[XutvJet]

Porsche pricing is just dumb. I also don't understand the purpose of cars like this. No one can use it on the street and no one takes these cars to the track. They're just all about flexing wallets at Cars and Coffee and talking about how rare the car is and the owner's special options. These 911s are MASSIVE as well.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Porsche pricing is just dumb. I also don't understand the purpose of cars like this. No one can use it on the street and no one takes these cars to the track. They're just all about flexing wallets at Cars and Coffee and talking about how rare the car is and the owner's special options. These 911s are MASSIVE as well.

Have you driven a GT3? You could easily drive it every day on the street if you wanted to. It’s more harsh than a base/GTS/turbo but it’s not intolerable. It’s one of the most fun street cars I’ve ever owned.

[ash_schwin]

Agreed with all the points made on this thread about the pricing. I would also be one of those people that would absolutely get a GT3 Touring with the new carbon buckets and rear seats if I was in the financial position to do so. To me, the 992 GT3 with a manual transmission is the holy grail of what I look for in a 'forever car'.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Porsche pricing is just dumb. I also don't understand the purpose of cars like this. No one can use it on the street and no one takes these cars to the track. They're just all about flexing wallets at Cars and Coffee and talking about how rare the car is and the owner's special options. These 911s are MASSIVE as well.

I know people that race GT3s in AutoX (and do terrific in em).

Just because you can't, doesn't mean other people can't too.

Wildly expensive, yes...if you want to go have fun tracking a car, you don't need one of these. But that doesn't mean that people don't.

[Guvna]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Porsche pricing is just dumb. I also don't understand the purpose of cars like this. No one can use it on the street and no one takes these cars to the track. They're just all about flexing wallets at Cars and Coffee and talking about how rare the car is and the owner's special options. These 911s are MASSIVE as well.

I see just as many 911s as Corvettes, and associate them similarly.

[pikkagtr]

Ah the gate keeping continues
The folks with too much money to burn but aren't actually car guys buy these and flex at cars and coffee
Talked a young man last Sunday with a very nice 718 GT4RS and gave him compliments
Proceeded to as him how it feels bouncing off the limiter
He explains he's taking it to the dealer on Monday as there's a problem with his transmission, as it won't allow him to red line
The poor sap hasn't ever taken out of comfort mode and has no idea what manual mode is or does
Worst part is it was daddy's money, he just picked the bright green one cuz it looked cool
These are the Porsche target audience sadly

[beats]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Porsche pricing is just dumb. I also don't understand the purpose of cars like this. No one can use it on the street and no one takes these cars to the track. They're just all about flexing wallets at Cars and Coffee and talking about how rare the car is and the owner's special options. These 911s are MASSIVE as well.

At the track events I go to the GT3 is likely the single most common model car present (or 2nd perhaps to M2/M4). Curious what clubs are you going to the track with that you don't see any GT3's?

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

Ah the gate keeping continues
The folks with too much money to burn but aren't actually car guys buy these and flex at cars and coffee
Talked a young man last Sunday with a very nice 718 GT4RS and gave him compliments
Proceeded to as him how it feels bouncing off the limiter
He explains he's taking it to the dealer on Monday as there's a problem with his transmission, as it won't allow him to red line
The poor sap hasn't ever taken out of comfort mode and has no idea what manual mode is or does
Worst part is it was daddy's money, he just picked the bright green one cuz it looked cool
These are the Porsche target audience sadly

This sounds like a story that never happened

[Alfisti]

They are still popular cars with track rats, I was at a Karting event at Mosport a few weeks ago and it was Porsche day on the main circuit and a solid 40 guys were pounding around all day with no shortage of modern GT3.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by RM7

I know people that race GT3s in AutoX (and do terrific in em).

Just because you can't, doesn't mean other people can't too.

Wildly expensive, yes...if you want to go have fun tracking a car, you don't need one of these. But that doesn't mean that people don't.

Auto crossing is hardly racing. I've driven my cars harder on public mountain roads (and been totally legal) than some of these autocross courses. But that's why people like autocross, you can say you're racing your Porsche but not actually do anything.

I will caveat that I am well aware not all autocross events are the same. Some are held on tracks and they just add some comes to straight sections. But onesase of comes in a parking lot are largely snoozefests to me.

