[IanH]

Dude what the fk are you talking about. There is literally a carb certified jb4. They sell it in California, and they are based in california.

50 STATES EMISSIONS LEGAL right below the buy button.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by IanH

Dude what the fk are you talking about. There is literally a carb certified jb4. They sell it in California, and they are based in california.

50 STATES EMISSIONS LEGAL right below the buy button.

I'm not sure what you are looking at but for S58 here is the page.

The link is here
https://burgertuning.com/collections...x-bmw-m2-m3-m4

There is a legal version that is CARB compliant for the B58, but the G87 M2 is S58.

I know what I'm talking about.
I've been driving and tuning BMWs for 35 years.

So you, in fact do not know what you are talking about about with regards to the G87 M2.

The early F87 was B58, different car, different engine. This is the G87 forum.

[IanH]

Do you think there is any difference between the carb certified jb4 and the non carb certified one, in function?

Hint: no

All jb4 units are basically identical internal to the unit with different wiring harnesses attached.

The only reason there isn't a carb certified s58 one is that it hasn't completed the certification process yet.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by IanH

Do you think there is any difference between the carb certified jb4 and the non carb certified one, in function?

Hint: no

All jb4 units are basically identical internal to the unit with different wiring harnesses attached.

The only reason there isn't a carb certified s58 one is that it hasn't completed the certification process yet.

The limits on sensor signal adaptation will be different; that is the firmware in the device.

The parameter adjustments will be limited.
The overall map adjustments will be limited.

So they will have gone through the process to see where emissions falls off the cliff.

So while the hardware may not be significantly different the firmware and adaptations will be.

So until they go through the CARB process and adjust and limit adaptations such that they don't run afoul of emissions the product is not legal for sale in California.

I'm not sure what your goal is here other than to argue.

[IanH]

The only difference between a CARB jb4 and a non carb is that the firmware cannot be flashed. It functions exactly the same and you are repeatedly talking out of your ass and making things up.

There's at least 3 completely assumed false statements in the above post.

Carb is just a certification process that costs the mfg time and money. They aren't changing what the product does to "pass carb"

So keep making things up because you have 2 electrical engineering degrees, but they are only true in your head.

[mrdudley]

Originally Posted by IanH

Carb is just a certification process that costs the mfg time and money. They aren't changing what the product does to "pass carb" .

I’m not sure this is true. First, to pass CARB, a manufacturer has to show the product does not increase emissions. The stock JB4 likely does increase emissions in some of the maps or in the custom map.

Based on the separate install guide for CARB approved version, it does indeed have significantly different maps (screenshots and link below). Almost certainly this was done to achieve (aka “pass”) CARB certification.

And they note:

Note that only the settings above can be adjusted on the JB4_B58 (CARB Approved Model) and the ability to update firmware or change additional settings have been physically blocked from the unit.

I will note though that I don’t own one. I’ve just window shopped and decided against it. If somebody owns a CARB version they can confirm.


CARB install

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by mrdudley

I’m not sure this is true. First, to pass CARB, a manufacturer has to show the product does not increase emissions. The stock JB4 likely does increase emissions in some of the maps or in the custom map.

Based on the separate install guide for CARB approved version, it does indeed have significantly different maps (screenshots and link below). Almost certainly this was done to achieve (aka “pass”) CARB certification.

And they note:

Note that only the settings above can be adjusted on the JB4_B58 (CARB Approved Model) and the ability to update firmware or change additional settings have been physically blocked from the unit.

I will note though that I don’t own one. I’ve just window shopped and decided against it. If somebody owns a CARB version they can confirm.


CARB install

Thank you.

You reiterated what I said and brought receipts.
A CARB certified JB4 will have fixed mapping and limited parameter adjustments and no map outside the approved maps will be available. This will be to make sure that emission compliance is adhered to.

[IanH]

Fair play gents. I mean, Mrdudley actually researched and found the correct information instead of just making things up but let's be charitable.

But you still can't say that the EPA is going to come after jb4's I think it's very clear that it's entirely possible for the product to be compliant and the laws governing federal emissions standards are not nearly as potent as California's (yet)

[LateBrake8]

Now kiss.

I'm sad though. More hoops to jump through and (probably) less aftermarket support by the day.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by LateBrake8

Now kiss.

I'm sad though. More hoops to jump through and (probably) less aftermarket support by the day.

Those of use that have been using flashes (Cobb) know that this day was coming.

Cobb got slammed and forced to provide compliance to CARB to continue to sell access points.

My N54 was using a compliant map and had certification and I had no issues with testing.

They day they started checking ECU firmware checksums, etc. we were toast.

Soore hoops, but it justeans that tuners have to be compliant with the laws. It's not that they can't tune; they just have to do it within the legal framework.

I won't worry about tuning my G87. There really isn't any point. The car is plenty fast and I'm not worried about being beat at a stop light. There are plenty car that can blow the doors off in a drag race. The car I have sitting in my driveway blows the doors off an M2 in the 1/4 mile. That being said, it's a horrible track car.

But for either one, I run out of legal road long before I run out of car.

[VETTEPRO]

Originally Posted by 97supratt

Not possible. Unless you keep the cats plus all your original intake parts and pay a hefty fee to be compliant.

Not really true. I had CARB come into my shop a few years ago. They had guns on, but were very pleasant. They gave me an ultimatum. Either get my supercharger systems to be compliant and get an EO number or cease and desist.
I went through the whole process, which I admittedly dragged out, and got my EO number. You know what the total amount of money the State of California charged me? Absolutely zero. I kept waiting for a big bill that never came. It really is, or at least was, about the emissions, not the money.
The only costs were related to my time to get things right, (mostly the tuning) fees paid to the private lab that did the actual testing, and related expenses.
My systems have completely different intake systems that CARB approved.
It's been very good for my business.

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by matty_f

I know this won’t be a popular opinion, but I see a silver lining here if it forces tuners to get CARB compliance.

This..Ford has been doing this for awhile now with their Ford Performance Power Kits. Dinans Piggy Back module is going through testing according to them. I wish BMW Performance would do this.

[M2PDX]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

I'm not sure what you are looking at but for S58 here is the page.

The link is here
https://burgertuning.com/collections...x-bmw-m2-m3-m4

There is a legal version that is CARB compliant for the B58, but the G87 M2 is S58.

I know what I'm talking about.
I've been driving and tuning BMWs for 35 years.

So you, in fact do not know what you are talking about about with regards to the G87 M2.

The early F87 was B58, different car, different engine. This is the G87 forum.

The early F87 2017-2018 M2 had the N55 engine.