[michaelthepsycho]

Just to throw in some non-major brands: Stowa, Sinn, Union Glashutte, Zenith, Baume et Mercier, Glycine...

[Chest Rockwell]

While I agree that you really start stepping in to the nice watches at the $5-7K range there are some great watches to be had out there for $3K and under if you are just looking fora nice daily.

When I started getting in to watches I had about the same budget and the brand I was drawn to was Anonimo. They are simmilar to a Panerai because after Panerai was bought up these guys came in and took over their old factory. Or you could always buy second-hand from a trusted retailer. As with most luxury items, if you let someone else take the initial hit you can usually step in to something much nicer than you could have buying new.

[matthewk]

Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar

You're just an ignorant fool. Your uninformed comments about the TAG movement proves that you don't know what the hell you're talking about. There is absolutely no relationship between the high quality, smoothly weighted, hacking movement of a TAG and the toy-like non-hacking movement of a standard-line seiko. It's like trying to claim that my car has a Geo Metro 3-banger underhood instead of a BMW 6.

Here are the facts: TAG is a large multinational company with a lot of marketing power, and the mass-produced nature of their watches is not as pure, fundamental, or handmade as the little old swiss watch manufacturers. It's kinda like comparing, say, BMW to Bentley, Ferrari, or Panoz. And just like with BMW owners, there are some TAG owners who are not WIS's, but many of them are - just check the watch forums.

You know, it's unfortunate the the OP didn't ask the same question on watchuseek or timezone, because he would have been heartily welcomed and given many choices for his money. Instead, it's a contest for the most pompous-ass BMW snob stereotype, and you're leading the pack.

You are obviously a TAG owner.. It's OK, I understand we all have to start somewhere.

However since you are convinced I am the ignorant fool, let's reference some posts from the thought leaders in the forums you mention.

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f25/man...ml#post2483477


http://forums.watchuseek.com/f25/man...ml#post2484468

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f21/tag...ml#post2492335

So there you have it, I guess you are right, I am the ignorant fool, who's uninformed and doesn't know what the hell I'm talking about. And, you're right, there's absolutely no relationship between a TAG movement and a toy-like movement in a Seiko. (well except from the identical parts in the TAG that Seiko made in the 70's go take a look at the column wheel)

I understand Mr. Scotch and Cigars that it's hard trying to justify your purchase to yourself. I am sure there have been many times you have made the comment about how similar the BMW 128i is to the M3, it's ok to be mislead, but it's not OK to call someone ignorant who you don't know.

While I know this is going to sting a but, it will set you free.. Nothing inferior like a Tag or a 128 will ever be high end like you want it to be just because of the rhetoric you speak.

No hard feelings, you're welcome any time to stop by, drink some old Laphroaig and smoke a Cuban Monte #2 with me.


(one other thing since we're keeping each other honest. Techniques d'Avant Garde is not the company behind the TAG Heuer brand any longer. It Louis Vuitton, Moet, Hennessy group now, they are the marketing pump that keeps TAG going. This again proves my point, most people wearing a Heuer watch have no real clue what their wearing. It's funny that they're called TAG at all, given that Heuer is the watch company that TAG bought. TAG is nothing more than an investment group)

[HOG4DNR]

As someone already stated take a look at Sinn (watchbuys.com), they make a lot of different models. I own more of their sport watches, U1, U2 and owned a U1000 (to large for my wrist). Also check out Bell & Ross, have more of a military look, but nice.

If looking for something a little dressier and still a dive watch, look at Ulysse Nardin Maxi Marine Diver, maybe a little more then you want to spend but used ones are out there.

IMO, check out the forums and even eBay, I rarely buy new anymore and you can get a lot more watch for the price.

Once it's on your wrist no one is going to know you bought it used.

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by matthewk

You are obviously a TAG owner.. It's OK, I understand we all have to start somewhere.

However since you are convinced I am the ignorant fool, let's reference some posts from the thought leaders in the forums you mention.

