[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by lakefront

Not a Rodgers worshipper like a lot of Packer fans....I think he's almost completely wrong in his feud with GB management. Just feel its wrong he gets blamed for his team's failings. No different than Russell Wilson or anyone else. As has been said many times, QB gets too much credit and too much blame. The ESPN attitude.

rodgers is a great qb, dont get me wrong, but he has shown he is a great regular season qb like peyton was, but isnt a great post season qb like brady.

brady has turned small slow white wrs into fringe HOF guys and is a completely different animal once the playoffs hit.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

rodgers is a great qb, dont get me wrong, but he has shown he is a great regular season qb like peyton was, but isnt a great post season qb like brady.

brady has turned small slow white wrs into fringe HOF guys and is a completely different animal once the playoffs hit.

Well said, like Amendola, Edelman who was a QB, etc.

I don't think there is any other QB you want in a SB or playoff game other than Brady. He has the most experience and wins in the post season:

<--Most teams would have just given up down 28 to 3 in the 3rd with 8 minutes left.

Look at Mahomes and how he was pressured in the SB. Brady was pressured 23 times in this game just 6 less than 29 that patrick faced. Led a 25 point comeback and put up 34 points total. We all know how Mahones faired last SB zero touch downs, 3 field goals with a big loss 31-9.

I am happy for the Buccaneers. That franchise needed someone like Tom. It is almost guaranteed he will be back in the SB this year yet again. MFer must have made a deal with the Devil to not age. He is unreal.

[Bongoxxx]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

rodgers is a great qb, dont get me wrong, but he has shown he is a great regular season qb like peyton was, but isnt a great post season qb like brady.

brady has turned small slow white wrs into fringe HOF guys and is a completely different animal once the playoffs hit.

We could go back and forth all day on Brady…is he a HOF QB, yes no doubt.
Is he the most accomplished QB, yes no doubt.

Is he the most talented at his position - not even top 10.
Marino, Elway, P Manning, Montana, Young - I could go on with retired players and there are at least 5 playing today with better arm talent.

Again, would I take him over a lot of those guys in certain instances? Yes, as he gets the job done when it counts, but he even admits there are more talented players than him at the position.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by Bongoxxx

We could go back and forth all day on Brady…is he a HOF QB, yes no doubt.
Is he the most accomplished QB, yes no doubt.

Is he the most talented at his position - not even top 10.
Marino, Elway, P Manning, Montana, Young - I could go on with retired players and there are at least 5 playing today with better arm talent.

Again, would I take him over a lot of those guys in certain instances? Yes, as he gets the job done when it counts, but he even admits there are more talented players than him at the position.

I will take a brain then knows when to call an audible, how to read the defense, where and when to throw the ball so it is protected and so is the player over someone who can throw it farther or with better accuracy aka 'Arm Talent'. Arm talent does not mean much if you make bad decisions with the ball or can't spot a blitz, man, cover, or throw more interceptions etc.

It is great you mentioned Peyton & Marino man they loved to throw Ints: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...int_career.htm


8 Dan Marino 252 1983-1999
9 Peyton Manning 251 1998-2015
13 Drew Brees 243 2001-2020
33 Tom Brady 193 2000-2021

Just that stat shows a lot. Brady has played 4 more seasons than PM and 5 more than Marino, not counting this season. Imagine if those guys continued another 5 years and how many more Ints they would have thrown. Right now they have 50 more than Brady and played basically 5 years less or 90 regular season games less than Brady while having significantly more INTs.


Better arm talent does not equal a better QB. Arm talent does not win SBs in general. It is the whole package. Talking about arm talent is like me saying "I could go on with retired players and there are at least 5 playing today with better mobility than Brady" It's a stat that does not matter in the grand scheme of things. I'll take smarts over physical talent any day of the week. No one talk about mobility or arm talent when discussing the GOAT. It is their entire body of work that is considered, not a one off stat.



NFL Passing Yards Career Playoffs Leaders:
1 Tom Brady 12,449 2000-2021
2 Peyton Manning 7,339 1998-2015
3 Brett Favre 5,855 1991-2010
4 Joe Montana 5,772 1979-1994

When TB retires he will likely have over double of 2nd place. He already has more than doubled of 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th etc. He will probably die with this record as well as many others.


