[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

So does that mean that any German cars that use ADblue is polluting at 9c and colder?

On one particular pollutant: NOx.

A diesel still emits less greenhouse gas than a gasoline engine.

[Nahlem]

I guess we shall find out soon enough if BMW is manipulating their emissions when it's BMWs turn too be probed for cheating if they are found too be guilty then that will be the beginning of the end for the diesels.

I have never been a big fan of diesel i prefer petrol my self and they should be focusing on developing proper petrol/eve hybrids with at least 200-300 km range on the ev so people don't waste petrol when doing daily stuff like driving to work and home then dropping off the kids at school and then picking them up and also going too the grocery store being able to do all that on ev would be great then when wanting to drive in a more fun fashion switching to the petrol engine. Or when going on longer trips where the ev can't make the long trip.

I always found it funny when sitting at a coffee shop enjoying the sun watching people and seeing a good looking car outside parked then when the owner came outside to leave and start the car just to be hit in the face by the awful smell of chlorine and the gurgle sound of the diesel car its just not as nice as a pure petrol engine.

Oh well time will tell what happens to diesel,people just have to stop being so and excuse my language, people just have too stop being so but hurt when it comes to stuff like this, if VW, Audi & Mercedes where honest from the start and said "hey sorry we are not able to produce diesel witch meets regulations, and we are going to focus on hybrids,ev & petrol cars " then the situation would be different but they got caught and now just accept the punishment whether it be by cities forbidding the diesels or massive fines, just accept it as a company, move on and don't cheat again.

[BimmerMat135]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

On one particular pollutant: NOx.

A diesel still emits less greenhouse gas than a gasoline engine.

Ok I was under the impression that at least BMW system was able to deal with NOX even in cold temperatures.

[MalibuBimmer]

Pro tip to BMW: If you are going to release a press release in English, make sure it was written or translated by somebody who can actually read and write in English.

WTF does this monstrosity of a sentence mean: "From a BMW Group perspective, the objective of discussions with other manufacturers concerning AdBlue tanks was the installation of the required tanking infrastructure in Europe."

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

So does that mean that any German cars that use ADblue is polluting at 9c and colder?

Yup.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by lemetier

Ummm MEVD is made by whom?

MEVD is used on the 316i engines... that's not a diesel but a gasoline engine.

https://www.google.de/search?q=MEVD&...F-8#q=MEVD+bmw


Maybe there are some ECU's that are Bosch units... but I think for the most part... BMW uses Siemens ECU's.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

c63er


ALSO... the one thing that hardly no one will talk about when it comes to EURO 6 emission diesels... is that they can only meet those emission standards down to 9.5'C(49' Fahrenheit) temps!! Colder than 49'F and the Ad-Blue injection no longer works!

Dackel

I'm going to have to ask for proof because from what I've read over the years your statement is false. The SCR catalyst only converts when exhaust temps heat it to well over 100C. Ambient temps have no bearing on this.

Also the Adblue "active" tank (BMW at least) is heated so the system will continue to operate in freezing temps.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

I'm going to have to ask for proof because from what I've read over the years your statement is false. The SCR catalyst only converts when exhaust temps heat it to well over 100C. Ambient temps have no bearing on this.

Also the Adblue "active" tank (BMW at least) is heated so the system will continue to operate in freezing temps.

Well... the media in Germany is reporting that the ad-blue injection doesn't work when the temps are under 9.5'C. Its been reported for awhile now - when the VW scandal broke. They say the new SW that will be rolled out(VAG) makes the Ad-Blue work down a few more degrees colder(~8'C). That is according to media reports over here though.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

Pro tip to BMW: If you are going to release a press release in English, make sure it was written or translated by somebody who can actually read and write in English.

WTF does this monstrosity of a sentence mean: "From a BMW Group perspective, the objective of discussions with other manufacturers concerning AdBlue tanks was the installation of the required tanking infrastructure in Europe."

The Tanking Infrastructure includes a universal standard DEF filling nozzle, an established network of filling sources, and standards/requirements for ensuring proper storage for bottles and nozzle dispense filling locations.

[DirkH]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

So does that mean that any German cars that use ADblue is polluting at 9c and colder?

My 530d (F11) Blue Performance, is euro6 compliant and does not have/need adBlue

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by DirkH

My 530d (F11) Blue Performance, is euro6 compliant and does not have/need adBlue

BluePerformance adds the SCR system though

[nozydog]

Originally Posted by BorisBulldog

The petty cheating of US EPA reg's is why I will never buy a VW or Audi!

+1..... corporate arrogance & greed at its very worst!!

[drjoe66]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Well... the media in Germany is reporting that the ad-blue injection doesn't work when the temps are under 9.5'C. Its been reported for awhile now - when the VW scandal broke. They say the new SW that will be rolled out(VAG) makes the Ad-Blue work down a few more degrees colder(~8'C). That is according to media reports over here though.

Ahhhh, the media. I am sure they know exactly how the system works......

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by c63er

This is all in response to the reports of the German cartel, which any observer with a few IQ points easily sees as being true.

Our own SCOTT26 in his arrogance used to brag about how the first car from a new production line would be delivered to the bmw gates by mercedes and vice versa. The German car structure is that they won't hurt each other and possibly help each other where mutually beneficial. When it comes to competing in the global market that would make sense from a $ point of view.

The problem is that structure is not good for consumers nor is it good for the products in the long run.