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f25/man...ml#post2483477


http://forums.watchuseek.com/f25/man...ml#post2484468

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f21/tag...ml#post2492335

So there you have it, I guess you are right, I am the ignorant fool, who's uninformed and doesn't know what the hell I'm talking about. And, you're right, there's absolutely no relationship between a TAG movement and a toy-like movement in a Seiko. (well except from the identical parts in the TAG that Seiko made in the 70's go take a look at the column wheel)

Did you even read the threads you posted?

Tag acknowledged that they are sharing some technology from the Seiko but have also significantly altered and improved upon it. Toy-like movement...lol.

You realize that it's a high-end Seiko caliber, right? Found in a $3000 Flightmaster -- i.e. it's not a 7S26 in $150 watches.

Most of the posters in those threads support that it's a very good design and results in better quality and reliability with the refinements.

There were only a couple of posters in the thread that made a big deal about this and most got quiet when the Tag CEO himself, addressed the matter.

So if you're pissed at Tag's marketing department for being a little too aggressive then so be it, but to blanketly dismiss the brand is truly laughable and a disservice to the OP who is asking about mid-ranged watches.

You also failed to acknowledge the fact that Rolex' actuallly keep poor time for the price but still support them. I love them too, but talk about a marketing machine.

[carve]

100 years ago, when it was difficult to find an accurate timepiece, I would've been a total watch nerd. I'm a mechanical engineer and appreciate all the creative mechanisms over a circuit-board, too.

Today however, there are clocks everywhere, including your phone (which will keep better time than any watch since it's constantly updated). A $75 Timex will keep time as well as any high-end watch and probably much better (the crappiest quartz watches are accurate to within .5 sec per day), have more features than most, and be a worry-free experience (e.g., you can wear it mountain biking...rock climbing...working in the yard...whatever. No big deal if you break it). If you're really into features, a $200 outdoor watch will have thermometers, altimeters, alarms, timers, etc. Move up to $300 and you can add a heart rate monitor and GPS (you will NEVER find a more accurate watch than something GPS based). So, it isn't about function and features- it's about being pretty jewelry.

So, a watch gets you two things: the convenience of telling time without pulling your phone out, and being a pretty piece of jewelry.

I'm not a jewelry person, so I couldn't care less about the latter. If you are though, and have $3k to spend, get whatever you think is prettiest. They'll all work fine- even the ones with Seiko inside.

I disagree with the car analogy. While one thing a nice car will do better is be prettier, they also perform better, handle better, are quieter, and are loaded with comfort and convenience features. With a watch, they MIGHT be prettier, and they work differently without being appreciably better. Just get whatever you think looks the best for $3k. Unless the only reason you're buying it is to impress others. In that case, good question, and I agree with the watch guys: save up and spend more.

If i had $3k to spend on a watch, I'd get a dive computer and a dive vacation to go along with it...or a Timex and a new mountain bike, skis with ski vacation, race-driving lessons, etc. You know...things you actually get to enjoy

[BayMoWe335]

Originally Posted by BMWonderful

You know, I will never understand why people who drive bmw's are sterotyped as pricks so often. I for one see shining examples of the best of society all over this forum everyday, makes me real proud to own a bmw just like these people.

OP, you should just take the 3k in cash and burn it, then you will be really boss and you won't have to go through the inconvenience of having to wear the monthly take home pay of a lot of people in this country on your wrist. That is obviously ghetto.






Oh, and in be for "i was just kidding."

I don't even own a watch. My BMW is all credit.

[ScotchAndCigar]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

Did you even read the threads you posted?
Tag acknowledged that they are sharing some technology from the Seiko but have also significantly altered and improved upon it. Toy-like movement...lol.
Most of the posters in those threads support that it's a very good design and results in better quality and reliability with the refinements.

^This.

Originally Posted by matthewk

You are obviously a TAG owner.. It's OK, I understand we all have to start somewhere.
I understand Mr. Scotch and Cigars that it's hard trying to justify your purchase to yourself. I am sure there have been many times you have made the comment about how similar the BMW 128i is to the M3, it's ok to be mislead, but it's not OK to call someone ignorant who you don't know.

