[ourlee]

Originally Posted by MMMGuy60

You are clueless then. One of the more enjoyable car I ever own was a Miata (low performance). Porsche Cayman/Boxster, at least the base models doesn't have the performance of the M2 but has way better engaging experience than an M2, and I own an M2. I rather play GT on the PS5 than clicking pedals to change gears.

And YES, shifting in stop and go traffic is more enjoyable experience to me than gas/brake of any auto. The new Tesla Model 3 Performance is the car for you if all you care is performance. Nothing come remotely close to the performance for the dollar.

To be fair the manual in my nc2 wasn’t amazing by any stretch

[DO_e90]

Originally Posted by Digitalprty

This.

If you want the manual, you’ll know it. If you’re not sure, you’ll probably be happier with the auto.

I remember I was on the fence myself when deciding about the M cars. My dealer had a G80 manual and a G82 in ZF8. I sat in the auto and said “this is a cool car.” I then sat in the manual G80 and instantly felt it. That THIS is what I wanted. So I went with a manual G87

Delivery should be this week

[Sleeper]

I think the debate for AT vs 6MT also really depends on what else you have available in your garage.

Side note - anyone else experience crushing guilt if auto rev-match is on? The car will rev match better than me 99% of the time but sure feels like cheating.

[ourlee]

If it was civic R quality and had closer gearing I may consider it. But what is rubbery? Is that the same or opposite the civic R?

[NewToM]

Originally Posted by Sleeper

I think the debate for AT vs 6MT also really depends on what else you have available in your garage.

Side note - anyone else experience crushing guilt if auto rev-match is on? The car will rev match better than me 99% of the time but sure feels like cheating.

I love it lol…

[DailyDownshift]

Even though us manuals are at a bit of a disadvantage when it comes to racing and what not, I definitely have not regretted my choice. Don't get me wrong, the manual isn't perfect.. but it just feels sooo good. Lots of power and RWD is an awesome combo.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by Sleeper

I think the debate for AT vs 6MT also really depends on what else you have available in your garage.

Side note - anyone else experience crushing guilt if auto rev-match is on? The car will rev match better than me 99% of the time but sure feels like cheating.

I agree, it does boil down to what else is in the garage. If I didn't already have a car with no third pedal that I could use to commute and cart other people around, I would not get a MT M2. I might not get a M2 but instead an M3.

[beren]

Manual all the way and this car is my daily driver.

[murderspice]

Originally Posted by ourlee

If it was civic R quality and had closer gearing I may consider it. But what is rubbery? Is that the same or opposite the civic R?

I always thought “rubbery” described the feeling of the shifter “boinging” out of gears. Its like, you hit a certain threshold in the linkage and the shifter just “pops out,” like you bounced it off a piece of rubber. I may be wrong though.

[Sleeper]

Originally Posted by murderspice

I always thought “rubbery” described the feeling of the shifter “boinging” out of gears. Its like, you hit a certain threshold in the linkage and the shifter just “pops out,” like you bounced it off a piece of rubber. I may be wrong though.

To me - and why I swapped out my shifter for a Rogue Engineering SSK - it’s more the feeling at the end of a shift. Throws are shorter and take a bit more effort, and overall it’s louder, but now gears changes snick into place and the shift lever stops at the end of the throw. Stock had a dampened “rubbery” feeling at the end of the throw, a bit squishy and vague. It felt comfortable, quiet, dampened and… stock.

I think the OEM shifter is actually quite good - but can always be a bit better with some compromise elsewhere.

[Flea]

Nah. Automatics are for sedans and trucks.

[DSTR]

Originally Posted by Flea

Nah. Automatics are for sedans and trucks.

In your opinion.

[KC87ZB]

Originally Posted by Flea

Nah. Automatics are for sedans and trucks.

Should have included minivans too

[BroDoze]

Include almost every new performance vehicle coming out too, while you're at it.

[Covfefe]

Performance and driving merits aside, the ZF8 will (already has?) age poorly. As time goes on, the auto will only become less and less desirable.

[BroDoze]

Originally Posted by Covfefe

Performance and driving merits aside, the ZF8 will (already has?) age poorly. As time goes on, the auto will only become less and less desirable.

How you figure?

It's a great auto - top of the heap in slushboxville.

[Covfefe]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

How you figure?

It's a great auto - top of the heap in slushboxville.

That it may be, but it just isn't as good a solution as an SMG, DCT, or 1-2 speed EV depending on what you're looking for. The only cases to make for the ZF8 are pretty niche. A 6 speed is timeless.

[brad65ford]

Originally Posted by Covfefe

Performance and driving merits aside, the ZF8 will (already has?) age poorly. As time goes on, the auto will only become less and less desirable.

Agree it does its job, but I'm pick as f. Even after XHP tweaking int he g80 it was never as awesome as the dct in the f87's.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by brad65ford

Agree it does its job, but I'm pick as f. Even after XHP tweaking int he g80 it was never as awesome as the dct in the f87's.

its the main thing really preventing me from lusting after the M3CX badly. i am holding out against hope that there will be a swan song M3XC 6 speed (there wont be)

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by Covfefe

That it may be, but it just isn't as good a solution as an SMG, DCT, or 1-2 speed EV depending on what you're looking for. The only cases to make for the ZF8 are pretty niche. A 6 speed is timeless.

The ZF6 and the ZF8 which is based on the are the best autos on the market. Full lock up, engine braking and can handle lots more HP and torque.

With xHP you can adjust line pressure, shift speed etc.

The case for the ZF is no lift shifts. The ZF is faster than the MT.

That being said, I want a MT in my M2 because I have an i4.

[Covfefe]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

The case for the ZF is no lift shifts. The ZF is faster than the MT.

"It's faster than a manual" is not a case specifically for the ZF8. It's a case for all automatically-shifting transmissions, a category in which is the ZF8 does not stand out. As I said before, it's bested by SMGs, DCTs, and 1 or 2 speed EV gearboxes depending on what your benchmarks are.

I've owned ZF6 and ZF8 cars, so I know how they drive. They just don't offer anything better than the aforementioned automatically shifting transmissions which is why ZF8-equipped performance cars won't age well imo. No slush box ever has.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

The ZF is faster than the MT.

Not really, hell, if you shift fast enough, a manual is as fast or faster than a DCT equipped car.

Here ya go: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-drive-review/

Although the dual-clutch saw minimal gains, it’s the six-speed manual that most impressed us. The manual gearbox enables better control of the explosive torque off the line and requires a single—albeit crunchy—shift to reach 60 mph, conquering the feat in 3.9 seconds. Yes, the manual is quicker than the automatic (applause!) even if just barely. It also bests the previous M2 equipped with the manual by 0.3 second to 60 mph and in the quarter-mile, crossing the line in 12.4 seconds.

Gearing of course plays a big part in acceleration but all else being equal, you're not losing anything with going manual over auto but gaining everything, with the most important being actually enjoying driving the car.