[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

the 2 biggest utilities in my region just increased rates ~15% just to keep up with current factors, imagine the cost of all the other new shit people are dreaming up. It will be more than a few cents per KWH, trust me, I see some of the invoices for the stuff that makes power move from source to customer. There is a reason it's not already done. If it made economic sense, it would have been done long ago. recent estimates from the congressional hearing with DOE director was in the "$50 trillion" to be carbon neutral by 2050, and that only impacts a small prevent of global C02 production (hint, we aren't the main producer).

Thank you..
This is where I have fears.
The very rich and very poor rarely pay taxes.
It's me and my kids who'll have to pay down that trillion dollar/pound debt and I'm not really cool with that.
The moment I express that I'll be shouted down as a climate denier and that's where a problem exists.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Eternal Vibration

You are missing a big factor here:
1) You are not comparing the production correctly. Producing EV's includes producing the battery pack yes. Which is essentially the gas tank in a ICE car. So yes the battery pack is way more complicated and manufacturing intensive than the gas tank. Mining, materials, etc.
2) The GAS is not factored into this comparison. The GAS itself takes a lot for resources to produce. WAY more resources than electricity.
3) As times goes on, the manufacturing efficiency of EV's and Lithium Ion batteries will improve. Although I do not think it is the ultimate or best source of power long term. Its what we have for now.

1) Please point me to a EV that doesn't run on batteries? Own the damage to the environment that mining, transportation, construction and disposal of EV batteries causes. If you can still justify your obsession with the green Grift then there is more here than your professed concern about the environment.

2) Gas is a byproduct of distillation of crude oil. This process has somewhat fixed breakdowns. The medications you take, the clothing you wear, the stuff in you home are all byproducts of the distillation of crude oil.

3) Odd how you left out the tonnes of material required to produce LiPo batteries. Please educate yourself on the process of mining and processing Lithium and Cobalt and get back to us with a group apology.

Yes my response to you is harsh but I've grown very very tired of you Greenies "F"ing things up you have no understanding of. The environment and economy's can tolerate a lot of stupidity and heal itself but we may be approaching an inflection point.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

A lot of folk are on to electric BBQ. A coal fired bbq for me is the king of taste and I only use that. I wasn't aware that they are after that too...

I'm hoping you are talking about BBQ with wood coals and not bituminous coals?

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I wonder if there is an ice cream czar?

This guy?

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

I'm hoping you are talking about BBQ with wood coals and not bituminous coals?

In my young days I made a mistake of buying the wrong one. The smoke and the stench is unforgettable..

[fcman]

Originally Posted by gonzo

The same people will soon be releasing their guidelines for wine, right?

Hooked on phonics may be of use to you

[fcman]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Watching the PBS special on the Yellowstone Hot Spot at the moment. The next super-eruption is implied to occur in about 20,000 years based on timing of prior eruption events at Yellowstone. It will drastically affect the Earth's climate. 100% die off of the tropical rainforest. Sulfuric aerosols hanging in the atmosphere for 5 years, blocking nearly all sunlight.

But hey, I guess that's old man's science.

Correct, thinking this has anything to do with EVs and Beer limits is old man science. How much internet time do they give you at the nursing home anyway?

[carseatsm5]

What if I told you the earth is actually getting greener (like actually greener, more green vegetation) and carbon dioxide is the reason?

“In 2016, a paper was published by 32 authors from 24 institutions in eight countries that analyzed satellite data and concluded that there had been a roughly 14 percent increase in green vegetation over 30 years. The study attributed 70 percent of this increase to the extra carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.”

https://www.nature.com/articles/nclimate3004

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard...greening-earth

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by carseatsm5

What if I told you the earth is actually getting greener (like actually greener, more green vegetation) and carbon dioxide is the reason?

“In 2016, a paper was published by 32 authors from 24 institutions in eight countries that analyzed satellite data and concluded that there had been a roughly 14 percent increase in green vegetation over 30 years. The study attributed 70 percent of this increase to the extra carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.”

https://www.nature.com/articles/nclimate3004

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard...greening-earth

Well to be fair, when AOC said 4 years ago that the world was going to end in 12 years, she never said it would be less green, nor more biologically productive and fertile, just that it would end. Maybe she meant a comet or asteroid strike or something, or perhaps that we'd all eat ourselves to death
...

