[mrdudley]

Originally Posted by manitou202

Porsche's pricing has gotten way out of hand. The 911T is very attractive, but as others have mentioned, it will easily be $150k out the door once you spec a handful of options.

A GT3 now starts at $225k. In 2018 a new GT3 started at $143k.

I'll be curious if they can continue to keep the prices so high, or if the Porsche bubble will finally burst.

I think they’ll be able to keep increasing prices. Rich people are getting richer faster (and younger). And a 911 is like French Wine. A luxury good where demand outstrips supply.

Edit: other examples include Leica cameras or Hermes/Chanel handbags.

[MisanoblueZ4]

Owning a manual is becoming the car equivalent of tik tok influencers. What used to be entry level spec is now commanding big $$ as the enthusiasts are willing to pay. Porsche is going to milk this for all it’s worth and they sure are with the pricing. Hopefully BMW doesn’t follow the trend of pricy manual options.

This 911T is also being discussed in the Z4 section with equal disgust for the pricing lol. Seems a lot of people are talking about the car…..if no one cares about it there wouldn’t be the attention it’s received.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

didn't hear that the 992 turbo would get a manual- thats actually refreshing to hear. i was a bit worried they would transition the turbo fully to a luxury variant (vs a sporting variant) and only offer PDK.

still, pricing has gotten ridiculous, options are ridiculous, performance is behind much cheaper cars. i remember recently talking to a group of young guys at a car show in a wealthy suburb (probably 18-20), and when we talked about porsche, they hand waved it away as what their dad drove after the divorce to his golf club and unattainable status symbols. they wanted to see the hellcats, GT500s, the tuned up CTRs, etc. they wanted to see what the people on instagram are doing donuts with in empty parking lots and people are roll racing on freeways. theres VERY few porsches doing this anywhere now outside of professional influencers and as such have very little street cred with the kids who will be dictating resale prices in 20 years. the want to buy what the HITTERS are driving, now.

you may say, great, the kids and the riffraff dont want my P-cars. all the better! but ultimately, those are the people who will decide if your diaper dried 911 is worth 50k or 150k in short order. all this to say- i think the insane gatekeeping (pricing and otherwise) of 911s will ultimately hurt the brand long run and have a massive negative impact on pricing long term.

What this example fails to realize is that the 911 will still be a status symbol when these kids can finally afford one. They'll still buy one 20 yrs from now keeping prices high. Hellcats, Mustangs & CTRs are not status symbols.

They say the same things about Corvettes, yet they line up to buy them after they turn 55

[Charley135]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

- No, not at 399 hp and 331 lb-ft tq. It wont throw you in your seat like a G87 will. If you're into cornering, then sure, but I prefer my fun cars to have both power and cornering.
- No, not without the visual flair of the GT cars.

- No, it's underpowered compared to the G87, though it will most likely outgrip it if properly driven by an experienced driver. If you put semi slicks on the G87, probably a toss up.

Also, don't forget the price $136K after delivery for the coupe and $149K after delivery for the cab are the starting price prior to any options nor dealer markups.

Good luck.

the power to weight ratio is better on the 911.
I put more than 7500 miles on my m2 + 10 track days on semi slick. it's fun but you can really feel the weight on cornering.
When you follow some Porsche you understand why the car is more expensive.
It is worth the price? to each is answer

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by mrdudley

I think they’ll be able to keep increasing prices. Rich people are getting richer faster (and younger). And a 911 is like French Wine. A luxury good where demand outstrips supply.

Edit: other examples include Leica cameras or Hermes/Chanel handbags.

actually really ironic the examples you quote, as French vineyards are ripping out supply at a record pace due to low demand, and luxury sales in general are slow.

two points: first, porsches are NOT handcrafted, artisan goods. almost 12,000 911s were sold in the US alone in 2023, and over 10,000 in 2022. you need a broad base of upper middle class and above buyers to support the values. without that, you have a problem.

second: tastes are constantly changing. muscle cars saw their epic drop in recent times as the age demographic shifted to the new hot thing in classic cars. porsche will be no different. assuming unlimited upside forever is positively unrealistic.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

What this example fails to realize is that the 911 will still be a status symbol when these kids can finally afford one. They'll still buy one 20 yrs from now keeping prices high. Hellcats, Mustangs & CTRs are not status symbols.