That said, I feel like the vast majority of all of these special track edition cars are sold to speculators, never see the track, and aren't sold to car guys, they're sold to "car guys". The kind of guy would wouldn't know where to find their oil filter and thinks torx and torques are the same thing. Corvette, 911, Camaro, mustang, Ferrari, whatever, the brand doesn't really matter. They're all rich old guys or trust fund kids buying to brag.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Auto crossing is hardly racing. I've driven my cars harder on public mountain roads (and been totally legal) than some of these autocross courses. But that's why people like autocross, you can say you're racing your Porsche but not actually do anything.

I will caveat that I am well aware not all autocross events are the same. Some are held on tracks and they just add some comes to straight sections. But onesase of comes in a parking lot are largely snoozefests to me.

That said, I feel like the vast majority of all of these special track edition cars are sold to speculators, never see the track, and aren't sold to car guys, they're sold to "car guys". The kind of guy would wouldn't know where to find their oil filter and thinks torx and torques are the same thing. Corvette, 911, Camaro, mustang, Ferrari, whatever, the brand doesn't really matter. They're all rich old guys or trust fund kids buying to brag.

Those who can’t think everyone else can’t too.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Auto crossing is hardly racing. I've driven my cars harder on public mountain roads (and been totally legal) than some of these autocross courses. But that's why people like autocross, you can say you're racing your Porsche but not actually do anything.

I will caveat that I am well aware not all autocross events are the same. Some are held on tracks and they just add some comes to straight sections. But onesase of comes in a parking lot are largely snoozefests to me.

That said, I feel like the vast majority of all of these special track edition cars are sold to speculators, never see the track, and aren't sold to car guys, they're sold to "car guys". The kind of guy would wouldn't know where to find their oil filter and thinks torx and torques are the same thing. Corvette, 911, Camaro, mustang, Ferrari, whatever, the brand doesn't really matter. They're all rich old guys or trust fund kids buying to brag.

Thank you. You put it in much better words than myself.

Yes, there are people that "track" their GT3s and such, but very few are truly racing them. They're taking them out and driving them 6/10 on a track during some expensive track day event and thinking they're really pushing the car. Auto-x is fun as hell and I'm a huge fan, but I don't really consider that track driving. You're usually under ~70mph and aren't really testing the full limits of a car, especially a GT3.

The GT3 has become a different car between now and the 997 and earlier days. The prices have increased dramatically. When accounting for inflation, a 997 GT3 was ~$165K in todays money. The GT3 of that gen is primarily the one most of us see at tracks or they are modded non-GT3 cars that were totaled and then done up to look like GT3s. 991 and especially the 997 and earlier GT3s had much more focus on track duty, lightness, less is more, etc. The 991.2 and later GT3s became a different type of car in terms of options, content, weight, PRICE, and most aren't seeing track duty. They're too damn expensive and valuable in every aspect. Sure, there are some very wealthy people and teams racing them, but to think most are doing that is hilarious.

Porsche has lost it's way and is increasingly focused on it's vast amount of halo and specialty sportscar models that now are squarely aimed at those with deep pockets willing to spend astronomical prices for bedazzled 991. It's all about flex and ego for most buyers.

[pbonsalb]

About 5 years ago, I ran into a guy at a BMW track event. He had a GT3RS and said it cost him about $2k in tires every weekend or every other weekend at the track. He had the money and was using the car for its intended purpose.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

Have you driven a GT3? You could easily drive it every day on the street if you wanted to. It’s more harsh than a base/GTS/turbo but it’s not intolerable. It’s one of the most fun street cars I’ve ever owned.

I did drive a 991.2 GT3 last year and then have the owner push it pretty hard on a B-road. Great driving car. Rides better than my 2011 Cayman Base too. However, like most high powered car, you can't have much fun on street, especially a GT3, which requires a lot of revs (and noise) to get into the full power. I didn't find it very fun on the street from an acceleration stand point because you can't use much of the rpm range because you'll be going so fast and creating so much attention from that amazing flat 6.

I will say my 987 felt a bit more connected/raw in terms of steering, braking, throttle control feel, and NVH. The GT3 felt really refined (more like my M235) and made me wonder how diluted a standard 991+ 911 might feel. I imagine it would feel pretty water-downed compared to the GT3.

I'm clearly in a different camp than most of you. I like a quick and fast car, but one that I can come close to exploring the limits on a B-road, use all the rpms of the motor in many of the gears, etc. all the while being a fun track car if I wanted to do that. If I were 15-20 years younger (50 now), I'd probably be in your camp as I was all about max power and speed back then.

