[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by Mhrob24

New to driving manual. Picked my car up about a month ago. Have gotten way better and can get away basically driving it anywhere, but I’m still not happy with my driving. 2 things are concerning me:

1. The 1-2 shift in this car is ass. I’ve heard others mention it I think, but holy shit is it bad. Prolly worse for me because I’m new at this, but for the life of me I cannot get a fairly smooth 1-2 shift unless I take wayyy too long letting out the clutch. I can get a good shift with minimal jerk, but the time it takes me to let off the gas, clutch disengage , shift, and then slowly engage takes too long in regular traffic. I’m getting people beeping at me and I’m sick and tired of it lol. Any tips on this particular shift? Every other shift I’m golden at…I just let right off the clutch and no jerk.

2. Are most of you guys just feathing the clutch to take off without using any gas? I’m asking because I’ve been doing this since I started getting better with knowing the bite point, but when I do this, I get this vibrating/shudder, which I believe is just the engine bogging….Is this bad practice? I think maybe I’m still just to quickly passing by the bite point, but even if I do it very very slowly there is still SOME bogging. Idk if this is just normal or it’s my own doing.

Have encountered a number of posts about how bad this transmission is but my experience is just the opposite. The best clutch/transmission setup -- tied with the other best clutch/transmission setups -- I have enjoyed with other cars.

I do have the shift assist feature turned on. I know it plays a welcome role in smooth downshifts. It may play a role in smooth up shifts. I have not bothered to turn it off to find out. I like the way the transmission shifts and if shift assist contributes to that I'm ok with that.

I have recommended a new owner experiment with letting the clutch out smoothly/slowly with the engine at idle with no extra throttle to get a feel for how the engine controller will work to keep RPMs up. This tends to reduce the fear of stalling the engine. That you are experiencing some shudder/feeling like the engine is bogging suggests you are not as smooth with the clutch as you need to be when doing this experiment.

I say experiment but I also rely upon this technique when pulling my car out of the garage as I have to make a sharp turn immediately. So I want the take off to be smooth but slow.

Likewise when I go to back the car into the garage. I want to slowly back the car and get it into the garage with no drama.

I also use just the clutch with no throttle when I pull into a parking space and when I pull out again.

On the road though I give the engine a bit of throttle just enough to raise RPMs to ~1K and simultaneously let off the throttle while smoothly letting the clutch out. The car moves off from a stop smoothly with minimal clutch slippage. The kinetic energy the flywheel has from this extra bit of RPMs is sufficient to get the car moving. As the car moves off at the proper time of course I apply some throttle to accelerate the car. The transition from being stopped to moving off to accelerating to whatever speed I desire is very smooth. This has been my technique for decades and I have never worn out a clutch, even to 150K miles and beyond.

(Well one car's clutch did manifest behavior that indicated it was worn out -- the clutch pedal required excessive effort to depress -- but this was at 317K miles.)

Smooth engagement coupled with letting the clutch out neither too fast -- shuddering -- or too slow -- excessive slippage -- is the technique you are after.

As this is your first manual transmission I will add as others have offered practice practice practice.

As you practice focus on identifying bad habits/sloppiness and work to eliminate them. You want to develop good "muscle memory" so working the throttle/clutch to get the car moving smoothly and smooth shifting up or down becomes automatic (no pun...).

[Geighty7]

Originally Posted by BIGW0RM

After having a 6MT E92 m3, and DCT e92 m3. As well as having a f82 6MT M4 and a f80 m3 DCT. Plus two g80 auto m3. And now the 6MT g87. I do agree that the DCT/ autos do seem to match the engines better.

You sound like quite the M collector/enthusiast. I love it! Sounds like you know what you like in each platform.

I agree with your DCT comment. That is why I ended up with a 6MT G87. If it came as a DCT paired with the S58, it would be a no brainer as BMW has disregarded to upgrade their manual platform in over 10 years.

[BIGW0RM]

Originally Posted by Geighty7

You sound like quite the M collector/enthusiast. I love it! Sounds like you know what you like in each platform.

