[Tag]

Originally Posted by T_U_D

Right! When did having “to much grip” become a bad thing in a street purpose sports coupe?

85%+ that purchase a G87 will never be able to drive them at their full potential. That is a fact!

An AWD car has more grip too, but is it more fun? It depends on what you're looking for in a sporty car. Some people want a car you can point and just go WOT; to them that's fun. Others want a car that's more challenging to drive because it's more involved, like steering with the throttle on a RWD car.

[10"]

Originally Posted by aerobod

1st gear is quite appropriate for hairpin bends, or any bend below 40km/h / 25mph, for that matter.

I have never gone into 1st on any twisty and have driven plenty—in my 1M or any other car for that matter! Totally not needed! Almost any car is geared to pull out from 2nd gear while rolling slowly even—-far slower than 25!

[ESB]

Originally Posted by Tag

An AWD car has more grip too, but is it more fun? It depends on what you're looking for in a sporty car. Some people want a car you can point and just go WOT; to them that's fun. Others want a car that's more challenging to drive because it's more involved, like steering with the throttle on a RWD car.

lol yeah exactly. I remember all the "will xDrive be an option?" threads over the last year and how quickly the OPs would get shot down about how sacrilegious that would be for an M2 - breaks what the car is about. "You want a mini M4? F you and get an m4!"

My pov on that was always "uhh ... who cares if bmw offers xdrive? If you hate AWD so much then just don't buy it. But if others want it what do you care? It's like 6MT fans saying that Autos shouldn't even be offered on an M2 lmao"

[ronin13013]

Agreed. No one drives around in 1st gear.

Originally Posted by 10"

I have never gone into 1st on any twisty and have driven plenty—in my 1M or any other car for that matter! Totally not needed! Almost any car is geared to pull out from 2nd gear while rolling slowly even—-far slower than 25!

[F87EVO]

Originally Posted by ESB

FWIW I prefer reviews on roads. I don't really track my car and I don't think I fall into the minority group. I know it's sort of a sin. I'll do an HPDE 'soon' but I think I'll always go on canyon type drives more than tracks. Famous last words I guess.

Lets bring for instance the 911. For me for example the best Porsche 911 is the 997 GT3RS 4.0. Its the sweet spot - grip levels/fun to drive/sound/size/looks etc. The 991 became much more serious , and the 992 is on another level . But Porsche had to move on , they had to make the 991 perform better , and now the 992 even better . Evolution never stops .

The sweet spot might be a subjective thing to anyone . You might say the sweet spot is the 991. Same goes with BMW , the new M2/3/4 is faster than the old one , its just the way it works . Its that simple .

When a new model debuts , the forums are burning. Each one tries to justify or defend their purchase. From the E30 M3 to the “ugly” E36 M3 , people telling it lost its magic . Then with the E46 the same although the model was a huge success. Same goes to the E92 where the car grew up , then the F80/2 with the turbo engine and even bigger size , now with the G8X. It never stops.

Now , after many yrs since the E30/E36/46/92 , no matter how good each generation was , each has its own character , its own fanbase and love !

Im glad BMW created all these M cars , for all the tastes and personalities. The G87 is the last dance for a manual ICE M car. It will gonna go down as a classic one day- with its own character.

There is no reason to try and justify if this is better than the other etc. Yes we can compare cars , we might find a car that matches our personality better , and thats why we re here. I love seeing the evolution of a model thru forums , to hear opinions etc.

Sadly,we can see that more infuencers make videos than journalists that truly know how what to see on a car , what the car is all about. There are still few out there , i hope we can see them giving honest opinions and not just advertising the products because they were invited to.

[bandersen]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Awesome post... Like everything else bmw makes gets better with time.

Obviously you were not around when the 2002 5 series birthed the 2003 w/Bangle butt….or another half dozen examples!! 😀

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by 10"

I have never gone into 1st on any twisty and have driven plenty—in my 1M or any other car for that matter! Totally not needed! Almost any car is geared to pull out from 2nd gear while rolling slowly even—-far slower than 25!

I do it all the time in my Caterham, it does not like running below 2000RPM (idles at 1000RPM, but needs revs to take off cleanly), but can do 90km/h (55mph) in first gear. It does hit the 7800RPM redline in 6th at 220km/h (137mph) though, due to the very tightly packed gear ratios.

[zero21]

Re-watched the Daily Motor video and at 12:08 he does a hard pull in 2nd from 2500 and it takes off like a rocket.

[ESB]

Remove Before Race's review was also really great. You could really see how much he was enjoying it!

Also good to hear him say over and over again how different it is than the M3/M4 and called it more fun many times.