While I know this is going to sting a but, it will set you free.. Nothing inferior like a Tag or a 128 will ever be high end like you want it to be just because of the rhetoric you speak.
(one other thing since we're keeping each other honest. Techniques d'Avant Garde is not the company behind the TAG Heuer brand any longer. It Louis Vuitton, Moet, Hennessy group now, they are the marketing pump that keeps TAG going. This again proves my point, most people wearing a Heuer watch have no real clue what their wearing. It's funny that they're called TAG at all, given that Heuer is the watch company that TAG bought. TAG is nothing more than an investment group)

Wow, this is some messed-up sh!t. I base my opinions on what people say, and you have some major issues.

You have a real complex about needing to feel right and superior. Yes, I know exactly what a TAG is, I own many brands, that's just one of them. I got exactly what I paid for with that purchase. There is just no need to have a juvenile dick-waving contest about it. And I'm not "starting out", I'm not climbing any social mountain, I feel all my watches were good purchases both in value and style, and that's all that matters.

You know that Coach handbags are made in China, and that Seiko has a premier line. Not everything is so clear-cut.

Also, I don't want an M3, I want a 128 vert. I don't know why you have a need to flaunt your purchases like they're gauges of success. And Laphroig is not my thing.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by matthewk

You are obviously a TAG owner.. It's OK, I understand we all have to start somewhere.

However since you are convinced I am the ignorant fool, let's reference some posts from the thought leaders in the forums you mention.


So there you have it, I guess you are right, I am the ignorant fool, who's uninformed and doesn't know what the hell I'm talking about. And, you're right, there's absolutely no relationship between a TAG movement and a toy-like movement in a Seiko. (well except from the identical parts in the TAG that Seiko made in the 70's go take a look at the column wheel)

I understand Mr. Scotch and Cigars that it's hard trying to justify your purchase to yourself. I am sure there have been many times you have made the comment about how similar the BMW 128i is to the M3, it's ok to be mislead, but it's not OK to call someone ignorant who you don't know.

While I know this is going to sting a but, it will set you free.. Nothing inferior like a Tag or a 128 will ever be high end like you want it to be just because of the rhetoric you speak.

No hard feelings, you're welcome any time to stop by, drink some old Laphroaig and smoke a Cuban Monte #2 with me.


(one other thing since we're keeping each other honest. Techniques d'Avant Garde is not the company behind the TAG Heuer brand any longer. It Louis Vuitton, Moet, Hennessy group now, they are the marketing pump that keeps TAG going. This again proves my point, most people wearing a Heuer watch have no real clue what their wearing. It's funny that they're called TAG at all, given that Heuer is the watch company that TAG bought. TAG is nothing more than an investment group)

All you need is some less refined English and you have a great rap song. "Look what I can buy, yo!"

I get a kick out of those who think anything other than what they own is a piece of shit.

[BTM]

Most people who buy a BMW have no real clue what their driving...M models included.

[ZJP]

Don't listen to the snobs who posted above saying to save up more. You certainly can get a very nice timepiece for $3k or less.


Here are just a few examples;

http://www.authenticwatches.com/omeg...404004001.html

http://www.authenticwatches.com/oris...6144174mb.html

http://www.authenticwatches.com/tag-...10-ba0796.html

http://www.authenticwatches.com/hami...h77616133.html

http://www.authenticwatches.com/raym...-ti-05607.html

http://www.authenticwatches.com/bell...-heritage.html

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar

Don't really know why the posts are all looking like this.

So aside from most of the TAG automatics, there's the Omega Seamaster, or the Oris TT. Yes, for $3K you can't get a panerai, rolex, or IWC. But there's a million top brand watches for 2-3K.

I said I was no expert.....

I'm with Carve on this one. I wear a $400 watch but ride a $4500 mtn bike. I like and want a $5000 watch, and can afford it, but choose other things and experiences.

For me though, when looking at watches felt that between say $500 and $4000 there wasn't anything that I was attracted to; hence the no mans land comment.

[matthewk]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

Did you even read the threads you posted?

Tag acknowledged that they are sharing some technology from the Seiko but have also significantly altered and improved upon it. Toy-like movement...lol.



Most of the posters in those threads support that it's a very good design and results in better quality and reliability with the refinements.