I do commend Porsche with sticking to NA, high revving motors. Definitely more tractable power delivery than a heavy hitting turbo which can sneak up on you at the least opportune time.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

About 5 years ago, I ran into a guy at a BMW track event. He had a GT3RS and said it cost him about $2k in tires every weekend or every other weekend at the track. He had the money and was using the car for its intended purpose.

God bless owners like that and don't keep their cars in a garage except 80 degree Saturday mornings for Cars and Coffee.

When I see a sportscar or super car that has some dirty panels, rock chipped front end, and filthy wheels, all I think is Magnus Walker's saying "Smiles per mile".

[pbonsalb]

There are also a lot of people who leave their newer, nicer car in the garage and drive a beater most of the time. I buy cars to drive, not preserve for the next owner. I am not in the GT3 league, though I nearly bought a used 991.2 Turbo several years ago. Prices have gone way up since then so I may have missed my opportunity.

[BlkGS]

The problem with these "track focused" cars is at the price points they go for, you can be a gentleman driver. You know what's cooler than showing up to a PCA event or private track rental on a GT3RS? Actually racing as part of a real team where you pay to be part of it. You can say "I want to do the start" or "I want to cross the checkered flags" and the team says "sure no problem". Then you go back to your RV or party tent and enjoy the rest of the race in air conditioned luxury.

When i was deep into racing I met a guy who did that. He was extra smart, he used these races as advertising for his company and so he wrote off the whole thing (and I think the costs of being a gentleman driver too) as a business expense and brought clients and the like to his races.

He had owned a 997 GT3RS but said it wasn't a great road car. He said he would usually only drive it to shows and stuff, and would either drive his Cayenne Turbo or 911 Turbo instead.

Anyways, when I was racing I decided if I ever just got "F U" money, that's what I would do. You buy these special.porsches as investments and then spend your racing money on being a real racing driver.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

There are also a lot of people who leave their newer, nicer car in the garage and drive a beater most of the time. I buy cars to drive, not preserve for the next owner. I am not in the GT3 league, though I nearly bought a used 991.2 Turbo several years ago. Prices have gone way up since then so I may have missed my opportunity.

991.2 turbo prices have gone way down since the Covid mania, check again you might be surprised.

[FC4]

It's wild how the perception some have about owners of certain cars varies. There will always be people with more money than enthusiasm for cars who will buy flashy cars. That's a pretty tired point and nothing new.

Go to any private day at Laguna or Sonoma and it's >75% GT3s. Most of the cars at or out on Thermal at any given time are GT3s or Cup cars. If you think these cars are just bought to parade around on Sunday, it shows you lack exposure to the circles which prove otherwise.

Besides, no one buys a Porsche to flex. Maybe in Scottsdale or Tampa or wherever they still wear Ed Hardy shirts. But Porsches aren't seen as fancy cars to many. A GT3RS on the street is a bit... gauche.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

The problem with these "track focused" cars is at the price points they go for, you can be a gentleman driver. You know what's cooler than showing up to a PCA event or private track rental on a GT3RS? Actually racing as part of a real team where you pay to be part of it.

lolwut?

I've done tons of PCA events. It's all about what the owner wants to do. By your logic, what would be even "cooler" would be to design the entire car and then do all the manufacturing of it, then start a race team, then do all the maintenance on it, and then...and then...and then.

Why can't people freaking understand that not everyone wants to like what they like? We should be able to discuss those differences here...but the way you put it is like my dad "why can't people do and like the things that I like?".

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by FC4

It's wild how the perception some have about owners of certain cars varies. There will always be people with more money than enthusiasm for cars who will buy flashy cars. That's a pretty tired point and nothing new.

Go to any private day at Laguna or Sonoma and it's >75% GT3s. Most of the cars at or out on Thermal at any given time are GT3s or Cup cars. If you think these cars are just bought to parade around on Sunday, it shows you lack exposure to the circles which prove otherwise.

Besides, no one buys a Porsche to flex. Maybe in Scottsdale or Tampa or wherever they still wear Ed Hardy shirts. But Porsches aren't seen as fancy cars to many. A GT3RS on the street is a bit... gauche.

Most people can’t tell the difference between a base 996 and a 992 GT3RS, all 911’s are the same to 90% of the people out there

[BlkGS]

Nah, Porsches are common in Tampa too. It all depends on your income bracket. Of you're making 10 million a year, a Porsche isn't a flex. But if your make 60k a year a Camaro is a flex.

I think it's the California crowd that really are into Porsches and stuff. They're desperate to cling to relevance despite the fact that everyone thinks they're losers