[Tejas1836]

Well, I remember this

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Tejas1836

Well, I remember this

That's good, you remember the first fake news-some outliers that were considered to be fringe/fake in that day and were not supported by their respective scientific communities (because they were wrong).

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by RM7

That's good, you remember the first fake news-some outliers that were considered to be fringe/fake in that day and were not supported by their respective scientific communities (because they were wrong).

You mean these predictions by scientific communities?

1. 1967: Dire Famine Forecast By 1975
2. 1969: Everyone Will Disappear In a Cloud Of Blue Steam By 1989 (1969)
3. 1970: Ice Age By 2000
4. 1970: America Subject to Water Rationing By 1974 and Food Rationing By 1980
5. 1971: New Ice Age Coming By 2020 or 2030
6. 1972: New Ice Age By 2070
7. 1974: Space Satellites Show New Ice Age Coming Fast
8. 1974: Another Ice Age?
9. 1974: Ozone Depletion a ‘Great Peril to Life (data and graph)
10. 1976: Scientific Consensus Planet Cooling, Famines imminent
11. 1980: Acid Rain Kills Life In Lakes (additional link)
12. 1978: No End in Sight to 30-Year Cooling Trend (additional link)
13. 1988: Regional Droughts (that never happened) in 1990s
14. 1988: Temperatures in DC Will Hit Record Highs
15. 1988: Maldive Islands will Be Underwater by 2018 (they’re not)
16. 1989: Rising Sea Levels will Obliterate Nations if Nothing Done by 2000
17. 1989: New York City’s West Side Highway Underwater by 2019 (it’s not)
18. 2000: Children Won’t Know what Snow Is
19. 2002: Famine In 10 Years If We Don’t Give Up Eating Fish, Meat, and Dairy
20. 2004: Britain will Be Siberia by 2024
21. 2008: Arctic will Be Ice Free by 2018
22. 2008: Climate Genius Al Gore Predicts Ice-Free Arctic by 2013
23. 2009: Climate Genius Prince Charles Says we Have 96 Months to Save World
24. 2009: UK Prime Minister Says 50 Days to ‘Save The Planet From Catastrophe’
25. 2009: Climate Genius Al Gore Moves 2013 Prediction of Ice-Free Arctic to 2014
26. 2013: Arctic Ice-Free by 2015 (additional link)
27. 2014: Only 500 Days Before ‘Climate Chaos’
28. 1968: Overpopulation Will Spread Worldwide
29. 1970: World Will Use Up All its Natural Resources
30. 1966: Oil Gone in Ten Years
31. 1972: Oil Depleted in 20 Years
32. 1977: Department of Energy Says Oil will Peak in 1990s
33. 1980: Peak Oil In 2000
34. 1996: Peak Oil in 2020
35. 2002: Peak Oil in 2010
36. 2006: Super Hurricanes!
37. 2005 : Manhattan Underwater by 2015
38. 1970: Urban Citizens Will Require Gas Masks by 1985
39. 1970: Nitrogen buildup Will Make All Land Unusable
40. 1970: Decaying Pollution Will Kill all the Fish
41. 1970s: Killer Bees!
42. 1975: The Cooling World and a Drastic Decline in Food Production
43. 1969: Worldwide Plague, Overwhelming Pollution, Ecological Catastrophe, Virtual Collapse of UK by End of 20th Century
44. 1972: Pending Depletion and Shortages of Gold, Tin, Oil, Natural Gas, Copper, Aluminum
45. 1970: Oceans Dead in a Decade, US Water Rationing by 1974, Food Rationing by 1980
46. 1988: World’s Leading Climate Expert Predicts Lower Manhattan Underwater by 2018
47. 2005: Fifty Million Climate Refugees by the Year 2020
48. 2000: Snowfalls Are Now a Thing of the Past
49.1989: UN Warns That Entire Nations Wiped Off the Face of the Earth by 2000 From Global Warming
50. 2011: Washington Post Predicted Cherry Blossoms Blooming in Winter

First of all, developed countries have basically expropriated the atmosphere of the world community. But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy. Obviously, the owners of coal and oil will not be enthusiastic about this. One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore.
Dr. Ottmar Edenhofer UN-IPPC

[gonzo]

^

[gblansten]

Not that anyone asked...lol...but I enjoyed driving my EV this morning in a very non-ecologically oriented manner.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

To be accurate, as I remember it, the concern about "12-years" is climate scientists now are stating (as of 4 years ago) the human species has just 12 years to take action or the Earth will reach the "point of no return", where the effects of climate change will be irrecoverable, or better said, irreversible. Being AOC's brain box may be under utilized, she may have translated it incorrectly.