There were only a couple of posters in the thread that made a big deal about this and most got quiet when the Tag CEO himself, addressed the matter.

So if you're pissed at Tag's marketing department for being a little too aggressive then so be it, but to blanketly dismiss the brand is truly laughable and a disservice to the OP who is asking about mid-ranged watches.

You also failed to acknowledge the fact that Rolex' actuallly keep poor time for the price but still support them. I love them too, but talk about a marketing machine.

The TAG CEO made his comments after TAG took a bunch of egg in the face over claiming it was a fully in-house developed movement in its early advertisements and it was subsequently proven that it was largely a seiko movement. I am not saying Seiko is bad not the intent of my comment at all. But IMHO companies fall in to the SUCK category when they claim their components are of there own engineering, but in reality they are buying IP from an asian company and leaving much of that purchased IP in place in their designs. It's a gross misrepresentation of their product.

Again, my point is, and was, for the price point when you look at the things that make fine timepieces what they are and contrast TAG against those qualities, I find that compared tot he market they suck.

I completely agree within its own context my comment "TAG suck" was largely hyperbole, but at least I have some rationale for the argument. Regardless of who agrees with me or not.

[matthewk]

Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar

^This.
Wow, this is some messed-up sh!t. I base my opinions on what people say, and you have some major issues.

You have a real complex about needing to feel right and superior. Yes, I know exactly what a TAG is, I own many brands, that's just one of them. I got exactly what I paid for with that purchase. There is just no need to have a juvenile dick-waving contest about it. And I'm not "starting out", I'm not climbing any social mountain, I feel all my watches were good purchases both in value and style, and that's all that matters.

You know that Coach handbags are made in China, and that Seiko has a premier line. Not everything is so clear-cut.

Also, I don't want an M3, I want a 128 vert. I don't know why you have a need to flaunt your purchases like they're gauges of success. And Laphroig is not my thing.

You came out of the gates with "You're just an ignorant fool.", the only thing I was foolish about was allowing you to goad me into the kind of response I gave you.

Truth is I was talking about a watch, your finding some kind of personal connection to it and attacking me was really the shocker in this whole mess. For whatever the reason your only response to comments not directed to you was resorting to name calling, I gladly relent and you can be right.

I must apologize for those who lost brain cells reading my drivel, ScotchandCigar got the best of me.

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by matthewk

The TAG CEO made his comments after TAG took a bunch of egg in the face over claiming it was a fully in-house developed movement in it's early advertisements and it was subsequently proven that it was largely a seiko movement. I am not saying Seiko is bad not the intent of my comment at all. But IMHO companies fall in to the SUCK category when they claim their components are of there own engineering, but in reality they are buying IP from an asian company and leaving much of that purchased IP in place in their designs. It's a gross misrepresentation of their product.

Which is just one more case of the marketing department overstepping their bounds and potentially damaging a company with it's words. There are multiple examples of this across a wide range of products.

This doesn't change the fact that for a high volume watch producer, they make a good product at their price point.

Again, my point is, and was, for the price point when you look at the things that make fine timepieces what they are and contrast TAG against those qualities, I find that compared tot he market they suck.

You are not going to find the same qualities in a high volume company like Tag that you're going to find in an AP, VC, Patek, etc. It simply isn't possible to put that kind of technology into a watch unless you're doing low volume production and charging the big dollars that come as a result.

I completely agree within its own context my comment "TAG suck" was largely hyperbole, but at least I have some rationale for the argument. Regardless of who agrees with me or not.

I don't find your rationale worthy at all. You're slaying an entire company because of a marketing blunder. That fact alone doesn't change that they make a decent product. The controversy that you have brought up is widely acknowledged as being a very good movement that was improved upon and expanded to be better.

You also come in claiming to know watches and critique movements but recommend/support Rolex. While I like the designs and will certainly own one at some point, as strictly timepieces, you'd have more to criticize them than Tag.

As I mentioned previously, all of my buddies Rolex spend more time in the shop and don't keep nearly as good time as my Tags. That's the trade off for owning one of the premier brands in the world? Marketing machine for the win again.

