[Nivarox]

I'm too just against a commonplace speed limits ,lowering speed limits itself just doesn't prevent from accidents from happening , but better driver training does .
Today ,we have better cars that stops much earlier than they did 30 years ago but speed limits are same , that's fudge .
Not to mention active safety features that's embedded into cars .

[HFW003]

[tranquility]

It's a valid question, but many ppl think they are the next Lewis Hamilton but actually are srs danger to fellow drivers. There are way too many yahoos out there and they should've had way better drivers Ed, in NA it's a joke.

I personally don't care about crazy top speeds, rather they focus on making better handling cars.

[Germanauto]

The communist part cracks me up.

Legitimate question, I've wondered the same thing. Obviously not complaining.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Nivarox

I'm too just against a commonplace speed limits ,lowering speed limits itself just doesn't prevent from accidents from happening , but better driver training does .
Today ,we have better cars that stops much earlier than they did 30 years ago but speed limits are same , that's fudge .
Not to mention active safety features that's embedded into cars .

Lower speeds give drivers more time to react, travel less distance while making the reaction, and reduce the amount of force occupants experience during a collision.

An increase in deaths always correlates with an increase in speed. It's just physics.

[ASAP]

Because there is a constant cat and mouse game played that increases tax revenue and give the local constable something to do... speed limits haven't been relevant since the 90s... thank worthless politicians for this.

If there was any relevance to any of this... you wouldn't be able to pull your driver's license out of a cereal box like you can here.

[zx10guy]

To expand on those saying better/more driver training, I'd go one step further and revamp the testing requirements needed to get a license. The bare minimum to pass to get your license in this country across many states is a total joke.

This is pretty accurate as to how much of a joke driver's licensing is in this country:

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Maynard

Back in the gloomy 80's they almost did this - at least capping them all at whatever would be 'legal plus a little'. They settled on limiting the speedos to only display up to 85mph. Back then, cars were craptastic enough that 85 was actually pushing it in most of them.

Well really, it was a Federal law, the 1974 Emergency Highway Energy Conservation Act regarding fuel consumption, not regulating vehicle maximum speed; the national speed limit was set at 55 MPH. In 1979 a new odometer standard limited the maximum speed reading of a speedometer to 85 MPH with emphasis on the 55 MPH national speed limit, which was in effect for just 3 years into 1982. There was never any impetus by the Feds to mechanically govern a vehicle's maximum speed limit.

Not sure if you were alive in the 1980's but most cars were easily capable of safely exceeding 85 MPH. LOL.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Lower speeds give drivers more time to react, travel less distance while making the reaction, and reduce the amount of force occupants experience during a collision.

An increase in deaths always correlates with an increase in speed. It's just physics.

Speed limits on roads are mostly based on sightlines and number of ingress/egress points (i.e. intersections); i.e. physics.

Speed limits are not based on suspension capability and tire grip (as we all like to think)... Still physics though

[Buug959]

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

To expand on those saying better/more driver training, I'd go one step further and revamp the testing requirements needed to get a license. The bare minimum to pass to get your license in this country across many states is a total joke.

This is pretty accurate as to how much of a joke driver's licensing is in this country:

Crazy idea... maybe we teach vehicle placement in traffic? Further, how to read traffic, observe and profile vehicles, for a driver achieve a level of ability to predict other driver's actions in advance. Critical to learn as a motorcyclist.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Nivarox

I'm too just against a commonplace speed limits ,lowering speed limits itself just doesn't prevent from accidents from happening , but better driver training does .
Today ,we have better cars that stops much earlier than they did 30 years ago but speed limits are same , that's fudge .
Not to mention active safety features that's embedded into cars .

In the US, the speed limit in most US cities and towns has been reduced to 25 MPH. This change occurred a few years ago after numerous studies show that pedestrians are 25% less likely to sustain a fatal injury when hit by a car.

[Maynard]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Well really, it was a Federal law, the 1974 Emergency Highway Energy Conservation Act regarding fuel consumption, not regulating vehicle maximum speed; the national speed limit was set at 55 MPH. In 1979 a new odometer standard limited the maximum speed reading of a speedometer to 85 MPH with emphasis on the 55 MPH national speed limit, which was in effect for just 3 years into 1982. There was never any impetus by the Feds to mechanically govern a vehicle's maximum speed limit.

Not sure if you were alive in the 1980's but most cars were easily capable of safely exceeding 85 MPH. LOL.

