[Joekerr]

Have you considered a tactical rock? Very low wall penetration coupled with an extremely silent delivery - better than any suppressor on the market.

[upstatedoc]

Ass

[Grip Addict]

Originally Posted by upstatedoc

OK so my primary bump in the night gun is my 45 ACP with bulldog home defense loads. That's upstairs in the bedroom. Downstairs in my hand gun safe is my Glock 10 mm. What do you think the best home defense round would be? Bulldog does not sell the home defense rounds for 10 mm. Looking for around that would not penetrate walls as much. Should I be looking for a lighter round or heavier round? I've got several different types of 10 mm rounds. Ranging from 135 g to 200 grains

Whatever will do the job, but not go through 3 neighbors walls.

You don't want to save your family while having your bullets fly into a kids room three doors down.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by upstatedoc

OK so my primary bump in the night gun is my 45 ACP with bulldog home defense loads. That's upstairs in the bedroom. Downstairs in my hand gun safe is my Glock 10 mm. What do you think the best home defense round would be? Bulldog does not sell the home defense rounds for 10 mm. Looking for around that would not penetrate walls as much. Should I be looking for a lighter round or heavier round? I've got several different types of 10 mm rounds. Ranging from 135 g to 200 grains

I've always been led to believe that the faster 10mm round will penetrate walls more effectively, so I would stick with the 45 unless you can find some home defense rounds for that 10mm. In the end, the best home defense gun is the one you have the most proficiency in.

[AlpineWhite_SJ]

Originally Posted by Joekerr

Have you considered a tactical rock? Very low wall penetration coupled with an extremely silent delivery - better than any suppressor on the market.

Those are currently banned in California for looking too scary, having too heavy a heft, and not making enough noise for your neighbors to report an unjustifiable homicide on the home invasion robber who snuck into your bedroom at 3am. Assault rocks need to be banned

[Grumpy Old Man]

Originally Posted by jmg

I've always been led to believe that the faster 10mm round will penetrate walls more effectively, so I would stick with the 45 unless you can find some home defense rounds for that 10mm. In the end, the best home defense gun is the one you have the most proficiency in.

Interior walls won't stop much of anything and exterior walls may not be much better depending on material, brick or stone obviously better than wood. The best material to stop the round would be getting them on target.

[Grip Addict]

Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man

Interior walls won't stop much of anything and exterior walls may not be much better depending on material, brick or stone obviously better than wood. The best material to stop the round would be getting them on target.

I agree with this.

If I could guess and from what I know, a 9mm round would probably go through 4-6 walls even if its a mix of drywall and exterior walls.

Been watching too much demolition ranch.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Originally Posted by Grip Addict

I agree with this.

If I could guess and from what I know, a 9mm round would probably go through 4-6 walls even if its a mix of drywall and exterior walls.

Been watching too much demolition ranch.

Theres some pretty interesting videos on the internet, if I recall correctly even .22 will punch through 3/4" plywood at a couple of hundred yards.

[Grip Addict]

Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man

Theres some pretty interesting videos on the internet, if I recall correctly even .22 will punch through 3/4" plywood at a couple of hundred yards.

Yep, now there is a chance your bullet hits a stud and hits wood instead of drywall and insulation. Which would slow it down and stop it after a few wood hits, but looking at any wall in your house, wood is only behind probably 10% of any wall in your house. 20% maybe.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Originally Posted by Grip Addict

Yep, now there is a chance your bullet hits a stud and hits wood instead of drywall and insulation. Which would slow it down and stop it after a few wood hits, but looking at any wall in your house, wood is only behind probably 10% of any wall in your house. 20% maybe.

Studs are 16" apart so 9%......I recall years ago during a Tactical operation a 5.56 round was fired and entered a wall running down the length of the interior wall, I can't recall exactly how far it travelled before exiting the wall but I know it was more than 10 feet so about 8-10 2x4 studs were penetrated. I know after that the went to 12 gauge and MP-5 as there primary weapon for a long time.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Hey guys! I've just grabbed my first gun up here in Canada. It's a Savage MSR 15 Recon

[Grip Addict]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Hey guys! I've just grabbed my first gun up here in Canada. It's a Savage MSR 15 Recon

I am always interested in other states in USA and countries outside of USA gun laws.