Finally Marino, Montana, Young, have all said publicly TB is the GOAT. So...I think their opinion matters more than ours

[Bongoxxx]

Originally Posted by Torgus

I will take a brain then knows when to call an audible, how to read the defense, where and when to throw the ball so it is protected and so is the player over someone who can throw it farther or with better accuracy aka 'Arm Talent'. Arm talent does not mean much if you make bad decisions with the ball or can't spot a blitz, man, cover, or throw more interceptions etc.

It is great you mentioned Peyton & Marino man they loved to throw Ints: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...int_career.htm


8 Dan Marino 252 1983-1999
9 Peyton Manning 251 1998-2015
13 Drew Brees 243 2001-2020
33 Tom Brady 193 2000-2021

Just that stat shows a lot. Brady has played 4 more seasons than PM and 5 more than Marino, not counting this season. Imagine if those guys continued another 5 years and how many more Ints they would have thrown. Right now they have 50 more than Brady and played basically 5 years less or 90 regular season games less than Brady while having significantly more INTs.


Better arm talent does not equal a better QB. Arm talent does not win SBs in general. It is the whole package. Talking about arm talent is like me saying "I could go on with retired players and there are at least 5 playing today with better mobility than Brady" It's a stat that does not matter in the grand scheme of things. I'll take smarts over physical talent any day of the week. No one talk about mobility or arm talent when discussing the GOAT. It is their entire body of work that is considered, not a one off stat.



NFL Passing Yards Career Playoffs Leaders:
1 Tom Brady 12,449 2000-2021
2 Peyton Manning 7,339 1998-2015
3 Brett Favre 5,855 1991-2010
4 Joe Montana 5,772 1979-1994

When TB retires he will likely have over double of 2nd place. He already has more than doubled of 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th etc. He will probably die with this record as well as many others.


Finally Marino, Montana, Young, have all said publicly TB is the GOAT. So...I think their opinion matters more than ours

So you want to quote INTs - sure, then throw Rodgers in the mix, the guy usually has less interceptions in a season them most do in a game or two.
Rodgers is the ‘smartest’ hands down. Also Marino, Brees and Manning etc were more slingers than Brady, Brady rarely throws the ball downfield relative to those guys so I would expect them to have more INTs as they are making tougher throws then the 5-10 yards Brady has made a living throwing to the “unknowns” like Gronk, Edelman etc. unless of course Kevin King is out in coverage, then just chuck it

Whole body of work for a position in my books doesn’t include stats that are not controlled by the position - Brady did not win 7 Super Bowls, the team he played on did. I believe every team (or maybe only 6 of them) had a top 10 or better defence that contributed to the wins just as much or if not more than him. I would argue 90% of the QBs in the league would have won those SBs if they were the QB instead of Brady.

He will break many records (and I would hope he would considering how long he’s played) but he will not lead the league or break records in some other measures which are key to the position.

Again we will agree to disagree, Brady is the most accomplished QB of all time…not greatest of all time.

Next you’ll tell me Emmitt Smith is the greatest running back of all time

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by Bongoxxx

I would argue 90% of the QBs in the league would have won those SBs if they were the QB instead of Brady.

This is where the conversation stops.

You think in all 7 of his SB wins 90% of the QBs in the league could have won them if you removed TB and swapped in almost any QB? You can't be serious.

90% of the QBs in the league can come back from a 25 point deficit in the 3rd quarter of a SB with 8 minutes left to play. Pahlease.

There are 32 teams in the league. 90% means any QB from 28 of the teams would have won each and every SB. I just can't...so many QBs are trash let alone the ones of the bottom 4 teams or who have the bottom 4 worst stats.


In your opinion what would TB have to do now in his career to be the greatest of all time QB? Everyone said before he had to get away from BB and do it with another team and coach to prove it was not BB and the team and the patriot way aka the system here in MA. There are very few records for him to break but it does not sound like records matter to you. So what does he have to do before he retires to be the GOAT in your opinion? I will follow up with your comment about 90% of QBs makes me really question your thought process and seriousness to this discussion...

