[ideliver]

Originally Posted by Nikolas

That has to be the most ridiculous braking comparison I have ever seen. Only one question: How much do each of those vehicles weigh. I have no doubt the cayenne is heavier. Weight has a huge affect on braking over snow/ice.

Not that I agree standard braking is improved with AWD, but engine braking and cornering is improved with AWD in slick conditions.

Cayenne AS v Cayenne winter tire....the AS could not complete the turn


The winter tire-equipped Cayenne stopped in an average distance of about 61 feet, while the all-season tire-equipped Cayenne took 102 feet (an additional 41 feet or about two and one-half car lengths). A 41-foot difference in stopping distance during a panic stop at 30 mph on a snow-packed road is more than enough to determine whether it's a near miss or an accident!

The cornering comparison measured the tires' ability to provide traction during a 90-degree left-hand corner. We drove the two cars nose-to-tail beginning at 15 mph and increased the speeds on successive runs. When we attempted to drive through the corner at 25 mph, only the winter tire-equipped Cayenne was able to complete it, while the all-season tire-equipped Cayenne slid off the road. Even though the all-season equipped Cayenne included Porsche Stability Management, the PSM system could not overcome the laws of physics when the tires' traction limit was exceeded.

Please watch the vids..so much for running AS tires with AWD...it couldn't complete the turn...

Now...that S4 with winter tires= snow machine

I am talking about tires...you are talking about something else..

Winter tires for the winter...summer tires for the summer...AS=no season

The original pic would never have happened if the the BMW was running appropriate winter tires...that is the only point I am making...

BTW...edmonds brake testing...

Cayenne 60 to 0 in 116 ft and 30 to 0 in 27 feet
335i 60 to 0 in 112 ft and 30 to 0 in 27 feet

Both cars have capable brakes...its the tires in the snow that make the difference...I would recommend people not try to "get by" with AS if they experiece real winter driving...

[boombastic]

he is way too defensive. In the other thread, he used the listing for "Ward's announces 10 Best Engines for 2009 ( Dec 5, 2008 )" to question the listing for 2010 (Dec 9th 2009) .

Originally Posted by dr325i

WOW, another...even dumber post...this is becoming funny.
More please, noob... (in a mean time, read who's currently in the lead...)

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by boombastic

he is way too defensive. In the other thread, he used the listing for "Ward's announces 10 Best Engines for 2009 ( Dec 5, 2008 )" to question the listing for 2010 (Dec 9th 2009) .

I understand his position though... I remember when I first got my 325 (May 2005), I also argued that 325 6MT was faster than the 330 AT and I wasn't the only one with the same opinion...
Both are awesome cars IMO, almost identical in many aspects...

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by dr325i

WOW, another...even dumber post...this is becoming funny.
More please, noob... (in a mean time, read who's currently in the lead...)

wat?

BMW, the world’s biggest builder of luxury cars, said its global group sales rose 11.5% to 107,686 cars in November.

BMW only sales were 90,383 cars.

Audi, a unit of Europe’s largest auto group, Volkswagen AG, said it sold 82,750 cars for the month, compared with 75,965 in November of 2008.

source: http://www.livemint.com/2009/12/0816...ease-in-N.html

Confirmation source for BMW's number.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aT_RRVPO8O.E

Pretty sure I'm reading the correct figures.

[footie]

If you take North America's figure from both manufacturers overall sales you will find that Audi are the bigger seller and by 2012 they will globally out sell BMW, ever with BMW's cut price policy there.

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by footie

If you take North America's figure from both manufacturers overall sales you will find that Audi are the bigger seller and by 2012 they will globally out sell BMW, ever with BMW's cut price policy there.

Ah, ok. Guess that makes sense then.

[footie]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

Ah, ok. Guess that makes sense then.

The problem for BMW is that Audi have a parent company with bottomless pockets and a portfolio of brands with a wealth of experience to draw on to take the battle to both BMW and Mercedes.

Heaven knows whether Audi will stick with the current chassis design or improve it even more, shifting the engine ever more back to improve the balance or whether they will shift from fwd to rwd for their mainstream models while retaining the awd for their sportiest version, yeah this is very much on the cards if you read between the lines has been reportably discussed at the highest levels.

Frankly I love both brands but I personally hope Audi don't try an become another BMW type product, we need variety and difference choices but either way I believe Audi will be the brand to watch in the near future.

[backtoreality15]

Originally Posted by smellfish

Just throw some chains on

This made my day.