[soflacarguy]

Thats ~443 pound-ft of torque? Wow!

[BimmerMat135]

If the 600nm is true will it be auto only?

[Tag]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

So this is kinda late in the game and just not what I expected, but the latest specs for the MY25 are showing a bump in torque to 600Nm, in addition to the HP bump. Typo? Only BMW engineers know...

Do you see the same torque bump for the MY25 base M4?

[c1pher]

I read there was going to be a powerkit for the 23-24 models. I wrote it down and then I read it.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by c1pher

I read there was going to be a powerkit for the 23-24 models. I wrote it down and then I read it.

ynguldyn doesn't make stuff up.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by Tag

Do you see the same torque bump for the MY25 base M4?

Nope. That's one of the reasons why I'm still scratching my head about the G87 change.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

Nope. That's one of the reasons why I'm still scratching my head about the G87 change.

Yeah, there's no way they'd give the M2 more torque than its big brothers. Seems like a typo as you suggested. I also have never seen any MT being paired with the S58 that had more than 406 lb-ft of torque. So, they either completely revised the MT to handle more power and are giving the M2 more torque than the M3/4 or it's a typo. Occam's razor favors the latter.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Tag

Yeah, there's no way they'd give the M2 more torque than its big brothers. Seems like a typo as you suggested. I also have never seen any MT being paired with the S58 that had more than 406 lb-ft of torque. So, they either completely revised the MT to handle more power and are giving the M2 more torque than the M3/4 or it's a typo. Occam's razor favors the latter.

They may also just be restating the typical current output, which seems to be 600Nm or more (the ZF quoted transmission torque limit). This could also be the case with the power output - a rise in the quoted value, but only a paper/marketing change over the current spec, perhaps?

[Tag]

Originally Posted by aerobod

They may also just be restating the typical current output, which seems to be 600Nm or more (the ZF quoted transmission torque limit). This could also be the case with the power output - a rise in the quoted value, but only a paper/marketing change over the current spec, perhaps?

The transmission has nothing to do with it. Both the MT and AT models are rated at 406 lb-ft of torque. It's the same as the base M3/4 with MT and AT.

[BimmerMat135]

If finally they can get a stronger 6MT that would be very interesting indeed. The X3M non competition(473hp) had 457ft-lbs(620nm) of torque on the base setting. So clearly they are holding the torque on the base engine.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by Tag

Yeah, there's no way they'd give the M2 more torque than its big brothers. Seems like a typo as you suggested. I also have never seen any MT being paired with the S58 that had more than 406 lb-ft of torque. So, they either completely revised the MT to handle more power and are giving the M2 more torque than the M3/4 or it's a typo. Occam's razor favors the latter.

Well, you have the right thought here. I've checked the specs with and without 2TB, and indeed the manual is showing 550Nm while the automatic is 600Nm.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

Well, you have the right thought here. I've checked the specs with and without 2TB, and indeed the manual is showing 550Nm while the automatic is 600Nm.

If I'm reading this right, you just blew my mind. Are you saying you see two different torque ratings for the G87; 550Nm for MT and 600Nm for the AT? The base M3/4 models come with both MT and AT but have the same power ratings and the power rating of M3/4c are the same albeit AT only. I've never seen the same model have different power ratings depending on the transmission. This would be a first.

Now I'm scratching my head.

[Tag]

The more I think about it the more plausible it seems this may actually be a Competition model.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by M2siast

This is very common in all manufacturers and BMW has done it before in their MPPKs.

It wouldn’t be out of the ordinary for BMW to do that. And at that rate, it might even be an opportunity for it to call the automatic “Competition”.

Here's what confuses me. BMW has never offered any power package like MPPSK on an M car. They either bump the power for LCI or offer a Competition model with more power. BMW also uses different model codes for each variant. For instance the base M3 USA mode code is 53AY while the M3c USA model code is 33AY and M3cx is 43AY. I believe what ynguldyn is seeing, correct me if I'm wrong, for the G87 is one model code but with different ratings. That's why I'm totally confused but I love trying to figure this stuff out.

[Bumpinjeep]

I wonder if the HP and TQ update means this is for
A. Automatic cars only and the manual stays the same. Which would introduce the Competition moniker.
B. New hardware for the manual cars to handle the extra torque. Remember that the 3.0 CSL has 560 HP and 406 lb ft of torque as it comes with a 6 speed only.
C. The manual transmission gets dropped altogether.

Strange times indeed.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

I wonder if the HP and TQ update means this is for
A. Automatic cars only and the manual stays the same. Which would introduce the Competition moniker.
B. New hardware for the manual cars to handle the extra torque. Remember that the 3.0 CSL has 560 HP and 406 lb ft of torque as it comes with a 6 speed only.
C. The manual transmission gets dropped altogether.

Strange times indeed.

A: We are all scratching our heads on that one.
B: Doubt it and even though the 3.0 CSL has 560hp it only has 406 lb-ft of torque which to date is the limit of the MT.
C: No way that would happen.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by M2siast

I get what you're saying. I'm thinking more in general terms, BMW (and others) have done similar things in the past, look at Porsche too, when they introduced the PDK in 2012 it had more torque than the Manual in the Turbo.

Also, the E36 had entirely different engines for the US versus the ROW.

MPPK offered more torque in the automatics (DCTs too).

So, it wouldn't be "entirely new", although it'd be new, as many things are a "first" (meaning, a first for the same model in the same market to be offered with different torque when picked with manual or auto, just for BMW M).

I like the "Occam's razor" bit. It might just be the Competition being offered for automatics while the Manuals are just "M2". This is the simplest assumption.

Or it's a typo. :P

We both end our thoughts with who the hell knows.

[ynguldyn]

For clarity and people coming here from the front page:

There's only one M2 model with start of production in 8/24. It is still called "M2" with no suffixes, like the current one. In a very unusual manner, the torque specifications of this model differ depending on the transmission installed: 550Nm (as before) for the manual but a bump to 600Nm for the automatic.

[JMcLellan]

From what I am reading in the last few posts you guys know a lot more than me on this BMW stuff than I do. I love this and appreciate the insight.

I don't see how and why BMW would put out a new model year of a car and have different power ratings for different transmissions. Feels like it's most likely going to be the competition model, or they are not offering the 6 MT anymore. Maybe the comp model gets 475 HP, 443 TQ, and then the CS will get 500+ HP and more torque once that is released.

Also, if it was true the base M2 would have upgraded HP and TQ numbers then how many people would ditch their 24 model year allocation and wait for MY25?? If that was the case I might consider losing my $1K deposit for my car currently in "ready to transport" status and hold out. It doesn't make good business sense as BMW would cannibalize their current buyers. On top of that they don't want to piss off their M3 and M4 folks.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Carefree

I’m waiting for MY30 and 1000hp.

The first 1000+ HP BMW will probably by the 4 motor EV version as early as 2026-2027? BMW i4 drivetrain prototypes are already in testing phase.

[yaymitch]

I keep reading references to a new competition model, I thought BMW was getting rid of that moniker going forward.

[Rux]

Apologize if this has been said / asked but is it possible that the new Toyota inspired MT that will be in the Z4M40 will be updated for the S58?