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by Bongoxxx

So you want to quote INTs - sure, then throw Rodgers in the mix, the guy usually has less interceptions in a season them most do in a game or two.
Rodgers is the ‘smartest’ hands down. Also Marino, Brees and Manning etc were more slingers than Brady, Brady rarely throws the ball downfield relative to those guys so I would expect them to have more INTs as they are making tougher throws then the 5-10 yards Brady has made a living throwing to the “unknowns” like Gronk, Edelman etc. unless of course Kevin King is out in coverage, then just chuck it

Whole body of work for a position in my books doesn’t include stats that are not controlled by the position - Brady did not win 7 Super Bowls, the team he played on did. I believe every team (or maybe only 6 of them) had a top 10 or better defence that contributed to the wins just as much or if not more than him. I would argue 90% of the QBs in the league would have won those SBs if they were the QB instead of Brady.

He will break many records (and I would hope he would considering how long he’s played) but he will not lead the league or break records in some other measures which are key to the position.

Again we will agree to disagree, Brady is the most accomplished QB of all time…not greatest of all time.

Next you’ll tell me Emmitt Smith is the greatest running back of all time

you only have to look at the Bucs to know thats not the case. Basically the same team with Jameis at the helm went 7-9. And Jameis is one of those guys with "great" arm talent you talk about, but no where near the smarts of Brady. Or you can look at the 2008 season, a year after going 18-1 and losing the superbowl, where brady was hurt, cassel came in and they missed the playoffs.

And while we are on the topic of elite arm talent, being able to throw 80yards isnt the only thing that shows arm talent. Being able to accurately place balls anywhere on the field is a big part of it, and Brady has shown he is one of the best in the league at that. And FWIW, brady last season had more air yards per completion than rodgers. 9.1 intended air yards per attempt and 7.1 completed air yards per completion to rodgers 7.9 and 5.5.

Brady's game has never been focused on deep passing. Mainly because hes never had true deep threats and/or the time in the pocket to wait for the deep ball. But when you give him deep threats like moss or evans or godwin, he has shown hes more than capable of airing it out.

and what records are you talking about? Single season records? For career records, the only one hes not going to hold after this season is Ints. Yards, TDs, Completions, and on and on will all his.

Edit: took at look at Mahomes Air Yards and Brady was better last season than him as well. Mahomes 8.4 and 4.2

[Bongoxxx]

Originally Posted by Torgus

This is where the conversation stops.

You think in all 7 of his SB wins 90% of the QBs in the league could have won them if you removed TB and swapped in almost any QB? You can't be serious.

90% of the QBs in the league can come back from a 25 point deficit in the 3rd quarter of a SB with 8 minutes left to play. Pahlease.

There are 32 teams in the league. 90% means any QB from 28 of the teams would have won each and every SB. I just can't...so many QBs are trash let alone the ones of the bottom 4 teams or who have the bottom 4 worst stats.


In your opinion what would TB have to do now in his career to be the greatest of all time QB? Everyone said before he had to get away from BB and do it with another team and coach to prove it was not BB and the team and the patriot way aka the system here in MA. There are very few records for him to break but it does not sound like records matter to you. So what does he have to do before he retires to be the GOAT in your opinion? I will follow up with your comment about 90% of QBs makes me really question your thought process and seriousness to this discussion...

Again you love Brady, I get it. He was on a great team with a great defence for his SB wins. Yes I will say on the same team, same situation, the majority of NFL starting QBs will win those Super Bowls.

The comeback? You mean the greatest Super Bowl flop by the team leading? Or a defence that finally shut down the offence and kept getting the ball back for the offence? Yes, Brady scored when he got the ball back, but hey the defence kept getting it back for him to be able to score…maybe I missed it where 12 swapped sides and started playing for the defence and “won” that game for them. The team won that game and he played a big part, but other QBs have been down and won big games like that too.

What does he have to do to be the GOAT? Nothing IN MY OPINION he will never be the greatest QB of all time IN MY OPINION.
Obviously in yours and many other he is, but there are many like me that do not think he’s the greatest QB of all time - most accomplished yes, one of the best leaders yes, one you would want to win a clutch game yes I could go on, but in my opinion he is not the greatest to play the position.

