due to better gearing from 3-6th, lower transmission loses and a slightly lower weight. Both transmissions reach the maximum electronically limited speed of 285km/h in 6th gear, so 7th and 8th are not useful from a performance perspective in the 8AT.

In the 2023/4 models with the same power and torque, the manual has a small gap at the end of a straight with an entry speed of around 100km/h and reaching 210km/h before braking, based on running in convoy with a manual 2023 when I was in an auto 2023 at Area 27, both cars shifting just before the redline to avoid hitting the rev limiter. Published performance figures that show both manual and auto reaching 240km/h in the same time of about 21.5 seconds, also bear this out.

The manual will always be slower around town, but at higher speeds and especially on track, the 8AT loses it’s advantage.

[nerdthewise]

Originally Posted by Driium

I test drove both before placing an order for the 8AT. My personal opinion was that the auto was better suited to the car. In the manual I felt as though the gearing was too long. The ZF8 paired with the S58 felt more respnsive, the additional gears with shorter gearing felt like the car was within the appropriate powerband at all times. I was a pretty diehard “buy a manual if its an option” kind of guy until I test drove the M2 in both auto and manual. The minor complaints of the lackluster manual shifter feel can be fixed, the tall gearing is an entirely different matter.

I too test drove both and found the manual underwhelming. Gearbox felt mushy and if you run out the gears your going to jail by third. Against all my better instincts I purchased my first automatic ever at 38 years old and have loved the three months I’ve had the car. Both my m buttons live in sequential mode and the only time I ever regret not having a manual are the moments habit wants me to dump the clutch and I can’t, but hey, learning something a little different is fun too? I put flappy magnetic paddles in which helps driver engagement a bit, as does shifting with the gear selector (conveniently rally like!). Everyone is different, but I went auto after owning nothing but manuals - the calculation made sense then and I would make the same choice today if the car was replaced.

[DrewNewM2]

Originally Posted by 1_v00d00child

Whoever says the ZF response time is bad either has not driven the car or is fabricating a story. The ZF is super responsive, the gears are much shorter than the manual, and if you really want to make things crazy you can install the CSL flash.

Honestly, I've never owned an automatic transmission before the G87 and the character of the engine is better suited for the ZF. I'm sure the manual is still a blast. However, you will have to be limited to 406 lb*ft of torque, drop the transmission to remove the clutch delay valve if you don't want clunky slow rev hang shifts, and install a short shifter to get rid of the rubbery long throw.

The car should come with a good manual transmission like the Camaro SS 1LE, CT5-V Blackwing, Corvette C7, Dark Horse mustang, any Porsche manual, list goes on...

Why does a BMW M car come with a sub-par manual transmission?

My car is already pushing 438 lb*fts of the torque with the 2025 flash. I'd be slipping the clutch if it was a manual.

Again, both are fun -- but evaluate the points above and drive both transmissions first.

I’m sure the auto is responsive but I’ve driven manual cars my whole life and the g87 manual seems fine. I think it needs a short shift kit but overall no complaints.

As far as the torque limits of the manual, just because factory limit is 406 doesn’t mean it wont hold more. I don’t think anyone is slipping at 438 crank torque, but once you start hitting over 500 wtq then you will probably start slipping. Plenty of modded G8x manuals have found the limit and then you can upgrade the clutch and be fine.

[Crazyotter]

Originally Posted by Matthewricha

Thread revival!

😐😒

[Matthewricha]

Originally Posted by Crazyotter

😐😒

lol.. sorry

[mrdudley]

Late to this party (also it’s a very old thread), but my M2 was the first manual I’ve ever owned, and only the third manual I’ve ever driven (for only about 4 hours total). Also I live in San Francisco, so hills and traffic. I used early mornings to get some practice in to build confidence.

I don’t regret my decision at all. I would choose the manual every time. I just love the driving experience. I’ve always wanted a manual rwd car, and they are not going to be around much longer.

Not super hard to drive S58 with manual. Clutch is light so not fatiguing. Yea the gears all tall, so in the city never get past 2nd (which could be a pro for city driving I suppose).

