[FrankMstein]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

Please define "living wage."

https://livingwage.mit.edu/

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by Tyga11

Seems like these fast food workers are making six figures now

Sorry, just catching up on all this at this late date, but full marks for having gotten my attention with that one.

If I was 19 years old today and had no meaningful qualifications beyond a willingness to show up on time and put in a full day's effort, I suspect that I too would be at least accepting of having to settle for being paid at the rate of an annual six-figure income. I mean, I would be entitled, right?

Now, if somehow I did succeed in achieving a six-figure income due to my facility at showing up on time for work and pouring caffeinated liquids, I'm certain that I, obviously, would be doing professional-level cartwheels at the end of every one of my brutal and intolerable shifts.

Or something like that, right? I mean, I don't know - it's so hard to keep up anymore, isn't it.

[..Rush..]

YEP!

[RickFLM4]

We walked into what was previously a sit down restaurant with pretty good food a couple of days ago. A host sat us down, handed us menus and then told us we needed to order from the bar and pick up our food and drinks there. We left without ordering, but fully expect the bill would still have a place for a tip if we had stayed, even though the server was completely eliminated from the equation now.

[F30lolz]

This reminds me I should have a tip jar in my office at work and see who’ll be stupid enough to leave me anything. I’ll absolutely loose it when car dealerships would ever start doing this for the salespeople/sales managers.

At that point, my hope for humanity will never be as low.

[TTV8M]

on to-go / pickup orders i usually dont tip, unless its a regular place i go, then i throw $1-$2 cash in the tip cup. theres a really good worker at dunkin donuts that says hello to me by name, so once a week or so, ill throw $5 in his tip cup.

but yeh , for sit down restaurants, back to regular 15-18-20% based on merit.

[TTV8M]

put a sign on it that says "help with coffee money please"

youd be surprised the results.......maybe......lol

Originally Posted by F30lolz

This reminds me I should have a tip jar in my office at work and see who’ll be stupid enough to leave me anything. I’ll absolutely loose it when car dealerships would ever start doing this for the salespeople/sales managers.

At that point, my hope for humanity will never be as low.

[TTV8M]

You can even get your own web link. I stumbled on this from some other guy ona. YouTube video

www.buymeacoffee.com

And then you can choose your own extension name. Like /yourname

[Lady Jane]

Crafty buggers...

[KevinC]

Originally Posted by tranquility

I really hate how they give you attitude when you don't tip (no "thank you"+sour face). Was just at a stand in a mall where they have ice cream, drinks, and I ordered a milkshake...they mean to tell me that the quality of milkshake changes from customer to customer? I'm already paying freaking 8 bucks for a reg milkshake, it's part of their job to prepare it...where's the added service? They should just tack it onto the price, I hate this expected crap. Needless to say, last time I go there.

[0-60Motorsports]

This year when we were in the States something pissed me off and I reduced or stopped tipping. No idea WTF it was LOL.

Only if someone gave us amazing service I would tip otherwise F No. A lot of people gave us exceptional service in restaurants we went to especially with our 1+ year old daughter so we tipped. But like baristas etc. I stopped tipping especially ones working for higher than minimum in fancy coffeeshops.

[Tyga11]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Drove through Starbucks yesterday. 4 dollars, went to pay with my watch closing in on the machine she extended to me. Before it didn’t work, the girl tells me “it’ll have a prompt first”.
So the drive through is asking for a tip for handing me a cup.

I zeroed it. Miss me with that.

Good job with the zero. They have the audacity to want a tip for a $5 coffee. They can go to hell

[Artemis]

Personally I prefer the European system.

Employers in Europe are required to pay their employees mandatory minimum wages. Otherwise they risk serious financial penalties and a criminal crackdown on their business. Hence, over here the waitress serving you a meal or the guy flipping a burger for you get properly paid and get social security benefits + they don't need to 'beg' a customer for helping them out with their indecent wages paid by their bosses: no embarrassing or discomforting scenes at the time of payment.

In Europe tipping is mostly no standard practice: you don't feel morally 'pressed' or even 'intimidated' to pay a tip and in most cases you won't be considered disrespectful or greedy if you don't leave a tip. Some waiters may think differently about it and expect a bonus at the end of a meal. Of course, also think long term: if you're known by restaurant staff to be a (very) appreciative client, you may get some perks (better table, extra service, more smiles, etc.). Give a bouncer nothing and he may remember you the next time around - give a bouncer a few euro coins and he will remember you the next time around - give a bouncer a €5 or €10 bill and he will certainly remember you the next time around.

You are free to leave a few euros on the table after your meal (cash = bigger chance that the waiter or waitress will get the money, but they can have a deal with their boss that all tips will line the pockets of the boss only) or to ask adding a small extra to the bill (for example rounding up: a €152 bill rounded up to €160 = €8 tip) as some sort of true/genuine bonus to express your gratitude for excellent service. However, if you leave, say, a €50 or €100 euro bill, on the table for the waitress, she will definitely appreciate the extraordinary bonus, but may equally suspect that you fancy her too much (making a pass on her) or that you're a 'show off' or a foreign tourist who is unaware of the local standard practice.

