[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Artemis

That ship has sailed.

A new car design is usually signed off long time in advance. Registering a new car is a time-consuming process of steps, nationally and internationally. And if someone on the face of the earth who gets access to confidential documents abuses his/her professional duties and leaks confidential information, then pictures of reverse-engineered stuff (often of questionable quality and disregarding required safety standards) based off leaked info can surface someday. Quite frustrating for car manufacturers that way too often their confidential info gets into the hands of the counterfeit and replica industry even before official release of a new car.

Only minor design tweaks are still possible. Trivia fun fact about the E82 1M: the 1M was initially supposed to get halogen headlights as standard equipment, rather than the more expensive Xenon headlights. Reason: BMW M intended to launch the 1M onto the German market in 2011 for less than €50K (entry level BMW M car). However, the 1M featuring halogen headlights is told to have failed the TüV certification test. Reason for the failure was fully 1M design related: parking lights of the halogen headlights were physically positioned too much inwards because of the 1M 'wide fenders' design (wider than the stock E82 1-Series fenders). And so BMW quickly switched to plan B for homologation purposes: exit halogen headlights / enter Xenon headlights as standard equipment on every 1M worldwide (the parking lights are positioned more external because of the 'angel eyes' design). But this change pushed the base price of the 1M right over the psychological €50K barrier on the German market.

Attachment 2657521

Interesting 1M tidbit. Thanks for that.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by fiveohwblow

Part of sales, a major part, is the marketing of said product or service. The ability to persuade, convince or introduce whatever it is you’re peddling is quintessential to success and as much art as science goes in to that effort. The sales result are simply the end result, or as those is the sales world refer to as lag measure is only half the story. The lead measures are typically what are being scrutinized here, and, quite frankly everywhere.

Lol. May I ask you a serious question? Do you really believe everything you just wrote? I mean sincerely? Do you hate this car so much that you just made up some stuff to try to justify why it’s selling so well?

Advertising success is definitely judged on sales results. Once again here’s another thing that has a measured success by how many sales it produces. So the actual product and whatever was used to sell the products are all measured by sales numbers and money. Only sales and only money. This is so simple that usually everyone in the company from the owner to the night janitors understand this.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Trivia fun fact about the E82 1M: the 1M was initially supposed to get halogen headlights as standard equipment, rather than the more expensive Xenon headlights. Reason: BMW M intended to launch the 1M onto the German market in 2011 for less than €50K (entry level BMW M car).

A modern M model vehicle with incandescent headlights... Yuck..

M variants are positioned as the higher-tier/performing BMWs, who's backwards idea was that to add some '80s-era lighting technology onto one of them, standard, regardless of the cost.

I'm glad physical limitations prevailed and to add to your trivia, its might be the only reason the 1M was given LCI taillights also, even though it was a 2011 model year (regular 1 Series had 2012 for the LCI); Xenon LCI headlights required a FRM3 (footwell module), which only worked in conjunction with the LED taillights, for that generation.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by EXE46

I have seen countless posts proclaiming they're off to the Porsche dealer for their next new car. Porsche sales should double this year with all the new business they'll be getting from all the ex-BMW fanboys. We'll know end of year if the rants were merely smoke and mirrors.

Well, I did...

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

What about all the thumbs up I get at lights? I suppose they are of the ironic variety? What about the people who ask my permission to take pictures any time I park the car? Look at this gorgeous bitch and tell me she's ugly…

Wait we are way off topic here lol.

I will, I do find it ugly

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Pleaser

I keep hearing people saying "that's it for me, I am switching to Porsche". Really? Grille is what did it for you? Bumper was the deciding factor? Have you ever driven a 911? I mean 911, not turbo, not turbo S, not RS, GT.... Porsche is on a different level whatsoever. If you think the difference between Porsche and BMW is the grille you have no clue what you are talking about.

It's the overall design language, ditching of the DCT, increased weight and rear brake design that did for me. Not just the grille.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Well, I did...