[Bongoxxx]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

you only have to look at the Bucs to know thats not the case. Basically the same team with Jameis at the helm went 7-9. And Jameis is one of those guys with "great" arm talent you talk about, but no where near the smarts of Brady. Or you can look at the 2008 season, a year after going 18-1 and losing the superbowl, where brady was hurt, cassel came in and they missed the playoffs.

And while we are on the topic of elite arm talent, being able to throw 80yards isnt the only thing that shows arm talent. Being able to accurately place balls anywhere on the field is a big part of it, and Brady has shown he is one of the best in the league at that. And FWIW, brady last season had more air yards per completion than rodgers. 9.1 intended air yards per attempt and 7.1 completed air yards per completion to rodgers 7.9 and 5.5.

Brady's game has never been focused on deep passing. Mainly because hes never had true deep threats and/or the time in the pocket to wait for the deep ball. But when you give him deep threats like moss or evans or godwin, he has shown hes more than capable of airing it out.

and what records are you talking about? Single season records? For career records, the only one hes not going to hold after this season is Ints. Yards, TDs, Completions, and on and on will all his.

Edit: took at look at Mahomes Air Yards and Brady was better last season than him as well. Mahomes 8.4 and 4.2

Basically the same team? Maybe I missed Gronk, playing for the Bucs, or Brown or some of the defence. The Bucs team was fundamentally different Brady vs Winston team. The first thing they did was change the playbook to suit Brady’s style. Leaving BB and the Patriots and going to a team that arguably had the most talented skilled players Brady has ever played with was proving a point? Yes, it proved he could move to a great team, with a great offence and defence and he could step in and win.

I’m not talking about guys who can throw it 80 yards, they can all sling it. Most can’t drop dimes on a regular basis - make the throws no one else can, throw a guy “open” because he has the talent to place the ball where no one can, zip it past a defender before he even sees it coming. That is elite arm talent and gifted QB play, that number dwindles when you start looking at those qualities.

Guys like Favre could do that, but clearly he wasn’t ‘smart’ with the ball, given all his interceptions, he played the QB position like a LB.

Mahomes has that talent, he can make all the throws, from all the angles, unbalanced, bad footwork etc, but your jaw drops on a regular basis watching him play. Same with Rodgers, he makes throws look routine that others could only dream of all while taking care of the ball and people take it for granted.

For me, Brady doesn’t have that level of talent, but as I’ve said he is a great QB and the most accomplished to play the position.

[shoei]

Not loving Brady and not considering him to be the GOAT is one thing but to say he's not in the top 10 is just straight sipping on the haterade. I loathe Tom Brady and anything to do with MA. (Massachusetts - only illustrating because going off of your spelling of certain words, I don't think you're American. Or you may be and Siri spell check is set to Canada or another country, I dunno) but I do appreciate the two Super Bowls he's gifted my Giants. So from a guy out of NY, who's preprogrammed to dislike anything coming out of that neighboring state, there is no current QB who is alive that I would rather have lead my team in the Super Bowl. Periodt. He's a winner, he just goes out and wins. Regardless of how much credit you want to give the defense or the team, he's the leader and the rest of it falls on him. The defense wouldn't have stepped up time and time again, if they felt he couldn't overcome a 28-3 deficit in the Super Bowl. Your arm strength argument is moot as well. Cam Newton has superior arm strength to Brady. So does Roger's. And Mahommes and Lamar Jackson. Arm strength doesn't mean shit, you can prove that looking at your own top 5. Steve Young couldn't throw the ball 50 yards from his knees but he managed to do "alright."

Everybody knows the Patriots are extremely frugal when it comes to paying their own player FA's. Look no further than Chandler Jones for a perfect example.

You're right, he's not a superior athlete. He doesn't have a cannon. But his decision making and football IQ is off the charts. Consistently this man has taken players that didn't or don't amount to shit on other teams and elevated them. That's the difference his presence alone makes on a team. The elites have it, the Manning's, the Montana's et all, but nobody has done it as long or as successfully as Brady has.