I agree with your DCT comment. That is why I ended up with a 6MT G87. If it came as a DCT paired with the S58, it would be a no brainer as BMW has disregarded to upgrade their manual platform in over 10 years.

Thank you.

I am a true enthusiast! BMW actually called me yesterday and tell me thank you for being so loyal and having SO many M cars over the years. First time they have ever done that for me. It was cool.

Oh yea, DCT is KING to me. DCT or PDK all day for me. The AUTO is as close as I can get so be it. It is what it is.

[Geighty7]

Originally Posted by BIGW0RM

Thank you.

I am a true enthusiast! BMW actually called me yesterday and tell me thank you for being so loyal and having SO many M cars over the years. First time they have ever done that for me. It was cool.

Oh yea, DCT is KING to me. DCT or PDK all day for me. The AUTO is as close as I can get so be it. It is what it is.

I did notice after driving my friend’s tuned G80 with the XHp trans flash, the ZF8 had characteristics of the old DCT.

Still bothers me that they went with a torque converter, but it just goes to show that if you want the DCT feeling, it’s still achievable.

Maybe warranty won’t like it

[BIGW0RM]

Well, I dumped my 3 week old 6MT today. I went back to paddles. The 6MT was fun. But I did one 2hr bumper to bumper drive down the 5 south from OC to San Diego and that just ruined it for me.

I had a gorgeous FPG with silver wheels. But I’m happy to be out of the manual and I’ll never do matte paint again. The fear of one scratch just made me so paranoid to enjoy how gorgeous it was. And if I was going to PPF it, I’d rather have a normal color and make it matte. That way I could have best of both worlds.

Anyhow, heres the new one. And old one side by side. New one isn’t as pretty, but I’m happier overall.

[SpaceGhost]

Originally Posted by BIGW0RM

Well, I dumped my 3 week old 6MT today. I went back to paddles. The 6MT was fun. But I did one 2hr bumper to bumper drive down the 5 south from OC to San Diego and that just ruined it for me.

I had a gorgeous FPG with silver wheels. But I’m happy to be out of the manual and I’ll never do matte paint again. The fear of one scratch just made me so paranoid to enjoy how gorgeous it was. And if I was going to PPF it, I’d rather have a normal color and make it matte. That way I could have best of both worlds.

Anyhow, heres the new one. And old one side by side. New one isn’t as pretty, but I’m happier overall.

Man I feel you on this one. I started out ordering a 6mt but changed for a number of reasons...one of them being road construction near me that may never end. I also lusted after the FPG but was scared of the maintenence for a matte finish. I am now going Skyscraper and zf8. My m240 was Brooklyn Gray. It is a great color and i am sure it will grow on you. Good luck with the new ride.

[minn19]

I’ve had a lot of MTs in the past and driven them for decades blah blah etc etc. I sometimes still have trouble in this car for some reason starting off smoothly. I either under rev and get the chatter or over rev and slip the clutch too much from time to time. Need to do the clutch stop and CDV delete me thinks.

Agree with BIGW0RM about the F80 DCT. If this car had that option available it would be my choice.

[BIGW0RM]

Originally Posted by minn19

I’ve had a lot of MTs in the past and driven them for decades blah blah etc etc. I sometimes still have trouble in this car for some reason starting off smoothly. I either under rev and get the chatter or over rev and slip the clutch too much from time to time. Need to do the clutch stop and CDV delete me thinks.

Agree with BIGW0RM about the F80 DCT. If this car had that option available it would be my choice.

Clutch stop on Amazon worked wonders for me. I removed two washers. You’ll have to shave the post down with a razor some to help get it in, and cut the tip off as the post length was too long. But it made a huge difference for me.

https://a.co/d/1bjIBVR

[Good 4 2 reasons]

Starting from a stop by only releasing the clutch (no gas input) is only to demonstrate that you stall the car when you let the clutch out too quickly. Most new drivers will add gas, hear the engine rev, and quickly release the clutch, stalling the car. Once you get a feel for the proper timing to let the clutch out, you should be introducing throttle at the same time while releasing the clutch. It's a delicate balance that takes practice.