They say the same things about Corvettes, yet they line up to buy them after they turn 55

this counter-example fails to recognize two things, and is deeply entrenched in what i call "old guy lens"

one, classic and desirable P-cars were, in general, extremely low production. i can understand why a 993 turbo is worth insane dollars: there were only 1,909 sold in the US for the entire production run. in fact, there were only 24k 993s sold across all four model years in the US, with ~68k made globally. compare that to the ~230k 991s sold globally... you start to see the problem. only highly desirable specs will be worth real money in the future. you will not see PDK base model 911s selling for what automatic base 993 coupes do today; the numbers simply dont work.

two, well kept "normal cars" are absolutely collectable and increasingly so these days. check out this 42k mile mk4 20thAE that ran for 36k, this low mile corrado that went for 47k, or this 10k mile Lexus LS600h L that sold for 51k(!!!)

[BimmerFix]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

actually really ironic the examples you quote, as French vineyards are ripping out supply at a record pace due to low demand, and luxury sales in general are slow.

two points: first, porsches are NOT handcrafted, artisan goods. almost 12,000 911s were sold in the US alone in 2023, and over 10,000 in 2022. you need a broad base of upper middle class and above buyers to support the values. without that, you have a problem.

second: tastes are constantly changing. muscle cars saw their epic drop in recent times as the age demographic shifted to the new hot thing in classic cars. porsche will be no different. assuming unlimited upside forever is positively unrealistic.

They are juicing the 911 platform for all it's worth . Eventually it will catch up to them

Almost $150k for the base & GT cars are close to exotic car prices

Not sustainable and yet they keep raising numbers every year.

Porsche is going to hit a brick wall with their customer base sooner rather than later. Especially as the fed slash prime rates and this turns into a buyers market maybe in a year or two.

This just cements the fact, that the M3/4 are such an insane value. with the M2 even more so

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by Charley135

the power to weight ratio is better on the 911.

Yes, but it is literally negligible.

According to Porsche, the 911T weights 3316 lbs.
So
2025 911T weight: 3316, 399 hp
2025 G87 (manual w/carbon pkg) weight 3700, 473 hp

911T: .120 lbs per hp
G87: .127 lbs per hp

The G87 has that turbo torque that the N/A 911 doesn't, which more than makes up for it and is huge on the street too.

[RMB]

They are both turbo, but the 3.0 liter flat 6 twin turbo only has 311 lb-ft of torque. Compared to the 992.1 the 992.2 now has the larger turbo's (possible more lag now as the smaller turbo's from before that was argued as a positive at the time/less lag according to owners) from the 992.1 GTS?/S and the larger intercooler from the 911 turbo model. Either way, I would want more than 311 torque and 389 hp from my car that is well past 130k with anything that is an option (porsche options and standard equipment are a joke).

[curtdragon]

Originally Posted by LateBrake8

Wrong forum bro

Agreed
The price is wild... Metal roof most base options except audio and color and it's $140k
Add options to match my $80k M2 (custom paint, carbon buckets and roof) jumps to $162 or $150 with a standard color.

All the wheels are ugly and the shifter is out of place. Like wood doesn't belong with touring or sporty.
Can't change that color they chose for the side mirror caps. The previous was a great color that worked with most exterior colors. The selection color looks more grey while the image of the car has a light blue/green hue. The color is ok if you choose that color but it doesn't go well with most colors.

I would like a Gentian blue with aerokit and carbon buckets and roof 992.1 though lol

[MocoLoco]

Originally Posted by MisanoblueZ4

Owning a manual is becoming the car equivalent of tik tok influencers. What used to be entry level spec is now commanding big $$ as the enthusiasts are willing to pay. Porsche is going to milk this for all it’s worth and they sure are with the pricing. Hopefully BMW doesn’t follow the trend of pricy manual options.