Athletes these days are on another level. Look at DK Metcalf. People the size of a Gwagon should NOT be able to run that fucking fast. Lamar can chuck the ball out of the stadium and does jump passes. Even Mahommes is on another level athletic wise, but they'd have to keep up their pace for the next 10-15 years to even match or surpass Brady. No injuries, no arrests, so on and so forth. Lamar has perennially one of the best defenses in the league. That's what the Ravens do exceptionally well, just like the Steelers. Mahommes has a treasure trove of weapons on both sides of the ball. Brady has never had the top ranked defense. They (Pats) consistently been in the top 10 (give or take about 5 seasons where not even in the top 10) and they've always rotated players out. Bellicheck doesn't even draft well. Always trading out of the first round. They draft with culture fit in mind more so than talent. It's what they've done extremely well past 20 years.

I throughly love watching Mahommes, Jackson, Wilson, and even Herbert (I think he's gonna be a stud) play, but it's a completely different era. They grew up playing Madden much like I did and the way they play shows. Only in madden would you consistently roll out across the field and then sling it across your chest to the opposite side. This is something they started to do in their younger years. Something the Montana's, Elways, Young's, and Bradys never did. Cuz you would've got your ass chewed out, even in pee-wee football.

He may not be the goat to you, but the mofo is easily without a doubt in the football top 5 QB's to ever lace them up.

There was a round table a few years back, 5+ years ago. I wish I could find it but it consisted of Manning, Montana, Young, Rodgers and one or two more. I tried looking for it but it's not longer available on the NFL website. Long story short, Young bowed down to Montana. Montana bowed down to Brady. He said - "Tom took his place some years ago." And again, this was done over 5+ years ago. Some of the greatest QB's that ever played and some of the greatest QB's currently playing all bowed down to Brady. It's purely sipping on Haterade to say he's not in the top 10, lol. And this is coming from a New Yorker and a Giants fan.

[shoei]

Fack me. Just dawned on me that I just defended Tom Brady. Wtf, lol.

World must be coming to an end or something. To be fair, this about the closest we've seen apocalypse in our lifetime.

[TiMSport]

Funny story today. An AT&T technician (reminded me of Dave Chappelle the way he told stories) came to my house to install my new fiber 1000 Internet setup (!) and we got to talking about sports and football in particular. He's from NYC so he knows all about the pain of the Giants (LoL) but anyway we talked about Brady a bit. He said something I found funny and interesting (and perhaps true) about TB.

He said if he's losing a game and he's on the sidelines sitting by himself and he's looking down at his play call wristband(?), it's going to be game over. He said he was in a bar watching the infamous meltdown by the Falcons in the Super Bowl and even though the Pats were down big he saw TB looking pissed and isolated on the bench but was staring at his play-call wristband and he said to the guys sitting around him. "Ahh shit, it's over for the Falcons". Everyone thought he was out of his mind. Well we all know what happened in the end. Lol.

He might actually be on to something. He also said something about there has never been a $100M QB that has won the Super Bowl. As soon as quarterbacks get paid the big money and it's anything over $100 million (ex Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, etc.), they're not winning a SB, or at least it has yet to happen. I'm not actually sure if that's accurate but it might be. If anyone knows I'd be interested in hearing it. Actually didn't Mahomes get a big contract north of $100M and then lost that last SB??

On a side note, this dude was f'n hilarious telling me some crazy ass stories and what he's seen over the years doing installs. Unbelievable shit too.

[shoei]

Originally Posted by TiMSport

Funny story today. An AT&T technician (reminded me of Dave Chappelle the way he told stories) came to my house to install my new fiber 1000 Internet setup (!) and we got to talking about sports and football in particular. He's from NYC so he knows all about the pain of the Giants (LoL) but anyway we talked about Brady a bit. He said something I found funny and interesting (and perhaps true) about TB.

He said if he's losing a game and he's on the sidelines sitting by himself and he's looking down at his play call wristband(?), it's going to be game over. He said he was in a bar watching the infamous meltdown by the Falcons in the Super Bowl and even though the Pats were down big he saw TB looking pissed and isolated on the bench but was staring at his play-call wristband and he said to the guys sitting around him. "Ahh shit, it's over for the Falcons". Everyone thought he was out of his mind. Well we all know what happened in the end. Lol.

He might actually be on to something. He also said something about there has never been a $100M QB that has won the Super Bowl. As soon as quarterbacks get paid the big money and it's anything over $100 million (ex Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, etc.), they're not winning a SB, or at least it has yet to happen. I'm not actually sure if that's accurate but it might be. If anyone knows I'd be interested in hearing it. Actually didn't Mahomes get a big contract north of $100M and then lost that last SB??

