[DDD31]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

What kind of dbag sells a $2 million gift?

I'm sure Mr. Horacio cares a lot about your opinion of him. He'll probably go cry into some pillows stuffed with $100 bills. So sad.

$100 bills piscchhhhh, that's for ordinary peasants. A man of his taste and stature would have nothing less than a pillow stuffed with endangered panda bear fur and would have his peons cry for him.

[tranquility]

Viffer would be better advised to direct his hate towards Hennessey (sp?). Now that's a freaking HACK, he actually has delusions that it's totally his car.

[yousefnjr]

To be fair, every company (even those that "build their own engines") rely on other companies to do what they do. Do you really think Mercedes or Ferrari manufactures all of their own parts?

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

To be fair, every company (even those that "build their own engines") rely on other companies to do what they do. Do you really think Mercedes or Ferrari manufactures all of their own parts?

True, but to be fair as as well, the engine is up there w/ the design of the car as to importance, so Viffer has a somewhat valid pt. I disagree w/ his OTT hatred though lol.

[NickyC]

How anybody can hate on Pagani is beyond me. Their cars are just jaw dropping.

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by NickyC

How anybody can hate on Pagani is beyond me. Their cars are just jaw dropping.

Some people enjoy provoking shIt. I respect people's opinion but he was off on every angle.

[supra93]

We take certain things for granted. Water is wet, fire is hot, and convertibles are heavier than the coupes on which they're based. There's just too much extra chassis reinforcement, on top of whatever removable or folding roof mechanism is fitted... right?

Well, Pagani is here to tell us otherwise. “From the beginning we set ourselves some pretty ambitious targets,” said Horacio Pagani in the statement accompanying this latest teaser image of the forthcoming Huayra Roadster. “The first, from a technical point of view, was to make a roadster that would be lighter than the coupé, which was already the lightest hypercar on sale at the time.”

How's that now? We don't know, but suffice it to say that Horacio and company must have pulled some innovative tricks out of their carbon-fiber helmet for this one. And most of those tricks, we figure, were first applied to the hardcore Huayra BC (instead of the original model) on which the roadster is based.

The image otherwise gives us little to go on, camouflaged and dark as it is. What we can make out, though, is the redesigned rear deck, which appears to encompass a set of flying buttresses extending from the rear of the passenger compartment towards the rear, in between those swooping fender haunches.

With a bit more emerging each week, we can expect to find out a bit more next Tuesday as the roadster's debut at the 2017 Geneva Motor Show approaches a little more than a month from now.

http://www.carscoops.com/2017/01/pag...tually-be.html

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Nivarox

Unless Pagani manufacturers its own engine not outsourcing from a renowned German Manufacturer ,I never take them as a serious car manufacturer such as Lamborghini,Ferrari ,Porsche and other manufacturers . They're just fancy exotic cars with stealth high end composite materials .
My take on Pagani is like a watch producer, not manufacturer, who relies on ETA , Sellita Movements far away from in house movement to sell them public with high end prices

Thank you for the support. The watch analogy is a good one.

dgoldenz : a 'douchebag' who would use that $2 million for much more constructive and fulfilling vehicular acquisitions. Good enough?

tranquility : Right there with you (and thanks for the valid point callout). John Hennessey is a shyster of the highest order. Pagani isn't in that category. I simply don't subscribe to Horacio's attitude, megalomania (I wonder if any of you have heard the stories about how he treats his employees. I have, second hand, from Italian luxury merchants such as jewelers and metal fabricators.) and hyperelitism.

48Laws and NickyC : Believe what you want. I never said the cars weren't impressive in certain ways. I simply feel that Paganis exist solely to demonstrate the superiority of a holier-than-thou engineer who considers himself -- and all but presents himself as, publicly and privately -- the second coming of Leonardo da Vinci. I don't want to own anything made by a man like that.

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by Nivarox

Unless Pagani manufacturers its own engine not outsourcing from a renowned German Manufacturer ,I never take them as a serious car manufacturer such as Lamborghini,Ferrari ,Porsche and other manufacturers . They're just fancy exotic cars with stealth high end composite materials .
My take on Pagani is like a watch producer, not manufacturer, who relies on ETA , Sellita Movements far away from in house movement to sell them public with high end prices

Pagani was never a car manufacturer per se. The term "manufacturer" implies a larger scaled operation which seems to be the antithesis of Horacio's vision. He constructs bespoke automobiles by hand. The operation is slow, deliberate and personal. The much respected power plant supplied by AMG is a testament to the faith and respect they have for the guy and his process. The watch anology is erroneously stated because you have no original Pagani engine to reference. The partnership with AMG existed from its inception which is in fact "in house". The only similarities with your faulty anology is the idea of shipping parts from a-to B and and that's utterly juvenile and a very simplistic perspective on what actually takes place. As if R/D doesn't take place like with any other hyper car.

[991GT3]

These arguments are all semantics. Pagani is a low scale high end car manufacturer. The fact that they outsource major components is irrelevant.
Are Dodge and Nissan pickups that use Cummins diesel engines real productions vehicles?