The only time I tolerate some clutch chatter/judder is when I am reversing and move the car by releasing the clutch only. I do not need to move that quickly to introduce throttle.

First to second gear is going to be jerky, especially if your variables are different techniques each time you shift from 1-2.

The correct amount of clutch slip from 1-2 means clutching in (in first) at the same speed, letting the revs drop the suitable amount, and then releasing the clutch. Consistency in your variables will help you learn how to be smooth by changing a single element at a time.

[OldButSmooth]

The shifting from 1st to 2nd is truly a thing with the M2 (both F87 and G87). Generally the shift will be seamless, however from time to time it will catch you out and the shift will be shocker...perhaps we should put this down as a character trait with manual M2's.

[ajchoi]

Originally Posted by OldButSmooth

The shifting from 1st to 2nd is truly a thing with the M2 (both F87 and G87). Generally the shift will be seamless, however from time to time it will catch you out and the shift will be shocker...perhaps we should put this down as a character trait with manual M2's.

This 100%. I find if you can't give it more gas on the takeoff from 1st (say you're in traffic and person in front of you accelerates in a Nissan Versa) it makes the 1-2 harder to shift perfectly. If you can accelerate a bit more rapidly (generally faster than the car in front of you) it's much more smooth. Similar feel for me in parking lots or around my community at lower speed 1-2 shifts where you don't want to ride around in 1st at 4-5k rpm but are really only doing like 20-30mph or so.

This all said, I personally love that I have a 6MT M2. But I work from home and don't need to drive this car unless I feel like it. Got the car in Mid-August, went out of my way to put 1200 miles on it by end of October, and I have 1350 miles today haha

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by ajchoi

This 100%. I find if you can't give it more gas on the takeoff from 1st (say you're in traffic and person in front of you accelerates in a Nissan Versa) it makes the 1-2 harder to shift perfectly. If you can accelerate a bit more rapidly (generally faster than the car in front of you) it's much more smooth. Similar feel for me in parking lots or around my community at lower speed 1-2 shifts where you don't want to ride around in 1st at 4-5k rpm but are really only doing like 20-30mph or so.

This all said, I personally love that I have a 6MT M2. But I work from home and don't need to drive this car unless I feel like it. Got the car in Mid-August, went out of my way to put 1200 miles on it by end of October, and I have 1350 miles today haha

So I'm sticking with the stick.
I have an i4 M50 so if I don't want to shift, I'll take the EV. I also work from home so the M2 is completely a "fun car".

No chance in hell of me getting paddles. Now I just need that allocation to come through.

[ajchoi]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

So I'm sticking with the stick.
I have an i4 M50 so if I don't want to shift, I'll take the EV. I also work from home so the M2 is completely a "fun car".

No chance in hell of me getting paddles. Now I just need that allocation to come through.

Yep, that was my stance. If I needed a daily I'd feel different but since this isn't my daily I want to row my own gears, even if it's got some minor annoyances and isn't the fastest version of this car.

[gray_tabby]

Originally Posted by ajchoi

This 100%. I find if you can't give it more gas on the takeoff from 1st (say you're in traffic and person in front of you accelerates in a Nissan Versa) it makes the 1-2 harder to shift perfectly. If you can accelerate a bit more rapidly (generally faster than the car in front of you) it's much more smooth. Similar feel for me in parking lots or around my community at lower speed 1-2 shifts where you don't want to ride around in 1st at 4-5k rpm but are really only doing like 20-30mph or so.

This all said, I personally love that I have a 6MT M2. But I work from home and don't need to drive this car unless I feel like it. Got the car in Mid-August, went out of my way to put 1200 miles on it by end of October, and I have 1350 miles today haha

I think this is because the rev hang is more pronounced at lower rpm. When I am shifting at 3.5k+ it feels more smooth if shifting promptly of course. If I am driving at a more calm pace I just hold clutch a bit more / easing more slowly. I had non-sport cars with manual before and never even though about it it just all worked, but his car gives me really hard time. It feels great when it works though, the reward is so worth it.