The wristband thing is accurate, lol. He's not the only one to mention it. 20 years of experience in the NFL, mofo's got plays and plays and plays memorized. When he goes to wrist, it's shit we've probably never seen before is the general consensus lol. It's his fucking cheat code like he's playing gawdamn Madden.

We will always have a love / hate thing with Brady. He's gifted us two Super Bowls after all.

Recently he said that he'd give up TWO of his SB's to get that one back. He said without hesitation. I take great pride in his forever torment. He deserves it after all the torment he's caused for two decades lol. How you like dem apples type scenario.

[Bongoxxx]

Originally Posted by shoei

Fack me. Just dawned on me that I just defended Tom Brady. Wtf, lol.

World must be coming to an end or something. To be fair, this about the closest we've seen apocalypse in our lifetime.

Lol! I don’t disagree with anything that any of you are saying…I don’t get why you gentlemen can’t get this. In my opinion (along with others) Brady isn’t the GOAT to play the QB position.

I personally view the GOAT as the most skilled at the position. He clearly leads in a few of the skills required but is lacking compared to others that have played or are currently playing the position.

And sorry what does me being Canadian have to do with anything? I’m Canadian so I don’t know football? So let’s say, you’re American so you know nothing about hockey, lacrosse, basketball and politics

[shoei]

Originally Posted by Bongoxxx

Lol! I don’t disagree with anything that any of you are saying…I don’t get why you gentlemen can’t get this. In my opinion (along with others) Brady isn’t the GOAT to play the QB position.

I personally view the GOAT as the most skilled at the position. He clearly leads in a few of the skills required but is lacking compared to others that have played or are currently playing the position.

And sorry what does me being Canadian have to do with anything? I’m Canadian so I don’t know football? So let’s say, you’re American so you know nothing about hockey, lacrosse, basketball and politics

No man. The Canadian reference I meant when I abbreviated MA is all. That's it. I didn't want you to take offense that I explained what MA is. Nothing to do with the sport, lol. Much like I'm sure some of my fellow Americans may not know AB is Alberta or NT is Northwest Territories, so just clarifying IN CASE you didn't know is all my man. Just being proactive and polite lol.

So much for Canadians all being super friendly!!

(Spent a lot of my youth in Canada. Hockey amongst other things lol. Plus, I love me some ketchup chips, haha…)

[TiMSport]

Lol. No offense to fellow Canadians here on this forum but NO, they are not all super friendly. Having lived a large portion of my life in the PAC NW, I have a lot of experience, especially close to the border of BC. Oh and Quebec has been known to be a bit unfriendly at times.

Perhaps French Canadians are a different breed, lol.

[Bongoxxx]

Originally Posted by shoei

No man. The Canadian reference I meant when I abbreviated MA is all. That's it. I didn't want you to take offense that I explained what MA is. Nothing to do with the sport, lol. Much like I'm sure some of my fellow Americans may not know AB is Alberta or NT is Northwest Territories, so just clarifying IN CASE you didn't know is all my man. Just being proactive and polite lol.

So much for Canadians all being super friendly!!

(Spent a lot of my youth in Canada. Hockey amongst other things lol. Plus, I love me some ketchup chips, haha…)

No offence taken…my sister played volleyball at Northeastern, so I know MA. My grandmother was born in Philly and I used to spend my summers in NJ (Stone Harbor, and still go annually for a week or two). I had multiple full scholarship offers for volleyball across the states until I ‘wrecked’ my shoulder in my senior year and I’ve travelled all of the continental states and Hawaii, just haven’t hit Alaska yet.

[Bongoxxx]

Originally Posted by TiMSport

Lol. No offense to fellow Canadians here on this forum but NO, they are not all super friendly. Having lived a large portion of my life in the PAC NW, I have a lot of experience, especially close to the border of BC. Oh and Quebec has been known to be a bit unfriendly at times.

Perhaps French Canadians are a different breed, lol.

Lived in BC for a year, and I always found it funny how the majority hate Ontario and/or Toronto even though most moved from Toronto or other parts of Ontario to BC.