[N240i]

Seeing as how this has been revived I guess I'll add my two cents...

So, I currently own a '22 M240, which I'm trading in for a '25 M2 with the 6MT, that's currently on order.

The auto in my car, although not tuned the same as the M cars, is an absolute wonderful transmission. Super smooth, very quick in shifts, and I honestly don't have one negative thing to say about it. It's been amazing.

That being said though, throughout my entire ownership, I kept telling myself "this car would be so much better with a manual". As great as the Auto is, it just makes the car feel less special imo. It takes away from the joy of driving this type of car. Yes the auto is "better", but most of us are never actually chasing lap times, we're just trying to enjoy the road ahead to the best of our abilities.

If a manual was available in the m240 when I ordered it, I'd have gone for that, and the truth is I likely would've never upgraded to the m2 (as the Xdrive is a peach for a place like Montreal). The six speed is quite literally the only reason I'm switching. To be able to properly enjoy this coupe the way God intended. Don't get me wrong, all the upgrades of the M2 are hella welcomed, but they aren't a necessity for me, as much as the manual is.

As many have mentioned, it's a very personal choice. My advice (and this goes for all options, not just transmissions), pick what will make this car feel the most "special" for YOU, for as long as it can.

[Matthewricha]

Originally Posted by N240i

Seeing as how this has been revived I guess I'll add my two cents...

So, I currently own a '22 M240, which I'm trading in for a '25 M2 with the 6MT, that's currently on order.

The auto in my car, although not tuned the same as the M cars, is an absolute wonderful transmission. Super smooth, very quick in shifts, and I honestly don't have one negative thing to say about it. It's been amazing.

That being said though, throughout my entire ownership, I kept telling myself "this car would be so much better with a manual". As great as the Auto is, it just makes the car feel less special imo. It takes away from the joy of driving this type of car. Yes the auto is "better", but most of us are never actually chasing lap times, we're just trying to enjoy the road ahead to the best of our abilities.

If a manual was available in the m240 when I ordered it, I'd have gone for that, and the truth is I likely would've never upgraded to the m2 (as the Xdrive is a peach for a place like Montreal). The six speed is quite literally the only reason I'm switching. To be able to properly enjoy this coupe the way God intended. Don't get me wrong, all the upgrades of the M2 are hella welcomed, but they aren't a necessity for me, as much as the manual is.

As many have mentioned, it's a very personal choice. My advice (and this goes for all options, not just transmissions), pick what will make this car feel the most "special" for YOU, for as long as it can.

Lovely reply!

I've worked out the strategy now. Buy an engaging car now, M2, Manual, Bucket seats... later down the line reserve it for special drives and get a small car, possibly an EV for commuting. I tend to keep my cars for 7+ years, this maybe more.

Originally Posted by N240i

Not super hard to drive S58 with manual. Clutch is light so not fatiguing. Yea the gears all tall, so in the city never get past 2nd (which could be a pro for city driving I suppose).

All my cars have been Manual ...DC5, S4, 335i and lastly my M235i. Most of the gearing maybe tall as people seem to suggest, but 6th gear is most definitely not tall! The box needs a 7th gear really for Motorway driving. The engine is at ~3k rpms at around 70mph.. not a deal breaker at all, just an observation.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by Matthewricha

Lovely reply!

I've worked out the strategy now. Buy an engaging car now, M2, Manual, Bucket seats... later down the line reserve it for special drives and get a small car, possibly an EV for commuting. I tend to keep my cars for 7+ years, this maybe more.



All my cars have been Manual ...DC5, S4, 335i and lastly my M235i. Most of the gearing maybe tall as people seem to suggest, but 6th gear is most definitely not tall! The box needs a 7th gear really for Motorway driving. The engine is at ~3k rpms at around 70mph.. not a deal breaker at all, just an observation.

When I had my M2 with its 6-speed my daily driver was a 2023 MINI JCW with a 6-speed. Both cars were engaging. Win win.