There were actually several groups that were actively lobbying to get some kind of governors added, but they were pushed back by the big 3. I've heard that there were also some fortuitous lawsuits against earlier 'safety' improvements tht heped in this (i.e. lawsuits over ignition interlocks for seatbelt use). And I was indeed quite alive in the 80's, and while some cars were capable of exceeding 85, few could call it easy, and most really left you with a keen awareness that you were going really fast. IIRC, supercar speeds at that point were not yet hitting 200, most were happy with a solid 130+

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

In the US, the speed limit in most US cities and towns has been reduced to 25 MPH. This change occurred a few years ago after numerous studies show that pedestrians are 25% less likely to sustain a fatal injury when hit by a car.

I wonder how many of those studies really dug into all factors of pedestrian collisions. The elephant in the room is how many of them were a result of one or both parties (driver and pedestrian) having their noses buried into their cell phones. This is also not to say there weren't other distractions which contributed to the collision outside of just speeding.

[ASAP]

It's awfully interesting that everyone likes to blame speed and speed limits while totally disregarding distractions which are attributable to probably 90% of accidents.

Even the car manufacturers don't seem to care as it is proven in studies that any sort of touch screen and less physical buttons in a car directly attributes to less attention being paid.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Maynard

There were actually several groups that were actively lobbying to get some kind of governors added, but they were pushed back by the big 3. I've heard that there were also some fortuitous lawsuits against earlier 'safety' improvements tht heped in this (i.e. lawsuits over ignition interlocks for seatbelt use). And I was indeed quite alive in the 80's, and while some cars were capable of exceeding 85, few could call it easy, and most really left you with a keen awareness that you were going really fast. IIRC, supercar speeds at that point were not yet hitting 200, most were happy with a solid 130+

Being an old codger and car enthusiast since the age of 6, and driving since 1978, and living in the burbs of Washington DC, also my father was always very politically active and we had numerous political discussions about automobiles based on reading the Washington Post and Washington Star (I was a Star newspaper delivery boy all through high school, so I read the paper almost every day); his office was even on K Street, which is the center of the DC Lobbyist industry even to this day. I attended high school in the District. And back in the day I read almost every car magazine every month and was a member of the educational chapter of SAE in college during the 1980's. You really can't live around the Nation's Capital and not be politically conscious because it is the industry of the geographic area. All that said, I do not have any recollection of lobbyist groups calling for mechanical speed governors for private passenger cars. If there was, it wasn't a mainstream effort back in the day. A quick internet search didn't reveal anything. Maybe Ralph Nadar was a advocate of speed governors, but he's Ralph Nadar, who has a shit fit every time a car crashes... So, I'll not rule it out, but the impetus of controlling speed limits in the US as I remember it, was centered on traffic regulations and speedometer design regulations, which I referenced previously.

Most car models in the 1970's and certainly in the 1980's easily handled 85 MPH and far higher speed limits. My 1982 Ford Escort (with said 85 MPH speedometer - lol) easily buried the needle over 85.

I just don't remember lobbyists calling for mechanical speed governors in the 1980's or 1970's; I don't think I'd have missed something on that subject. Please don't ask for an internet research paper on the subject. I don't have the time today; I need to replace the battery in the E90.

[RickFLM4]

Imagine if cars were electronically capped at the speed limit and someone decided to go 5-10 MPH below the speed limit in the left lane. Violent crime would increase. The ability to go faster than the speed limit reduces violent crime.

[premier3is]

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

We should have an autobahn here in the states, but also have better driver training. I think we should have different plates that indicate driving skill. If you are a better driver, you can go faster.

Our drivers here wouldn't be able to handle an Autobahn lol. I can just imagine it, some slow Prius driver planted going 65 in the far left lane. Would just defeat the purpose lol.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

I wonder how many of those studies really dug into all factors of pedestrian collisions. The elephant in the room is how many of them were a result of one or both parties (driver and pedestrian) having their noses buried into their cell phones. This is also not to say there weren't other distractions which contributed to the collision outside of just speeding.

So having been a courier in Washington DC back in the 1980's and a District school student in the 1970's (since we're being so historic on the thread today ) it was my experience that pedestrians yielded to motor vehicles and crossed at intersections in crosswalks when it was "their turn to go". My eyes were opened on a trip to California to help my parents drive back from LA in 1985; in 1984, my father took a financial analyst consultant job for a big bank and was in LA for a year.