[carve]

Cheers, Mp0wer. Here's my $5500 time piece (it's the little bump next the the stem)



It's a highly precise German brand- VDO. It'll keep time to within about a minute per year, and will run for several years with no winding up or battery changes. It tracks time, elapsed time, mileage, speed, average speed, total distance, trip distance, and temperature. Distance is measured via a special radio transmitter. For a band, it's attached to a 5 pound mandrel-formed unidirectional carbon fiber frame with 100mm of travel. It has 29" carbon fiber tubeless wheels with the strength of downhill wheels and the weight of cross country wheels. It has dual hydraulic disc brakes, a 30-speed drivetrain, and a super-percise fork, adjustable from 95 to 120mm of travel. It's built to take a lot of punishment, and still comes in at 26 pounds even. It's quite a time piece, much better looking and far more entertaining than most others I've seen

[Quick6EF]

I love my Baume. Paid cash and cut a good amount from the 3k tag.

BTW OP when asking for advice like this it would help not to be so fucking general with your request.

[BTM]

Originally Posted by carve

I disagree with the car analogy. While one thing a nice car will do better is be prettier, they also perform better, handle better, are quieter, and are loaded with comfort and convenience features. With a watch, they MIGHT be prettier, and they work differently without being appreciably better.

All the car analogy was that a basic timex can get the job done just as well as a camry will take you to work. If all you want from the device is getting to work, or knowing the time, then it's stupid to buy an expensive watch or nice car. But if you value things above and beyond, then spending more can be justified. Watches are interesting like that because from the time perspective, many of the more expensive ones actually perform worse. But in the feel, appearance, etc, there is no comparison. It's a piece of jewelry like you said. I love putting my watch on every morning, just like I love getting in my car. I wouldn't get the same enjoyment from wearing a timex in a coralla

[EINSER M]

Originally Posted by BTM

Have an Oris that lists for 2,something, but can be had for much less. I love it. There are plenty of quality pieces out there. Decide what you want to use the watch for, what your style is, and this will help you narrow down your choices. In your price bracket, there are a lot.

(normal face doesn't say anything. How large a case looks depends on how big your wrist is. So you should try some on and get an idea of what size case fits your wrist best)

+1 ORIS FTW

[Axelfuzz]

I had no idea I would incite such venom with this post.

Thank you to those that shared suggestions.

With regard to my needs:

I'm looking for a nice daily. I work in banking, so an interesting time piece is a cool conversation starter.

I like Tags, but was thinking of something outside the box.

Breitlings are common around me, so the style does nothing for me.

[carve]

Originally Posted by BTM

All the car analogy was that a basic timex can get the job done just as well as a camry will take you to work. If all you want from the device is getting to work, or knowing the time, then it's stupid to buy an expensive watch or nice car. But if you value things above and beyond, then spending more can be justified. Watches are interesting like that because from the time perspective, many of the more expensive ones actually perform worse. But in the feel, appearance, etc, there is no comparison. It's a piece of jewelry like you said. I love putting my watch on every morning, just like I love getting in my car. I wouldn't get the same enjoyment from wearing a timex in a coralla

The Timex with quartz will tell time BETTER than any mechanical movement based watch, and will offer just as many amenities and features. The only difference is they are sometimes less stylish and, if you cracked it open, it would look different inside. It would be like if the Camry had Ferrari level performance and 7-series appointments, but you bought a limited production vehicle that looked like a Bently but performed like a Tata Nano, but did it with a really unique and interesting, if a bit old fashioned, engine.

Enjoyment? Uhh...you could drive the hell out of your car, but you aren't going to tell the hell out of the time. As far as luxury/feel...the less I feel, the better. Luxury cars are only notable in their elimination of discomfort. The less you notice, the better. Light weight and a comfortable band are the biggest factors for feel, and Timex usually wins there, too. I'm sure the high-end watch has much nicer buttons though. I wonder if one day people will have 1990 style analog phones, but built with the finest craftsmenship...great wood and metal...hand-made lead acid battery, etc.?

[Chest Rockwell]

check out thepurists.com

head to the watchpro section and find something that you like.