[kabalm18]

Check it out!

http://wot.motortrend.com/6528758/au...lap/index.html

[aut0sh0cker]

7:40!!!

two seconds faster than the 997.1 gt3... pretty impressive for just a facelift if you ask me!

[1BMW4fun]

What do you mean just a face lift, it has a whole new engine with more power.

[aut0sh0cker]

Originally Posted by 1BMW4fun

What do you mean just a face lift, it has a whole new engine with more power.

Thats what I mean! The face-lifted versions of the entire Porsche lineup all carry substantial improvements. Just compare it to what a BMW facelift gives you: new lights, minor bodywork, and a nicer nav system... pretty weak IMO.

A facelift is supposed to generate brand interest without the release of an entirely new model and I think Porsche has a better grasp of this concept than BMW.

[BForbes]

Very nice. Definitely the purists choice. But, stay away from the GT-R. Its a 13sec gap.

[E82tt6]

Originally Posted by BForbes

Very nice. Definitely the purists choice. But, stay away from the GT-R. Its a 13sec gap.

TBH, I don't believe for a heartbeat that the GTR runs that fast. Porsche said they couldn't do better than 7:54 on stock tires with their hotshoe, and I have no reason to doubt that.

Just my opinion.

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by E82tt6

TBH, I don't believe for a heartbeat that the GTR runs that fast. Porsche said they couldn't do better than 7:54 on stock tires with their hotshoe, and I have no reason to doubt that.

Just my opinion.

True, I'm of the opinion that it did. 7:54 is too slow. I dont think Porsche would've admit it even if it did. Thats just bad for business. I wonder if they have the same drivers that were along in testing during the development process. Why would Nissan slightly update the car and run claim a new time of 7:27? They were gunning for the ZR-1's 7:22 and missed but they're fine with that. At least for now. That would have to be the biggest automotive BS'ing I've seen in quite a time.

[OBI_agent]

Forget who goes faster......I love how the new GT3 looks.Here's a comparison shot to a GTR.

[ragingclue]

I'd rather have the GT3.

Will we ever know if that Nissan time is complete BS? I dunno. But I don't really care anymore either.

[BForbes]

I would definitely pick the GT3 over the GT-R as well.

[E82tt6]

Originally Posted by BForbes

True, I'm of the opinion that it did. 7:54 is too slow. I dont think Porsche would've admit it even if it did. Thats just bad for business. I wonder if they have the same drivers that were along in testing during the development process. Why would Nissan slightly update the car and run claim a new time of 7:27? They were gunning for the ZR-1's 7:22 and missed but they're fine with that. At least for now. That would have to be the biggest automotive BS'ing I've seen in quite a time.

I could see low 7:40s.

I just honestly cannot see the GTR beating cars like the CGT, Enzo, and Zonda F that have twice as much power per pound, more grip, and better brakes. Over a two mile straight, I could see a CGT opening up a 5 second lead.

The difference between a car in the upper 1-teens to low 120s trap speed, and low 130s (comfortably on street tires) is MASSIVE. Here's a z06 vs a GTR to get an idea:

Another comparo, ZR1 vs GT2 vs 599 vs GTR, from a stop, giving the GTR a HUGE advantage compared to a real track:

Or, Z06 vs GT2:

This is what a CGT can do a GT2:

996, granted, but the 996 is still within a few mph of the 997.

I just simply cannot believe that the GTR can come within even 10 seconds of a car like the CGT, that could open up a lead of nearly 10 seconds over the course of a 2 mile straight, with more cornering speed.

This is what a CGT vs a GTR calibre car would look like:

That Kellener's M6 is likely actually a bit faster than a GTR at speed, I believe they put down ~40 more hp.

Y'all can see why I find a GTR running faster than this car around a high-speed impossible to believe.

The Zonda F/R is even faster than a CGT.

It takes some BIG BALLS on Nissan's part to make those sorts of claims. I'll beleive it when I see it. Same driver, same day, both cars dynod, and tires checked to ensure that they're bone stock. Impartial driver, at that.

[bubbletea 4 me]

Originally Posted by E82tt6

TBH, I don't believe for a heartbeat that the GTR runs that fast. Porsche said they couldn't do better than 7:54 on stock tires with their hotshoe, and I have no reason to doubt that.

Just my opinion.

why would you, or anyone, completely doubt that the GT-R were able to go that fast? cuz it's a NIssan? or cuz Porsche couldn't/wouldn't admit it? you do realize the so called "we can't achieve it so it's fake" comment is made by non other than Porsche themselves. Not saying Nissan's original time was 100% correct (i think it was unofficial) but i also would take Porsche's own test with a grain of salt. what kind of company would admit they drive faster in a competitor's car?

oh and the following article should set things straight a bit more. yes, GT-R is faster than the top line Porsches...and we are not even talkin about the spec V yet.. which i'm sure they will be used to gun for the REAL top dogs (ZR-! and Viper)

http://wot.motortrend.com/6519243/au...lap/index.html

I guess AWD and supposely under-rated hp does wonders

[E82tt6]

Can you explain to me how on earth a GTR can beat around a very high speed track cars that are capable of putting buslengths on it in moments, whilst cornering and braking much faster. It does not make sense.