They cost more than twice as much. I would love to own your car. I think it’s absolutely beautiful. However I do want to stay married. I need someone to do my laundry and keep the bathrooms clean.

Lucky for me I think the G80 is absolutely stunningly gorgeous. So I get a car I love and I get my laundry done. Everyone’s happy.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by swampfox94

Don't understand why people try to bring sales numbers into these arguments. The x3 outsells all m cars put together LOL

Agreed. Many of the better ///M cars BMW has ever made did not fly off dealer lots.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Patton250

They cost more than twice as much. I would love to own your car. I think it’s absolutely beautiful. However I do want to stay married. I need someone to do my laundry and keep the bathrooms clean.

Lucky for me I think the G80 is absolutely stunningly gorgeous. So I get a car I love and I get my laundry done. Everyone’s happy.

I guess I am luckily married, it's my wife that encouraged me to get the Porsche .

Yes, the 911turbo is massively more expensive than the M3/4. In my case, I figured if I make the jump, might as well make it worthwhile. The point though is that if I would have been pleased with what the G8X had to offer, I would be driving one right now with more money in my bank account.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Agreed. Many of the better ///M cars BMW has ever made did not fly off dealer lots.

Well then that shows you how subjective “better M cars” is. Obviously the M cars you thought were better but didn’t sell well found you in the extreme minority with the positive opinion.

I swear I wish some of you were my sales manager. Life would be easy. We could invent all new reasons as to why some months are bad or even some years.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I guess I am luckily married, it's my wife that encouraged me to get the Porsche .

Yes, the 911turbo is massively more expensive than the M3/4. In my case, I figured if I make the jump, might as well make it worthwhile.

Oh I’m definitely luckily married. My wife is awesome and didn’t care I bought the M car. But there’s a huge difference between 90K and 190K. Especially for me and my income bracket. I’m not saying I couldn’t pull it off but boy I would have to sacrifice a lot of other things to get there.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Well then that shows you how subjective “better M cars” is. Obviously the M cars you thought were better but didn’t sell well found you in the extreme minority with the positive opinion.

I swear I wish some of you were my sales manager. Life would be easy. We could invent all new reasons as to why some months are bad or even some years.



Oh I’m definitely luckily married. My wife is awesome and didn’t care I bought the M car. But there’s a huge difference between 90K and 190K. Especially for me and my income bracket. I’m not saying I couldn’t pull it off but boy I would have to sacrifice a lot of other things to get there.

When I say “better” ones I mean those that have been recognized as more desirable in general over time and have held value better than others. The E30 M3 is a prime example in itself.

[EXE46]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Well, I did...

You're the exception, I know you were not bs'ing.

[kyrix1st]

F8x enthusiasts' gripe with G8x did start with the design, but the other reason, that is arguably just as significant for the majority of auto-only market, is the loss of DCT.
Some markets (UK and parts of Asia for example) do not get MT as option and this means unlike the previous generation, the returning customers are faced with going for another generic slushbox over more interesting propositions like 718/911 with PDK or keeping their current F8x.

You would say these cars are not direct competitors but from what I have seen M3/4 customers in this market have multiple cars in the garage, so they are looking for an occasion car when shopping around M3/4, not another high powered generic German vehicles. Consequently, one would argue majority of buyers are not financially burdened with making a jump to P cars.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

F8x enthusiasts' gripe with G8x did start with the design, but the other reason, that is arguably just as significant for the majority of auto-only market, is the loss of DCT.
Some markets (UK and parts of Asia for example) do not get MT as option and this means unlike the previous generation, the returning customers are faced with going for another generic slushbox over more interesting propositions like 718/911 with PDK or keeping their current F8x.

You would say these cars are not direct competitors but from what I have seen M3/4 customers in this market have multiple cars in the garage, so they are looking for an occasion car when shopping around M3/4, not another high powered generic German vehicles. Consequently, one would argue majority of buyers are not financially burdened with making a jump to P cars.