Scary stuff!

Her comments came from a hearing were she was recalling her fielding calls and emails and having conversations with her young (inexperienced in life) constituents that were living in sheer terror about the pending certain doom because they took in a little data of dubious sample validity and some fearful words from authority figures and concluded it was an absolute emergency. Regardless of what she intended to say, "the people" have reacted to it in some really stupid ways.

Take note of the data, get more, scrutinize it thoroughly, ask yourself what you can do to help, then be logical and pragmatic. Consume less, purchase smarter, do without sometimes, do the things that work the best first (prioritize), don't fuck everything up in a panic.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Not that anyone asked...lol...but I enjoyed driving my EV this morning in a very non-ecologically oriented manner.

You are one of the only EV proponents on this thread with a level of honesty and comprehension of reality. In the future I am likely to be forced to call out EV Greenies as IDIOTS so I give you a blanket exemption should that situation arise.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I should get bonus points.

No but you already know you're not playing by the Greenie rules. Go buy a $100,000 EV and you will be in the club. It's all about virtue signaling not saving the environment.

For others it's about something else.
Climate policy has almost nothing to do anymore with protecting the environment. The next world climate summit in Cancun is actually an economy summit during which [re]distribution of the world's resources will be negotiated.
Dr. Ottmar Edenhofer, one of the UN's top climate officials

[fcman]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Not that anyone asked...lol...but I enjoyed driving my EV this morning in a very non-ecologically oriented manner.

Same, I had to start putting it in chill mode most of the time because I'm ripping through rear tires faster than my C7 corvette did lol. The instant response and torque are just addicting. Can't wait to start ripping it up in my G87 too when it gets here

[Car-Addicted]

EVs have gone from shortages to near oversupply
August 25, 2023
Business Insider magazine: Electric-car inventory has been piling up on dealership lots this year as companies up their EV production, leading some dealers to say enough is enough. Some are telling automakers they don't want any more until they can sell what's sitting, several dealers told Insider. ... Automakers are shoring up their factories to churn more of these cars out. But demand isn't growing at the same pace.

Plug-in-vehicle availability is increasing rapidly, a sign the EV-adoption growth curve is about to hit a serious slowdown. A switch from enthusiastic and wealthy early adopters to more apprehensive and budget-minded car shoppers is throwing the electric-car transition for a loop, forcing car companies to change their outlooks and pull back on ambitious EV production goals.

The economics of electric cars doesn't pass the smell test of people on a budget and who need their cars for transportation and not to impress their neighbors.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

EVs have gone from shortages to near oversupply
August 25, 2023
Business Insider magazine: Electric-car inventory has been piling up on dealership lots this year as companies up their EV production, leading some dealers to say enough is enough. Some are telling automakers they don't want any more until they can sell what's sitting, several dealers told Insider. ... Automakers are shoring up their factories to churn more of these cars out. But demand isn't growing at the same pace.

Plug-in-vehicle availability is increasing rapidly, a sign the EV-adoption growth curve is about to hit a serious slowdown. A switch from enthusiastic and wealthy early adopters to more apprehensive and budget-minded car shoppers is throwing the electric-car transition for a loop, forcing car companies to change their outlooks and pull back on ambitious EV production goals.

The economics of electric cars doesn't pass the smell test of people on a budget and who need their cars for transportation and not to impress their neighbors.

Lol, what in god’s name does “near oversupply” mean? Thats just a roundabout way of saying they are meeting (or close to meeting) demand

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by fcman

Lol, what in god’s name does “near oversupply” mean? Thats just a roundabout way of saying they are meeting (or close to meeting) demand

What part of "Electric-car inventory has been piling up on dealership lots this year as companies up their EV production, leading some dealers to say enough is enough. Some are telling automakers they don't want any more until they can sell what's sitting, several dealers told Insider." did you fail to understand.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

What part of "Electric-car inventory has been piling up on dealership lots this year as companies up their EV production, leading some dealers to say enough is enough. Some are telling automakers they don't want any more until they can sell what's sitting, several dealers told Insider." did you fail to understand.

What does that have to do with my question? What could "near oversupply" mean other than either:
a) slightly lower supply than demand
b) at supply/demand equilibrium?