Anyway, long story short, I almost ran over a Californian on Ventura Blvd. Dad and I were chatting about the trip home plan when a pedestrian just stepped out in front of the car. A quick WTF and lock of the Old's Diesel 98 Regency's brake system, no blood was spilled nor bones fractured. The look on the Californian's face was priceless. My dad quipped, "Oh yeah, out here, you have to yield to pedestrians when they are at the crosswalk." [historical note: IIRC Cali had recently passed the "yield to pedestrian's" law somewhere around 1985.] I said, "Does anyone understand Physics out here?", Dad laughed.

The problem was, even as a well trained city driver and veteran DC pedestrian as a high-schooler, I understood people cross in crosswalks at intersections when the crosswalk lights and traffic lights dictate so. The event on Ventura Blvd was because THE CROSSWALK WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BLOCK. Again, WTF. Back in the day, who from the East Coast expects a person just to walk out in front of a car... mid-block.

So I typed all that because I really think the pedestrian-to-auto incursion rate increase began more with traffic laws migrated from California that call for cars to yield to pedestrians in crosswalks regardless of traffic conditions and crosswalk location. Adding cell phones to the mix just makes it worse; pedestrians think they have the right-of-way because the laws say so. Being a student of Physics, one understands that humans stop easier than 4,000-pound automobiles; and the equation of F=MA, ALWAYS is in the favor of the automobile and not the pedestrian. When I am a pedestrian (or riding) I follow the laws of Physics, not dumbass Politicians. Mass; learn it, love it, live it.

Now to the E90's battery...

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

.... Maybe Ralph Nadar was a advocate of speed governors, but he's Ralph Nadar,....

I just don't remember lobbyists calling for mechanical speed governors in the 1980's or 1970's; I don't think I'd have missed something on that subject....

Limiting cars to 85mph was definitely in the conversation. I don't know who, when, where, but I remember being against it!
It might have been Ralph, or maybe the insurance companies, which were flexing their muscles in the '70s, not liking 455ci in a car with drum brakes....

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Imagine if cars were electronically capped at the speed limit and someone decided to go 5-10 MPH below the speed limit in the left lane. Violent crime would increase. The ability to go faster than the speed limit reduces violent crime.

That's a key example of what's lacking in drivers ed: it's the PASSING lane, not the 'fast' lane. Ppl are only supposed to use that to pass, and then move back over to the appropriate right lane. No one is supposed to hang around there (unless it's a designated diamond/high occupancy/EV+other special vehicles lane, whatever term is used). Another key thing not emphasized in drivers ed is that drivers are all supposed to stay on the right lane, and then move to the next left lane to pass, and then move back to the right when done, w each subsequent left lane moving faster than the next (this is also supposed to be for city roads, where practical).

If everyone abided by this efficient sys, there would be less crazy/selfish drivers passing on the right or even using the shoulder because they think they are more important than everyone else.

[2000cs]

There were debates about this in the 80s and one argument I recall is limiting top speed could limit an emergency maneuver where adding speed is the correct approach. Another is that if you’re being pursued by bad guys (executive kidnapping was a thing then), you need to be able to outrun them (and out drive them).

Driven speeds are a function of perceived risk, which incorporates road design (how wide are the lanes, are there medians, frequent stops/lights/crosswalks, lots of pedestrian/bicycle traffic, sidewalks, traffic/congestion, and of course how large the fines are times the probability of getting to pay one (which increases with speed cameras). Vehicle design and especially brakes have greatly increased the design speed of all roads because drivers perceive they can go faster and still stop in time.

Road congestion has increased with more vehicles (and larger, harder to see around), more pedestrians in many cities, and more bicycles (and perhaps motorcycles). So there are legitimate safety reasons to consider lower limits on some roads; except that they don’t work because of the perceived design speed.

To lower speeds, the road’s design speed needs to be changed. I’m working on this in my town right now, and learning a lot about traffic design and engineering as I get into this. (We’re working on improving safety for drivers, walkers and bicyclists, not necessarily lowering speeds).

I suspect there would be significant unintended consequences of limiting the top speed of vehicles. Where would vehicle engineering go? Faster acceleration? Sharper handling? Both of those could significantly contribute to accidents, more than high speed alone would.

Its a very complex set of topics; but I don’t see any value in top speed limitations on the vehicles. Practically, higher speed capability is so expensive (vehicle, fuel and tires that can handle it), that it really isn’t a problem, IMO. Add in the possibility of jail time for high speed driving, and it becomes a track feature, and for those special roads where it is allowed, but nothing to get too concerned about on the street.