[Tag]

Originally Posted by RPM33

Tag: Do you have a G87 on order yet?

My plan has always been to pick up an M2 only after I moved to a new home, but the housing market has been lousy with low inventory and high prices for the past few years, so I haven't been able to move. My priority has always been that a house comes first, car second. We'll see how things go this year and next, but I'm serious worried about the possibility of a recession this year. BTW, if they stop selling the M2 in the US, I'm sorry to say I'll be done participating in this forum since there's no other BMW I'm interested in.

[BradMX5]

If everyone on this forum chips in a little we might be able to get you a carbon bucket seat. Then you can turn it into a nice computer chair and hang out on the forum with us still.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Tag

My plan has always been to pick up an M2 only after I moved to a new home, but the housing market has been lousy with low inventory and high prices for the past few years, so I haven't been able to move. My priority has always been that a house comes first, car second. We'll see how things go this year and next, but I'm serious worried about the possibility of a recession this year. BTW, if they stop selling the M2 in the US, I'm sorry to say I'll be done participating in this forum since there's no other BMW I'm interested in.

I think this is the right move. A recession or some kind of global crisis, be is looming and the market is reflecting the uncertainty. Wait and see how this administration, which was largely voted in based on a platform of economic growth, can actually pull it out of its ass. It's a fucking mess right now.

Out of curiosity, what other cars interest you?

[603BlueM2]

Originally Posted by BradMX5

If everyone on this forum chips in a little we might be able to get you a carbon bucket seat. Then you can turn it into a nice computer chair and hang out on the forum with us still.

Damn...that was funny.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by jmg

Out of curiosity, what other cars interest you?

Those I can't afford.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by BgsDks

And while all of this is going on let's make the tax-payers pay for a bunch of crypto...

We don't need a strategic reserve in crypto.

We hold crypto typically because we have seized it. Crypto is "funny money" and is only worth something because people can or used to be able to trade and circumvent banking laws. That's no longer the case.

But once again, we have someone that doesn't fundamentally understand tariffs playing with economic and monetary policy.

On a side note for BMW content.
I just spoke to a BMW Genius supervisor are there hasn't been any communication from the C-Suite on what is happening. So right now I think if your car hits port, you will be waiting while they figure this out.

People that don't have cars even built will be waiting to hear because the situation is fluid.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by aerobod

Dropping the VAT rate would most likely do more to increase the deficit to US levels (in 2024, only 40% of that of the US as a % of GDP), as opposed to stimulating GDP growth. Germany needs a decisive chancellor to put forward a consistent strategy to grow their economy, which they seem to have elected in Merz. Certainly they have a much better debt position than the US due to more prudent fiscal policy over the last couple of decades.

when ur slipping into recession... is the deficit an issue lol? maybe thats the reason why they are in the trouble they are...

[jmg]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

But once again, we have someone that doesn't fundamentally understand tariffs playing with economic and monetary policy.

Not to get too political, but I think they know exactly what they are doing, and they have learned from the crypto market. Dump the market, buy cheap when confidence is low, then pump it. Rinse repeat and profit each time. We are currently in the "dump" phase. This tariff war isn't meant to boost the US economy, it's meant to destroy it, and in that sense, they are doing a really good job at it.

[DrewNewM2]

Let’s see what happens with used car prices.

[Trogster]

These new tariffs wont stay in place very long....keep your powder dry.

[WWM3]

Already, Lutnick is teasing a deal tomorrow. Based on his comments, the tariffs will stay but at a level lower than 25% as part of the agreement. What a shitshow.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by WWM3

Already, Lutnick is teasing a deal tomorrow. Based on his comments, the tariffs will stay but at a level lower than 25% as part of the agreement. What a shitshow.

So just like when my cable company raises my rate and I call and cancel my service only to have a 'customer retention account specialist' (longer their title, the more important) calls me back some time later to work something out. Got it.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by Tag

My plan has always been to pick up an M2 only after I moved to a new home, but the housing market has been lousy with low inventory and high prices for the past few years, so I haven't been able to move. My priority has always been that a house comes first, car second. We'll see how things go this year and next, but I'm serious worried about the possibility of a recession this year. BTW, if they stop selling the M2 in the US, I'm sorry to say I'll be done participating in this forum since there's no other BMW I'm interested in.

Good for you for having your priorities straight. My house went up in value significantly and I can make purchases much more comfortably. Hope you find something that fits what you're looking for house wise. It's frustrating and fun at the same time.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by ASAP

when ur slipping into recession... is the deficit an issue lol? maybe thats the reason why they are in the trouble they are...

Recessions just happen sometimes. They HAVE to. The line can't ALWAYS go up, we learned this lesson already in the 90s. Not all recessions mean someone did something wrong. They are just part of the economic cycle.

I could (with much more more evidence!) argue that deficit spending grows economies, since countries have more growth years than recession years while carrying a deficit. But I won't, because correlation != causation. I don't pick a side because, IMO, the argument itself is meaningless.

FWIW, "how much deficit is too much" is a really neat question that economists don't agree on. Some aren't sure it's even a meaningful question. But this is car forum, not a G summit, so I'll stop here.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

Good for you for having your priorities straight. My house went up in value significantly and I can make purchases much more comfortably. Hope you find something that fits what you're looking for house wise. It's frustrating and fun at the same time.

It's such a bad time for anyone without real estate right now. All the comps in my area went from 6 to 7 figures since I bought it, and it's priced most people out. There certainly has to be a market correction at some point, I just hope that still puts current home owners in the green while placing them within reach for new buyers. A low interest rate and some tax incentives would help.