In Italy "coperto" (cutlery) exists for centuries. When Italian travelers stopped at an inn to seek shelter or cover during harsh weather but brought their own food in, they paid to use shared items (plates, silverware, tables and chairs). Nowadays "coperto" normally ranges from €2 to €4 per person in Italian sit-in restaurants. It is separately indicated on the bill. In reality it's nowadays some sort of automatically included tip.

Over here in Europe we got the 'Value Added Tax' system (see https://taxation-customs.ec.europa.eu/what-vat_en). The standard VAT rate varies per European country, ranging between 16% (Luxemburg) and 27% (Hungary) (see https://www.globalvatcompliance.com/...n-europe-2021/). You cannot opt out of VAT - it's mandatory. Well, if for Canadian and US bars and restaurants mandatory standard taxes + 20%-ish "tips" + 3%-ish "credit card payment fee" + "a donation for our staff" becomes the moral norm for you in the US and Canada: well, there you'll have your VAT equivalent. OK, unlike VAT you can opt out of tips and donations, but you can feel pushed to cough up, especially if you plan to revisit the place (as in my bouncer example above).

[Lady Jane]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Personally I prefer the European system.

If I remember correctly, waitressing is/was an actual trade in Germany and candidates had to attend classes.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by M2siast

To me, this is the whole premise of this thread and where the rub lies.

It used to be the case servers got paid LESS lawfully in anticipation of receiving tips.

It largely isn’t the case anymore, and servers are now making minimum wage (not less than).
Coincidentally, and ironically, as soon as this became true, OTHER people who ALWAYS made minimum wage started asking for tips too.

It’s upside down, and it’ll hurt actual servers in the long run.

It is still the case in the U.S. The issue is that those historically and currently making more than the minimum wage for tipped employees (i.e., making "regular" minimum wage or more) are now expecting tips because their iPad checkout tells them they should. Fast food employees make "regular" minimum wage or better and have never been tipped historically (other than maybe throwing spare change in a cup), yet some are expecting it now at 20%+.

I have no issues tipping a waiter in a sit down restaurant. Nothing has changed there to me.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by M2siast

To me, this is the whole premise of this thread and where the rub lies.

It used to be the case servers got paid LESS lawfully in anticipation of receiving tips.

It largely isn’t the case anymore, and servers are now making minimum wage (not less than).
Coincidentally, and ironically, as soon as this became true, OTHER people who ALWAYS made minimum wage started asking for tips too.

It’s upside down, and it’ll hurt actual servers in the long run.

If all service providers jump the bandwagon, things will backfire.

If 'pushed' into paying a non mandatory service tax, then it should be called what it really is: "suggested service tax" or "suggested markup" instead of "suggested gratuity".

Imagine: "Pilots are preparing for final descent as we speak. They suggest an 18% gratuity for their service throughout this flight. Flight attendants will assist you for making the electronic payment shortly. Please VISA and Mastercard only."

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by Artemis

...
Imagine: "Pilots are preparing for final descent as we speak. They suggest an 18% gratuity for their service throughout this flight. Flight attendants will assist you for making the electronic payment shortly. Please VISA and Mastercard only."

I'm pretty sure that won't work. To quote a pilot when a dufas coworker of mine asked if he'd get down OK (he was a little high on the approach)... "haven't left one up here yet!"

Now, if one wants to tip a controller to be moved up in the sequence...

[Fredcohiba]

Wisconsin law states that servers must make a minimum wage of $2.33 per hour. If tips combined with the employer's wages of at least $2.33 per hour do not equal at least $7.25, the employer must make up the difference.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Imagine: "Pilots are preparing for final descent as we speak. They suggest an 18% gratuity for their service throughout this flight. Flight attendants will assist you for making the electronic payment shortly. Please VISA and Mastercard only."

I remember an airliner hijacking back in the days before get off my lawn, where the flight crew had to take up a collection from the passengers to buy the fuel necessary to fly home from the hijacker's foreign destination airport because the airline had no fuel contracts there......

[UncleWede]

Wife and I shared a mocajete last night, plus each had a soda. Total was around $35. I rounded up to $40 on the CC, and left a $5 on the table.

She brought me 2 refills, an extra basket of chips and salsa, and came by at least 4 times while our food was on the table, to see if we needed anything more.

[flybigjet]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

Wife and I shared a mocajete last night, plus each had a soda. Total was around $35. I rounded up to $40 on the CC, and left a $5 on the table.

She brought me 2 refills, an extra basket of chips and salsa, and came by at least 4 times while our food was on the table, to see if we needed anything more.

That's reasonable.

Tipping 20%+ for some random you *literally* have no interaction with (not talking back-staff), or walking in to a fast-food place, picking up a bag and walking out is NOT.

[Lady Jane]

Is that like a smoking section?