What are Canada's like?

[Run Silent]

Ha. Semi-firearm related. Found some old photos from when I worked for the government.

Most of these guns were 'expropriated'

Enjoy.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Grip Addict

I am always interested in other states in USA and countries outside of USA gun laws.

What are Canada's like?

They're okay IMO. Maybe a little bit strict...

The basic thing you have to understand if guns here aren't really a right more of a privilege technically.

What I like:
- Not that easy to get into firearms, I mean it's easy to access the form and all that just some waiting time involved. You must be approved by the RCMP your privincal chiefs firearms officer and have not had a recent breakup for example. Must also provide references. The whole process also takes a good ammount of time, it is a PITA first time but at the same time I guess it can stop someone who is depressive and wants to do a mass shooting or something. Currently most firearm shootings are mostly gang related and illegal firearms so it must work I guess?

What I dislike:
- This one I really fucking dislike a lot: 5 bullet magazine limit for rifles for legal owners but a criminal can just drill out the rivet pin and have a full 30 round mag. We have a loophole where you can get a 10 bullet mag using pistol .223 mags but that's the most
- 10 bullet mag limit for handguns
- Restricted firearm cannot be shot on private land or crown land. Only at shooting clubs or events. To give you an idea ALL handguns are classified restricted and most ARs and black rifles are restircted as well.

To add to this, to be able to purchases a restricted class firearm you must be part of a shooting club.

Another point I also find weird is storage. A non restricted gun you can store it on your kitchen table with a cable or trigger lock but a restricted firearm must have a trigger or cable lock AND be stored inside of a sturdy container like a case or safe OR it can be displayed outside with trigger/cable lock but it must be mounted in a way where you can't just pick it up so like bolted to a shelf or something.

So yeah I think that's most of it, I may have missed some points.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Restricted firearm cannot be shot on private land or crown land. Only at shooting clubs or events. To give you an idea ALL handguns are classified restricted and most ARs and black rifles are restircted as well.

What are some examples of "Non-Restricted" firearms?

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Run Silent

What are some examples of "Non-Restricted" firearms?

I think basically all .22 and .22lr rifles are non restricted. All shotguns are basically non restricted to. SKS is non restricted. Some interesting pieces that are non restricted is the IWI X95 Tactical rife and Type 97 Norinco. I also believe all bolt action and lever action rifles are non restricted. CZ Scorpion with the long barrel is non restricted but the short barrel is restricted. It's a mix of what they look like, and certain barrel lenghts, not 100% sure.

Also to get your licence you first have to do one full day course for each class. So like my restricted licences had to take 2 full day firearm safety courses mandated by Canada federally. Before being able to apply for your firearm acquisition and possession liscence.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

I think basically all .22 and .22lr rifles are non restricted. All shotguns are basically non restricted to. SKS is non restricted. Some interesting pieces that are non restricted is the IWI X95 Tactical rife and Type 97 Norinco. I also believe all bolt action and lever action rifles are non restricted. CZ Scorpion with the long barrel is non restricted but the short barrel is restricted. It's a mix of what they look like, and certain barrel lenghts, not 100% sure.

Also to get your licence you first have to do one full day course for each class. So like my restricted licences had to take 2 full day firearm safety courses mandated by Canada federally. Before being able to apply for your firearm acquisition and possession licence.

So, if vetted to own and operate a restricted firearm, can that person utilize the firearm to protect themselves (self defence) in the event of a break in whilst in their home?

What about non-restricted firearms? You noted that you cannot discharge them on your property. If licensed to own a restricted firearm, can you utilize it for self defence within your home?

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Run Silent

So, if vetted to own and operate a restricted firearm, can that person utilize the firearm to protect themselves (self defence) in the event of a break in whilst in their home?