[bloung5]

My order hasn't moved from order received, but honestly eh i'm not overly concerned. I certainly do want the car, but not if it's excessive, I'm not in a rush either and biding my time to pick one up. If it works out as planned great, if not there will be an opportunity. The last thing I want to do is rush the purchase when the pricing was inflated.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by jmg

It's such a bad time for anyone without real estate right now. All the comps in my area went from 6 to 7 figures since I bought it, and it's priced most people out. There certainly has to be a market correction at some point, I just hope that still puts current home owners in the green while placing them within reach for new buyers. A low interest rate and some tax incentives would help.

I'm in the PNW where prices have been overinflated for like 20 years. And now with super high interest rates, it's just not really feasible for most folks who let's say aren't selling and have a bunch of money to put down. If you can, get in on a house and refi.

[riowest]

Originally Posted by jakek66

Lots of politics and grandstanding on here but not a lot of facts. Here’s the truth from people I’ve spoken to (and I’m connected to many suppliers that have production in Mexico)

1) It’s going to keep getting delayed until 2026 so not impact on todays cars
2) If it gets in place, expectation is it will only last weeks which manufacturers will likely eat the tariff for a short period
3) Exemptions are expected and auto manufacturers will be at the top of the list
4) if all above doesn’t happen, BMW will stop importing 2 Series after all current sold cars are produced and shipped. 3 Series moves US production to another plant but possibly waits until the next generation arrives.

I believe what’s going to likely happen is there’s going to be so many exemptions it won’t end up mattering. If not I don’t think BMW will increase the price if it’s a short term deal, they’ll probably eat it for a period and then discontinue the model here if it lasts too long.

I hope what you are saying is true. I have a fully spec’d M240i Xdrive finishing production this week, and stressing big time that I’ll be screwed by the tariffs. I was having fun with it all, until today. You seem fairly confident with your comment, so fingers crossed here!

[M2Cmtl]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

It's not 25% on the retail price.
It will be 25% on what BMW USA; the distributor pays for the car. It's a tax at point of entry. So the dealer has yet to buy the car from BMW USA.

With a base price of $65k what is the price BMW USA pays? Maybe $50k then to the dealer $60k? So it would add $12.5k to the base price of the car.
So base M2 with fees would be $77.5k

Too much since I'm already at $85k and that puts me right there with an M4. So assuming the tariffs aren't coming so soon to the EU. I'll go there. But let's see.

I just have to correct this. Tarifs are paid on the value on import. This is usually the selling price, not the cost of making the good. If you sell the car for 100K to the dealer, the 25% applies to 100K. This can even include shipping costs. of course the dealer adds his margin, but the tarif is not simply on the cost of producing the goods. You can’t cheat the system by adding an intermediary buyer. In your example, 25% would apply to 60 or even 65k.

Add to that other possible tariffs along the supply chain and it’s very hard to actually determine the exact price increase. Even my American wrangler has a made in Mexico HEMI, and probably many other foreign part/material.

[LateBrake8]

Originally Posted by Trogster

These new tariffs wont stay in place very long....keep your powder dry.

Originally Posted by WWM3

Already, Lutnick is teasing a deal tomorrow. Based on his comments, the tariffs will stay but at a level lower than 25% as part of the agreement. What a shitshow.

Originally Posted by bloung5

My order hasn't moved from order received, but honestly eh i'm not overly concerned. I certainly do want the car, but not if it's excessive, I'm not in a rush either and biding my time to pick one up. If it works out as planned great, if not there will be an opportunity. The last thing I want to do is rush the purchase when the pricing was inflated.

The sky is falling!! I'm enjoying the chaos, unbothered by whether I'll be able to ultimately swing my M2. Hope it all works out but life goes on, and i'll find other options.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by M2Cmtl

I just have to correct this. Tarifs are paid on the value on import. This is usually the selling price, not the cost of making the good. If you sell the car for 100K to the dealer, the 25% applies to 100K. This can even include shipping costs. of course the dealer adds his margin, but the tarif is not simply on the cost of producing the goods. You can’t cheat the system by adding an intermediary buyer. In your example, 25% would apply to 60 or even 65k.

Add to that other possible tariffs along the supply chain and it’s very hard to actually determine the exact price increase. Even my American wrangler has a made in Mexico HEMI, and probably many other foreign part/material.

The duty is calculated at point of entry and not point of sale to the customer.
At point of entry the sale is to the distributor, BMW NA. Tariffs or duties are collected at the port.

So the value of the good as you call it, is the value that BMW NA pays and not what you or I will eventually pay.

The M2 is sold to BMW NA, the distributor, then sold to the dealer and finally sold and titled with the customer.

An example is a piece of lumber. Duty/tariff is paid when it enters. The duty is not based on what Home Depot or Lowe's eventually sells the item for.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

The duty is calculated at point of entry and not point of sale to the customer.
At point of entry the sale is to the distributor, BMW NA. Tariffs or duties are collected at the port.

So the value of the good as you call it, is the value that BMW NA pays and not what you or I will eventually pay.

The M2 is sold to BMW NA, the distributor, then sold to the dealer and finally sold and titled with the customer.

An example is a piece of lumber. Duty/tariff is paid when it enters. The duty is not based on what Home Depot or Lowe's eventually sells the item for.

Yes and no.
What we have seen in the semiconductor industry is a mixed bag. Some distributors charge end customers the tariff based on the RESALE price which basically means they are making money off it. Others charge based on the DBP (Distribution Buy Price) which makes more sense.
The bottom line is that the end user (customer) ends up paying for those tariffs and not manufacturer as it is intended to be.

And that will remain that way at least short-to-mid term as there is no way all this manufacturing can be relocated to the USA short term (years). The consumers will end up paying more for the products.
Even if the manufacturing ends up back in the USA, we will be still paying more for the product based on the labor cost and will most likely get no quality benefits.