This 911T is also being discussed in the Z4 section with equal disgust for the pricing lol. Seems a lot of people are talking about the car…..if no one cares about it there wouldn’t be the attention it’s received.

I get this sentiment. But at least there’s options for lower cost manuals that are close to the quality. Such as M2-4. I find it ok to price the 911t at that price because it should be more coveted. But with the caveat of having to offer a manual for a lower cost car like the 714. As long as they do this I’m alright with it. At the end of the day, the 911t is expensive but it’ll hold it’s value quite well.

[IanH]

Not sure why everyone is talking about "once you option it it will be $XXXX" since the T has all of the options you would want on a 911 for performance already. (PASM, SC, others) so basically the only options you're looking at are color and some tech stuff... can option a pretty nice build for under $140k

It says a lot that you can add like 80k easily in options that are just looks.

Anyway, still getting very pricey but its because porsche has succeeded in entering the next level above the market they were previously in.

[mrdudley]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

actually really ironic the examples you quote, as French vineyards are ripping out supply at a record pace due to low demand, and luxury sales in general are slow.

two points: first, porsches are NOT handcrafted, artisan goods. almost 12,000 911s were sold in the US alone in 2023, and over 10,000 in 2022. you need a broad base of upper middle class and above buyers to support the values. without that, you have a problem.

second: tastes are constantly changing. muscle cars saw their epic drop in recent times as the age demographic shifted to the new hot thing in classic cars. porsche will be no different. assuming unlimited upside forever is positively unrealistic.

Love the sources! And I should have been more surgical as there is nuance.

For French wine, I should have picked specific brands or a region vs the industry as a whole. Burgundy has continued to get more and more expensive.

I picked Hermes and Chanel specifically because they have bucked the trend of slumping luxury goods sales.

What you have to ask then, is Porsche more like Hermes/Chanel or more like Gucci? If that latter, which I think is what you are saying, then I whole heartedly agree with you. The party will end.

But I’d argue the Porsche strategy is more like Hermes/Chanel. Keep design timeless and avoid trends. Keep raising the price and exclusivity on your premium “halo” products. Offer a bunch of lower priced but still premium items that customers snap up because of the brand. Sales relationships and access based on customer spend.

I guess time will tell. Put a pin in this and we can come back in a few years to see who was right haha.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by mrdudley

Love the sources! And I should have been more surgical as there is nuance.

For French wine, I should have picked specific brands or a region vs the industry as a whole. Burgundy has continued to get more and more expensive.

I picked Hermes and Chanel specifically because they have bucked the trend of slumping luxury goods sales.

What you have to ask then, is Porsche more like Hermes/Chanel or more like Gucci? If that latter, which I think is what you are saying, then I whole heartedly agree with you. The party will end.

But I’d argue the Porsche strategy is more like Hermes/Chanel. Keep design timeless and avoid trends. Keep raising the price and exclusivity on your premium “halo” products. Offer a bunch of lower priced but still premium items that customers snap up because of the brand. Sales relationships and access based on customer spend.

I guess time will tell. Put a pin in this and we can come back in a few years to see who was right haha.

i think the party will end- for most. you'll see the 911 market mirror more closely the corvette market. run of the mill base cars will be had cheaply and plentifully. turbo and GT cars will fare well but nowhere near the astronomical sales prices we see today, or have seen historically for their predecessors. "classic" 911s will continue to trade hands exclusively as pieces of art speculation. any pedestrian water cooled will eventually become recognized for what they are- slow and wildly expensive to fix, but good looking and nice to drive. theres simply no overcoming the deprecation bomb of hundreds of thousands of used post 991 911s coming online in a few decades, combined with a shift in tastes and sentiment from young buyers.

[LateBrake8]

Originally Posted by curtdragon

Agreed
The price is wild... Metal roof most base options except audio and color and it's $140k
Add options to match my $80k M2 (custom paint, carbon buckets and roof) jumps to $162 or $150 with a standard color.