What about non-restricted firearms? You noted that you cannot discharge them on your property. If licensed to own a restricted firearm, can you utilize it for self defence within your home?

So it's a bit tricky really. The short answer is no. Especially for restricted as in the course they teach you the ONLY reason to own a restricted firearm is for shooting or for work, which is why you need to be part of a club.

I remember having this discussion with someone and had found article but I don't remember the context... the basic Candian self defence law, not firearm related, is you can defend yourself using equal force/reasonable force and I believe it must be last resort. So like if someone comes in my house with a knife, I must try to escape and if my only option is to fight him out to escape then you could use a knife as well.

If you bring firearms in this, I guess if someone assault you with a restricted you still couldn't technically use a restricted back but a non restricted I think would apply and be legal. But again, kinda as a last resort.

It's really fucking complicated eh? I might be doing mistakes but this is the way I understand it.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Also one thing I would like to add and appreciate is you can easily call a phone number and speak with someone from the RCMP and get answers to firearms question. You might have to wait on the line if they are busy but it's easy to know if you are being legal or not and not be in trouble.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

So it's a bit tricky really. The short answer is no. Especially for restricted as in the course they teach you the ONLY reason to own a restricted firearm is for shooting or for work, which is why you need to be part of a club.

I remember having this discussion with someone and had found article but I don't remember the context... the basic Candian self defence law, not firearm related, is you can defend yourself using equal force/reasonable force and I believe it must be last resort. So like if someone comes in my house with a knife, I must try to escape and if my only option is to fight him out to escape then you could use a knife as well.

If you bring firearms in this, I guess if someone assault you with a restricted you still couldn't technically use a restricted back but a non restricted I think would apply and be legal. But again, kinda as a last resort.

It's really fucking complicated eh? I might be doing mistakes but this is the way I understand it.

Yeah, so long story short, is that Canada seems to also apply the one rule that causes me to despise any government. That is the rule that I have restrictions on how I can defend myself in my own home.

While I don't agree with restrictions on our 2A rights here in America, I understand that most other countries don't have this right embedded in their founding documents.

Where I get really ticked off, however, is when restrictions are placed on how one is able to defend themselves, regarding firearms or anything else really.

In my location, defense of home is extremely simple. I am allowed to use any and all methods I deem appropriate to stop a threat within my property, including and up to any means of deadly force. Full stop, no other caveats.

So, if someone breaks into my house, I can simply assume they mean to do me harm and shoot them. I don't have to prove I was in danger of any kind nor do I have to prove that I met force with comparable force. They break in, all bets are off and I am in the clear.

As it should be.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Run Silent

Yeah, so long story short, is that Canada seems to also apply the one rule that causes me to despise any government. That is the rule that I have restrictions on how I can defend myself in my own home.

While I don't agree with restrictions on our 2A rights here in America, I understand that most other countries don't have this right embedded in their founding documents.

Where I get really ticked off, however, is when restrictions are placed on how one is able to defend themselves, regarding firearms or anything else really.

In my location, defense of home is extremely simple. I am allowed to use any and all methods I deem appropriate to stop a threat within my property, including and up to any means of deadly force. Full stop, no other caveats.

So, if someone breaks into my house, I can simply assume they mean to do me harm and shoot them. I don't have to prove I was in danger of any kind nor do I have to prove that I met force with comparable force. They break in, all bets are off and I am in the clear.

As it should be.

Yeah I wish one day I could use my guns to defend my home if it ever happens but I don't think we will ever get that legally allowed..

[Grumpy Old Man]

Originally Posted by Run Silent

What are some examples of "Non-Restricted" firearms?

You can buy a non-restricted AR or variant as long as it has a barrel length of over 16", so unless it's really important to you to have a CQB size gun I'd go for a non-restricted variant. Lots of manufactures actually make guns for the Canadian market. Ruger does a PC-9 Carbine which uses a Glock 10 shot mag and has a longer barrel so you can shoot and store more easily, also the government isn't interested in them the way they are in restricted.