A CGT, as I pointed out above, could likely gain 10 seconds on a GTR on one of the many highspeed straights on the N-Ring.

I believe it to realistically be a bit behind a F430 Scud, Gallardo LP-560, and on par perhaps slightly quicker than a Z06 or GT3 on most tracks. I'd imagine the Z06 would have a slight advantage on a highspeed track. C&D's Lightning Lap results seem to confirm as much. On fairly technical course, it gets mudstomped by the Viper ACR and Mosler, and comes in slightly behind the Scud, and 2 seconds better than what the Z06 did the year before.

On a more open track like the N-Ring, cars in that league would be able to open up an even larger lead.

I cannot for the life of me understand how it should be capable of besting cars like the Enzo, Zonda F, and CGT, when in independant testing it can only edge out cars like the Z06 and GT3, and can't keep up with an F430 Scuderia.

Quite frankly, the claim that it is faster around the NRing than an Enzo, CGT, or Zonda is so ridiculous it actually made me laugh when I first heard it. I just don't see how anyone can believe that. On a highspeed track, a car that has twice the amount of HP per pound, while also having better grip and braking will be faster, end of story.

IMHO, it's about as silly as suggesting that a 335xi can beat an M3 around a track, because it's only 10-15mph slower in the 1/4th mile, only 10ft slower to stop from 60, only pulls .1g less grip on a skidpad, only slaloms 1 mph slower, bbbuuuutttt it has AWD!!!

Actually, to be honest, a 335xi is much closer to an M3 in all around performance than a GTR is to a CGT, Enzo, or Zonda F... If you haven't been in a car that traps well into the 130s, and a car that traps in the upper 1-teens to compare, it's hard to put into words.

Originally Posted by bubbletea 4 me

why would you, or anyone, completely doubt that the GT-R were able to go that fast? cuz it's a NIssan? or cuz Porsche couldn't/wouldn't admit it? you do realize the so called "we can't achieve it so it's fake" comment is made by non other than Porsche themselves. Not saying Nissan's original time was 100% correct (i think it was unofficial) but i also would take Porsche's own test with a grain of salt. what kind of company would admit they drive faster in a competitor's car?

oh and the following article should set things straight a bit more. yes, GT-R is faster than the top line Porsches...and we are not even talkin about the spec V yet.. which i'm sure they will be used to gun for the REAL top dogs (ZR-! and Viper)

http://wot.motortrend.com/6519243/au...lap/index.html

I guess AWD and supposely under-rated hp does wonders

[vAnt826]

It's more than just numbers.

[E82tt6]

Originally Posted by vAnt826

It's more than just numbers.

What is it? A time warp?

How does a car that accelerates much, much, much slower, corners slower, and brakes slower than its competitor win around a track?

[gshb]

Originally Posted by E82tt6

What is it? A time warp?

How does a car that accelerates much, much, much slower, corners slower, and brakes slower than its competitor win around a track?

im not going to pretend to know all the science and math behind the gtr, but its unique advantage to its competition is the attessa-ets awd system. its able to manage slip angle at all times, able to shift power front to rear from 50/50 to 100% rear using a yaw-rate feedback control system and electronically controlled hydraulic clutches in the diffs. i cant find how fast the sampling rate is, but i assume its higher than the R34's 1KHz. basically, its able to use more of its power all the time instead of relying on a high output engine to use when the track allows.

honestly the awd system is the biggest secret to how the gtr is able to do what it does. there are no secrets to suspension geometry, engine mechanics, or aerodynamics. all the gtr competitors are excellent in those aspects, but its missing the "intelligence" provided by attessa-ets.

im still trying to find out more imformation. the only other system close to attessa-ets is honda's sh-awd, but obviously not the same in execution.

and obviously, the gtr isnt much much much slower in the corners if its able to beat good times from other supercars. and its not like these nurburgring times are a fluke.

[HebbNH]

Originally Posted by E82tt6

What is it? A time warp?

Wormholes FTW!

[kabalm18]

I don't care what the GTR does(Or claims to do)! I would take a GT3 any day of the week! Just look at the above pictures!!!!

[E82tt6]

In the CnD Lightning Lap, the 430 Scud was faster through all the highspeed corners, and faster in general. An 430 Scud is NOT as fast as an Enzo, CGT, or Zonda F in any measure of performance.

AWD is great for better exit speed in low speed corners, but it's irrelevant when it only buys you an extra 4mph of speed on a car that will put 20-30 mph on you over the course of the straight regardless.

I just can't come up with any sort of explaination, other that Nissan cheating, to be honest.