I would disagree. Maybe "financially burdened" is a strong descriptor, but there is an average difference of about $40-50k between a nicely optioned M3/M4 and a nicely optioned Carrera S. The MSRP on my Carrera S is $142k. The MSRP on the G82 that I had ordered/cancelled was $85k-ish. Neither car had all of the boxes ticked. That is a phenomenal difference in car price…..and I didn't even go crazy on my C2S either. The Porsches are not in the same world. Anybody trying to align the price brackets are fooling themselves. Most Porsche builds I have seen online and in dealerships are in the $140k-165k range; a "stripper" would be somewhere in the 125k range…..which is still $40k above a well optioned M3/M4.

[Artemis]

Note about this thread (featuring recently deleted posts):

• BMW M releases the G80 M3 and G82 M4: polarizing debate on the forums about the kidneys design;
• BMW M sends a G87 M2 prototype onto the streets illustrating that the forthcoming M2 will not feature the G80 M3 and G82 M4 kidneys: yet another polarizing debate is triggered on the forums about the G80 M3 and G82 M4 kidneys design.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I would disagree. Maybe "financially burdened" is a strong descriptor, but there is an average difference of about $40-50k between a nicely optioned M3/M4 and a nicely optioned Carrera S. The MSRP on my Carrera S is $142k. The MSRP on the G82 that I had ordered/cancelled was $85k-ish. Neither car had all of the boxes ticked. That is a phenomenal difference in car price…..and I didn't even go crazy on my C2S either. The Porsches are not in the same world. Anybody trying to align the price brackets are fooling themselves. Most Porsche builds I have seen online and in dealerships are in the $140k-165k range; a "stripper" would be somewhere in the 125k range…..which is still $40k above a well optioned M3/M4.

The 718 Spyder I just built came to 125k
And that's with me trying my best not to check every option because man it adds up fast

Porsche cars are absolute masterpieces

Especially a GT variant

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Note about this thread (featuring recently deleted posts):

• BMW M releases the G80 M3 and G82 M4: polarizing debate on the forums about the kidneys design;
• BMW M sends a G87 M2 prototype onto the streets illustrating that the forthcoming M2 will not feature the G80 M3 and G82 M4 kidneys: yet another polarizing debate is triggered on the forums about the G80 M3 and G82 M4 kidneys design.

Attachment 2657640

I don’t think anyone would start talking about G8X here… because of the implication

[sharocks]

BMW = Fugly Car Vibes Only

[JTO24]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

I don’t think anyone would start talking about G8X here… because of the implication

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Note about this thread (featuring recently deleted posts):

• BMW M releases the G80 M3 and G82 M4: polarizing debate on the forums about the kidneys design;
• BMW M sends a G87 M2 prototype onto the streets illustrating that the forthcoming M2 will not feature the G80 M3 and G82 M4 kidneys: yet another polarizing debate is triggered on the forums about the G80 M3 and G82 M4 kidneys design.

Attachment 2657640

Time is a flat circle.

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

This is probably the most ridiculous parallel I've seen attempted yet.

But it was hilarious.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I would disagree. Maybe "financially burdened" is a strong descriptor, but there is an average difference of about $40-50k between a nicely optioned M3/M4 and a nicely optioned Carrera S. The MSRP on my Carrera S is $142k. The MSRP on the G82 that I had ordered/cancelled was $85k-ish. Neither car had all of the boxes ticked. That is a phenomenal difference in car price…..and I didn't even go crazy on my C2S either. The Porsches are not in the same world. Anybody trying to align the price brackets are fooling themselves. Most Porsche builds I have seen online and in dealerships are in the $140k-165k range; a "stripper" would be somewhere in the 125k range…..which is still $40k above a well optioned M3/M4.

That would be a very US thing. M3/4s in markets I specified have zero to little difference when compared with 718 GTS 4.0 (718 GTS 4.0 being cheaper by about $10K) and about $20K-30K difference when comparing similarly optioned 992 C2S.
A bit off topic but value retention is much higher for Pcars as well.