[donm527]

Originally Posted by zero21

Re-watched the Daily Motor video and at 12:08 he does a hard pull in 2nd from 2500 and it takes off like a rocket.

Eh... honestly it looked about the same. TB starts at 18mph and in DM they show the pull starting a little under 30mph. If you look at the TB once it gets to 30mph, it's pretty much pulling just like the car in DM. But there is just a slower build up from 18mph.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by bandersen

Obviously you were not around when the 2002 5 series birthed the 2003 w/Bangle butt….or another half dozen examples!! 😀

I was..i had one 540i...
I thought. They actually looked good

[ESB]

Originally Posted by zero21

Re-watched the Daily Motor video and at 12:08 he does a hard pull in 2nd from 2500 and it takes off like a rocket.

wow what a fun video to watch

agreed that pull looked good. If anyone cares, the difference I saw between it and TH was it starting closer to 2500 like you said (23mph) and TH started closer to 1900 (17mph).

[ESB]

FWIW I don't think my M2C is very fun to pull if I start at 1900. Does it get to 2500+ faster than the G87? I don't know, but I suspect that if it does its marginal.

Maybe I'll give it a go later today and see how it compares.

[cmgbk75]

Forgive if this has been posted already. So much action these days, hard to keep pace.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by zero21

Re-watched the Daily Motor video and at 12:08 he does a hard pull in 2nd from 2500 and it takes off like a rocket.

Just watched this one in the M4 manual and same thing from 18 mph in 2nd- takes off. Why would the M2 be any different? And if you’re doing spirited driving the boost should be there when you downshift to 2nd and floor it, yes? Same exact gear ratios, same exact torque curve.

See 10:18 mark.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by donm527

Eh... honestly it looked about the same. TB starts at 18mph and in DM they show the pull starting a little under 30mph. If you look at the TB once it gets to 30mph, it's pretty much pulling just like the car in DM. But there is just a slower build up from 18mph.

It would make sense that it doesn’t pull well at 18mph in 2nd gear as it is only at about 1900RPM and about 50% of maximum torque from the engine. At 30mph it is at 3100RPM and maximum engine torque.

By shifting into 1st gear at 18mph the revs climb to almost 3400RPM to reach maximum engine torque, with the lower gearing (4.110 vs 2.315 gear ratio), about 3.5 times the torque can be applied at the wheels than in 2nd gear.

[Humdizzle]

i think alot of people are just looking at the dyno numbers and forgetting a bigger turbo needs time to spool up. just because a car makes X amount of power at 3000rpm it doesn't mean you're going to instantly get it if you suddenly jab the throttle.

i've said it a million times but the og m2 has the same 5-60 mph time as a current m3 comp rwd (both auto). there is less mass to move prior to the turbo spooling up, and its turbo is smaller and spools up quicker than the s58s.

[cmgbk75]

Ditto on this dude’s review.

[aerobod]

Besides any turbo lag, assuming the turbo is actually spooled up already, the effect on power being put to the ground is significant depending on revs and gear:

18mph in 2nd gear at 1900RPM and 50% of max torque - 74bhp
30mph in 2nd gear at 3100RPM and 100% of max torque - 239bhp
18mph in 1st gear at 3400RPM and 100% of max torque - 262bhp

[zero21]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Yes been following the whole thing…hence the detective work on my part. He floats to a crawl and then floors it in 2nd. I mean, this is a hugely boosted I6. You can’t just puts around to a stop and then floor it and expect it to launch. Even my comp X drive m3 would have a split second of nothingness if I did that. But that’s not how you drive the thing fast at low speeds and take advantage of this engine. What am I missing?

Thomas swearing the car is gutless below 3500RPM. That's it. We're just looking at video trying to figure out why he'd say that.

The second part is BMW saying the torque curve is the same. If it is, the response would be too since the transmission is the same.

Both things can't be true.

[MmmmmM2]

6 speed manual has power issues, 8ZF too much, which means my 7 M-DCT is the sweet spot (I kid, I kid).

[TargaM2]

[QUOTE="T_U_D;29998272"]I am mobile and do not think this has been posted yet. It went live approx 45 minutes ago.

Fantastic review, very positive & knowledgable, never been a big fan of mrAMG but this is the first review that has me actually interested at the prospect of G87 ownership, also as a current M2CS owner he puts his money where his mouth is.

Is mrAMG becoming mrM ?, given that AMG offer nothing decent besides the A45 imo I understand why he would.

Love that he took the time to photoshop Mperformance parts on the car also, whether you agree with his choices or not this is a great review.

Best part of all is his opening line…”the true flagship of BMW M cars”. This is a FACT that many owners that buy larger luxury M cars for pose value, flashy interiors & other wrong reasons just don’t understand. The M2 represents what M cars are all about...