And yes, depending on the area French Canadians are ‘interesting’

[TiMSport]

Yeah it's kind of like the East Coast v. West Coast here in the US. We just don't have any of the interesting French variants down here.

[Bongoxxx]

Originally Posted by shoei

(Spent a lot of my youth in Canada. Hockey amongst other things lol. Plus, I love me some ketchup chips, haha…)

Some good comedy….skip to 5:15 for a review of Ketchup chips.

[hellrotm]

Rodgers is overrated. I would like GB to trade him, so he can go somewhere else and not win Superbowls.

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by Bongoxxx

Basically the same team? Maybe I missed Gronk, playing for the Bucs, or Brown or some of the defence. The Bucs team was fundamentally different Brady vs Winston team. The first thing they did was change the playbook to suit Brady’s style. Leaving BB and the Patriots and going to a team that arguably had the most talented skilled players Brady has ever played with was proving a point? Yes, it proved he could move to a great team, with a great offence and defence and he could step in and win.

I’m not talking about guys who can throw it 80 yards, they can all sling it. Most can’t drop dimes on a regular basis - make the throws no one else can, throw a guy “open” because he has the talent to place the ball where no one can, zip it past a defender before he even sees it coming. That is elite arm talent and gifted QB play, that number dwindles when you start looking at those qualities.

Guys like Favre could do that, but clearly he wasn’t ‘smart’ with the ball, given all his interceptions, he played the QB position like a LB.

Mahomes has that talent, he can make all the throws, from all the angles, unbalanced, bad footwork etc, but your jaw drops on a regular basis watching him play. Same with Rodgers, he makes throws look routine that others could only dream of all while taking care of the ball and people take it for granted.

For me, Brady doesn’t have that level of talent, but as I’ve said he is a great QB and the most accomplished to play the position.

The only different starter on the Bucs defense last year was rookie safety winfield. The rest of the starters were the same. Their best DT, Vita Vea, was on IR for most the season as well. On offense, you had Brady instead of Jameis, Gronk instead of Howard and Brate (both good TEs) and a rookie RT. Brown took over for Scotty Miller in the slot at times, but the team actually did better when Miller was playing, and Scotty started the majority of the season in the slot.

The offense itself wasnt drastically different either. They still took similar amounts of shots downfield, but Brady is a significantly better and smarter QB than Jameis and didnt turn the ball over 30+ times. That is the biggest difference in the 2 teams. Who knew not putting your defense in bad spots every game would make a significant impact.

Originally Posted by Bongoxxx

Lol! I don’t disagree with anything that any of you are saying…I don’t get why you gentlemen can’t get this. In my opinion (along with others) Brady isn’t the GOAT to play the QB position.

I personally view the GOAT as the most skilled at the position. He clearly leads in a few of the skills required but is lacking compared to others that have played or are currently playing the position.

And sorry what does me being Canadian have to do with anything? I’m Canadian so I don’t know football? So let’s say, you’re American so you know nothing about hockey, lacrosse, basketball and politics

You are confusing skill with athletic ability. Sure, there are plenty of QBs more athletic than Brady, but that is just one part of being a QB. Knowing the game, knowing how to exploit defenses, being able to make the right throw and putting it in the right spot, are all things that Brady does better than any other QB out there, while still having elite arm talent. Seasons where he has a legit deep threat, he is continually dropping dimes down the field. Which is why he had the record for most TDs in a season with Moss and why Moss has the record for most TDs in a season with Brady.

Just watch some brady film, and i dont mean just watching the game, watch the all 22 game film and other film from the games thats not on the broadcast. You start to appreciate the little things Brady does durig the game that gives him the edge. From figuring out the tendencies of a CB covering certain routes, so Brady can put the ball where the CB cant get it, to him figuring out certain defenders tells for blitzing/covering are during the game, its mind blowing. You can call the perfect game vs brady, and have all your players execute the play perfectly, and Brady will still find ways to exploit it.

And the way he has elevated average players to great players is something no one has done as consistently as him. Edelman, Amendola, Welker, etc. Those guys wouldnt have had the career they did without Brady. Amendola was cut from a couple practice squads before going to the Pats. Welker did absolutely nothing before and after the patriots. Edelman, a converted QB, is talked about as a fringe HOF in some NFL circles because of what he did with the patriots