You can tangibly see this now, cars from all the German brands now drive and steer very similarly. Transmissions between them are almost ubiquitously the same. With a new German car what you are paying for is a brand name, styling and whatever pride your ego assigns to those things. When one of 3 decides to go with conservative homogenized styling across the lineup all the rest do he exact same thing. An amazing co incidence for car styling which is set years in advance. Of course there is collusion.

So the German companies have high profits while we have subpar and homogenized products. I do hope this forces a change in how bussiness is done because any change in how bmw operates would be good from our perspective. As we all know it is German Toyota right now.

A truism in the world is that every action has unintended consequences, and the diesel gate is far from over it seems as they are now reaching their hands into the very corporate bowels of these companies and I for one cheer this on. We need change and if bmw feels the heat, maybe they will put effort into making a drivers car to compete instead of cheating or feeling the need to collude with the "competition".

Sorry to break it to you, but almost all car manufacturers in Europe share cars for tear down analysis. That includes the likes of Ferrari, jaguar, Land Rover, by the way and they aren't German last time I checked.

And to take this discussion further, it is not the OEM's that set the pace of car development, it is the hundreds of supply partners, the tier 1's like Bosch, Johnson controls, faurecia, BOS, webasto, Delphi, etc. Companies like BMW only dictate what size and shape their vehicle will be, choose a supply partner for each commodity, and then put all the bits together.

So nothing sinister going on by looking at each other's products, they are all made by the same group of companies.

[nozydog]

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

Pro tip to BMW: If you are going to release a press release in English, make sure it was written or translated by somebody who can actually read and write in English.

WTF does this monstrosity of a sentence mean: "From a BMW Group perspective, the objective of discussions with other manufacturers concerning AdBlue tanks was the installation of the required tanking infrastructure in Europe."

Makes sense to me!!

[BorisBulldog]

Dackel quote-

I think your both wrong. The largest German company with the most "pull" to set automotive car parts prices is... VOLKSWAGEN. Yes, VW. They build so many cars that share so many of the same parts... that VW can tell a company how MUCH they will pay IF that company wants to do business with VW. BMW and MB are small-er players in that game.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Really?

After agreeing to a $14.7 billion fine ( about 3 years of profit for VW) for fraud and having to take back millions of cars, how much pull you think they will have?

[RED-d]

Some of these responses are unbelievable. Does anyone believe that anyone buys a car brand based on corporate holiness? For 99% of the buyers it's monthly payments or bottom line price. The other 1% who haven't had the luxury of their beloved getting a press-oscopy; better grease up, it'll come.

[sahajesh]

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

Pro tip to BMW: If you are going to release a press release in English, make sure it was written or translated by somebody who can actually read and write in English.

WTF does this monstrosity of a sentence mean: "From a BMW Group perspective, the objective of discussions with other manufacturers concerning AdBlue tanks was the installation of the required tanking infrastructure in Europe."

Makes sense to me - what's the issue?

[nozydog]

Originally Posted by RED-d

Some of these responses are unbelievable. Does anyone believe that anyone buys a car brand based on corporate holiness? For 99% of the buyers it's monthly payments or bottom line price. The other 1% who haven't had the luxury of their beloved getting a press-oscopy; better grease up, it'll come.

Not really looking for corporate 'holiness'... just honesty with customers and operating within the law!!! Fraud is fraud... VW lied to & conned it's customers for a substantial period of time, leading them to believe the cars they were buying were far 'cleaner' than they actually were... many 'eco conscious' buyers would have chosen their VW based on the deliberately misleading figures supplied by the company.

I owned a Golf at the time diesel-gate broke, and although it was a newer car than those affected, come trade-in time I was faced with dealers inhaling sharply through pursed lips, followed by the words "problem is it's a VW diesel so we can't give you as much as we normally would"... how many owners lost money over this will never truly be known!

[MalibuBimmer]

Originally Posted by sahajesh

Makes sense to me - what's the issue?

What BMW really meant was "BMW had no reason to conspire since our diesel systems are different. All we discussed during these meetings with other German manufacturers was installation locations for the AdBlue tanks."

But that would require BMW to acknowledge that a German-wide auto maker conspiracy was the subject of its press release.

[drjoe66]

Originally Posted by Broken_Gearbox

In the UK they got it wrong. The government backed Diesel engines until they realised that more than 2000 diesel related deaths occurred in one year. This included spanner monkeys working with Diesel engines day in and day out to children who entered the garage while their dad left the engine idling. Now they realise they had it wrong. It is not the carbon footprint of gasoline engines but the notorious oxide gases from Diesel. Diesel Particulate Filters have come a long way though! We're nowhere near the 2000 mark anymore.

BMW need to make their stance clear on what they will do for Euro 5 diesels owners. Hopefully not at the expense of the owners!

Then we have other issues such as countries wanting to follow suit or not.

Now the children getting hurt or even worse die in garages, that is from CO and carboxyhemoglobin formation. And regular gasoline cars also emit CO.....

[c63er]

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

What BMW really meant was "BMW had no reason to conspire since our diesel systems are different. All we discussed during these meetings with other German manufacturers was installation locations for the AdBlue tanks."

But that would require BMW to acknowledge that a German-wide auto maker conspiracy was the subject of its press release.

Someone gets it.

The amount of stupidity and sheer gullibility out there is astounding.