[beren]

Practice. Give it gas in first for sure. I'm not sure when you are shifting in terms of RPM, but I've found that in first and second getting up there to 4-5K reduced the "jerk" quite a bit when shifting. That's being said I go with lower RPMs until the engine is up to temp.

But mostly this is practice. I've been driving manuals for 40 years and even changing from one car to another takes practice.

[NewToM]

Originally Posted by beren

But mostly this is practice. I've been driving manuals for 40 years and even changing from one car to another takes practice.

I’ve been driving a manual since I was 18 and I was so embarrassed when I did the drive in the M2 when picking it up with my CA. It was sooo jerky.

[DS_BMW]

Originally Posted by BIGW0RM

Well, I dumped my 3 week old 6MT today. I went back to paddles. The 6MT was fun. But I did one 2hr bumper to bumper drive down the 5 south from OC to San Diego and that just ruined it for me.

I had a gorgeous FPG with silver wheels. But I’m happy to be out of the manual and I’ll never do matte paint again. The fear of one scratch just made me so paranoid to enjoy how gorgeous it was. And if I was going to PPF it, I’d rather have a normal color and make it matte. That way I could have best of both worlds.

Anyhow, heres the new one. And old one side by side. New one isn’t as pretty, but I’m happier overall.

Nice, 3 weeks is pretty fast. Did you lose like 10k? Are they both 25MY?

[BIGW0RM]

Originally Posted by DS_BMW

Nice, 3 weeks is pretty fast. Did you lose like 10k? Are they both 25MY?

Both 25’s. Lost a little less than that. But yes I lost money as expected.

[ajchoi]

Originally Posted by gray_tabby

I think this is because the rev hang is more pronounced at lower rpm. When I am shifting at 3.5k+ it feels more smooth if shifting promptly of course. If I am driving at a more calm pace I just hold clutch a bit more / easing more slowly. I had non-sport cars with manual before and never even though about it it just all worked, but his car gives me really hard time. It feels great when it works though, the reward is so worth it.

Originally Posted by beren

Practice. Give it gas in first for sure. I'm not sure when you are shifting in terms of RPM, but I've found that in first and second getting up there to 4-5K reduced the "jerk" quite a bit when shifting. That's being said I go with lower RPMs until the engine is up to temp.

But mostly this is practice. I've been driving manuals for 40 years and even changing from one car to another takes practice.

Originally Posted by NewToM

I’ve been driving a manual since I was 18 and I was so embarrassed when I did the drive in the M2 when picking it up with my CA. It was sooo jerky.

Okay to respond to all of these at the same time, I did some experimenting over the weekend. I adjusted my seating position to be a tiny bit higher up, and then adjusted to be slightly further away from the clutch pedal. I'm finding low-RPM 1-2 shifts are MUCH smoother as a result. This is probably because this clutch has a fairly high up catch point so I think my clutch let-off timing was a bit weird when I was sitting closer to the pedals. Worked for me to instantly make my 1-2 low RPM shifts very smooth at least!

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by ajchoi

Okay to respond to all of these at the same time, I did some experimenting over the weekend. I adjusted my seating position to be a tiny bit higher up, and then adjusted to be slightly further away from the clutch pedal. I'm finding low-RPM 1-2 shifts are MUCH smoother as a result. This is probably because this clutch has a fairly high up catch point so I think my clutch let-off timing was a bit weird when I was sitting closer to the pedals. Worked for me to instantly make my 1-2 low RPM shifts very smooth at least!

Good for you.

When I switched from a 2001 Z28 to a 2002 Boxster I found I had to change my seating position to be *closer* to the steering wheel and specifically the clutch pedal. The Boxster clutch pedal engagement was higher than I was used to and I found sitting a bit closer I had better control of the pedal and engagement.

Same with my M2. I'm sit bit closer than what many would consider normal but being closer gives me much better control of the clutch.