All the wheels are ugly and the shifter is out of place. Like wood doesn't belong with touring or sporty.
Can't change that color they chose for the side mirror caps. The previous was a great color that worked with most exterior colors. The selection color looks more grey while the image of the car has a light blue/green hue. The color is ok if you choose that color but it doesn't go well with most colors.

I would like a Gentian blue with aerokit and carbon buckets and roof 992.1 though lol

Although these entry level Porsches are very fun and capable cars, I don't see them as true enthusiast offerings. Their target demographic, imo, falls into one of two categories: the mid/late-life crisis buyer and the younger tech/finance/law/med bro who wants everyone to know they drive a Porsche.

No hate or judgment from me. I just see base Porsches as status symbols that people are willing to overpay for. No chance in hell I'm approaching preowned Huracan money for a 379hp base model 911.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

this counter-example fails to recognize two things, and is deeply entrenched in what i call "old guy lens"

I guess if mid-40s is old, I'm guilty. The fact is, in my areas which are pretty affluent, I see a ton of Porsche daily. They're still a status symbol and something that professionals seek to attain. So while those 18-20 yr olds don't seem to care about them now, they will in about 10 years. P-cars will continue to be high-priced (over-priced for what they are, imo), both new & thus used.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

I guess if mid-40s is old, I'm guilty. The fact is, in my areas which are pretty affluent, I see a ton of Porsche daily. They're still a status symbol and something that professionals seek to attain. So while those 18-20 yr olds don't seem to care about them now, they will in about 10 years. P-cars will continue to be high-priced (over-priced for what they are, imo), both new & thus used.

oh trust me, they are the single most popular sports car in my area by a ratio of, if i had to guess, 4:1 over the next most popular option (probably the C8 or M4). that's part of my hypothesis; the supply wave of used 991 and up 911s will simply be unable to find broad based price support in the midst of other used, faster, more reliable, cheaper to run options (M4, C8, hellcat, LC500, et al). the 911s reign as default status symbol option is coming to a close shortly. but i see your point.

[Squidget]

Porsche: THE car of Dentists.

[JMcLellan]

If I had a 150K budget I would absolutely buy a Porsche. Yes, there is a level of status symbol that goes with them but they are still incredible cars. I've only driven a GT3 RS but would love to see what a Carrera S or 4s drives like as some of those could be in a future budget.

My wife wants a vintage Porsche so maybe we make that happen with a future purchase but I'd want to keep the M2 to have the hot motor and modern tech.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by JMcLellan

If I had a 150K budget I would absolutely buy a Porsche. Yes, there is a level of status symbol that goes with them but they are still incredible cars. I've only driven a GT3 RS but would love to see what a Carrera S or 4s drives like as some of those could be in a future budget.

My wife wants a vintage Porsche so maybe we make that happen with a future purchase but I'd want to keep the M2 to have the hot motor and modern tech.

150k buys you:

a V10 R8 (in coupe or spyder!)

an AMG GT R (again in coupe or roadster!)

an array of wonderful NA2 NSXs

a ZR1 vette

almost any M car your heart desires

and you would choose a... *checks notes* garden variety, 350 hp, every dentist has a better one 911? alright brother, your money!

[JMcLellan]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

150k buys you:

a V10 R8 (in coupe or spyder!)

an AMG GT R (again in coupe or roadster!)

an array of wonderful NA2 NSXs

a ZR1 vette

almost any M car your heart desires

and you would choose a... *checks notes* garden variety, 350 hp, every dentist has a better one 911? alright brother, your money!

If I were to spend 150k on a porsche it would have a lot more juice than 350 hp, I didn't mean the new carrera T. I'm assuming for that price point there would be some rocketship options looking at some used cars. I hear you on the other options and I was able to drive an R8 and the AMG GTR. Both incredible, with the AMG being my favorite of the two but I am not an Audi or Mercedes guy. Overall, I wish I had the problem of figuring out what to get with a 150k budget.

[BroDoze]

Turbo S or GTFO