[supra93]

http://www.carscoops.com/2017/02/thi...adster-in.html

[NickyC]

As Dr. Jones says, "It belongs in a Museum".

[KingOfJericho]

Hate the blue stitching and I'm not a fan of the gills they added to the engine cover but the car is a flippin' work of art.

[AW335TT]

.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Hate the blue stitching and I'm not a fan of the gills they added to the engine cover but the car is a flippin' work of art.

Couldn't agree more about the gills, they look so out of place on the car for some reason.

[FC4]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

I've always considered -- and still consider -- any Pagani to be the most obscene, overwrought, self-important, contrived, egotistical vehicle ever cleared to operate on public roads. Even above the Veyron -- in fact, far and away more than the Veyron. That Pagani uses someone else's motor to power its cars only reinforces that feeling in me, because it's not a true supercar on the level of a Bugatti, Koenigsegg, Ferrari, Porsche, etc.

There's no denying the attention to detail, the highest-of-the-high-quality parts, and the performance. But it's an ultrabaked kit car. And, to my aesthetic, it's one of the ugliest. The snobbery involved in making them only makes them uglier -- and that I deal with holier-than-thou artsy fashion types every day and am saying this should speak volumes about my attitude toward Horatio and his cars. (At least Brunello Cucinelli, for instance, is a nice guy. Horacio's been an elitist ass in every place and situation I've seen him in).

YMMV. If I were gifted one of these, I'd sell it immediately.

You drive a 228i.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by FC4

You drive a 228i.

But I don't drive a Corolla. Theoreticals are theoreticals, man.

Congrats on a weak attempt to make this personal.

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

But I don't drive a Corolla. Theoreticals are theoreticals, man.

Congrats on a weak attempt to make this personal.

No...I believe what you spend your money on and what you drive is indicative of your taste. His quip was accurate. I mean...you see flaws in a flawless Hyper-car that's handbuilt by less than 10 people. Lol. At least a Corolla represents efficiency, utility and good economics. That's why it's built. What does a 228i represent?

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

No...I believe what you spend your money on and what you drive is indicative of your taste. His quip was accurate. I mean...you see flaws in a flawless Hyper-car that's handbuilt by less than 10 people. Lol. At least a Corolla represents efficiency, utility and good economics. That's why it's built. What does a 228i represent?

Why on earth are you trying to bash arguably the market's best small luxury coupe (others' words, not mine, though I concur) on a forum that represents the maker of that car, dude? To prove a point about flawlessness?

Newsflash: Nothing in this world is flawless. Knowledge should teach you that.

Butthurt apparently begets desperation.

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Why on earth are you trying to bash arguably the market's best small luxury coupe (others' words, not mine, though I concur) on a forum that represents the maker of that car, dude? To prove a point about flawlessness?

Newsflash: Nothing in this world is flawless. Knowledge should teach you that.

Butthurt apparently begets desperation.

You use a lot of hyperbole in your writings. Many extremes. I can't locate one word that "bashed" the 228i. That said, you're delusional if you think that low-rung BMW represents luxury. Like, really? And in terms of craftsmanship, we all can agree, that the Pagani personifies a flawless creation. Again...I don't expect you to agree because....

Also, why would I be "butt hurt" I mean...you represent a huge financial gap between what's hot and what's not on the road. I don't. Good luck to you.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

You use a lot of hyperbole in your writings. Many extremes. I can't locate one word that "bashed" the 228i. That said, you're delusional if you think that low-rung BMW represents luxury. Like, really? And in terms of craftsmanship, we all can agree, that the Pagani personifies a flawless creation. Again...I don't expect you to agree because....

Also, why would I be "butt hurt" I mean...you represent a huge financial gap between what's hot and what's not on the road. I don't. Good luck to you.

Now we're getting into semantics. I'm not gonna play that game.

My life doesn't boil down to financials. If it did, I'd be making much more than I do. Nor does it boil down to a need to flaunt what I do have. My life boils down to passion, efficiency, morality, and intellectual interest. That's why I own everything I own, and what informs every belief and opinion I have.

My opinion regarding Pagani differs from yours (and others) because of what I know and what I appreciate. I expressed that viewpoint; you (and others) expressed yours. Fair enough, right? Apparently not, since some of those others feel a need to assume and judge based on what they do not know, about both Pagani (the man and the operation) and me personally.

Assumption is the basis for the dissolution of critical discussion, and it's a symptom of an inability to participate further in constructive debate. One colloquially termed result of the latter? Butthurt.

Just sayin'. I'll continue to enjoy the heck out of my modified 2 Series because it feeds my passions. Theoretically, a Pagani would not for the reasons I've outlined. I'm entitled to my reasoning. Others are entitled to theirs; what that does not entitle them to is assuming and attacking someone who believes differently.

[48Laws]

What's the big reveal? Seems disingenuous to be so cryptic if you're privy to information no one else is. Lol. I've seen it all... a modified 228i feeds your passion but a Pagani can't. Lmfao. Good luck to you.