[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Forgot about those, thanks. Will be interesting to see if they keep the 2er rwd and manual for the next gen.

The 2022 G42 2 Series coupe will indeed remain RWD. Whether it and/or the G8x M2 that will be based on it will retain the manual transmission option is still unknown. If MT take rates on the current generation stay strong, I'd expect it to stick around for the next.

Would still love a lighter, four or five door 2er.

The UKL-based (FWD/AWD) F44 2 Series Gran Coupe will debut late next year or early 2020.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by wdb

I kind of like the corollary fact that manual transmissions are becoming anti-theft devices.

And great for your kids, in that its tough to text and drive with the stick.

[omasou]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Well, there's the whole being in control and not just handing over one more thing to a computer thing and just knowing how to do it.

I can buy split firewood, but I prefer to do it myself. Same thing here.

And for most cars it hasn't been a cheaper option for years. Car manufacturers would prefer you to take the DCT/auto for fleet averages. Ultimately this is what will kill manuals for all but the fringe sports cars like the Miata and Boxster and likely Corvette since they seem to have returned to sanity.

Not sure about your car(s) but BMW charged me $2,500 for the DCT, manual was included in the base price.

[Red Bread]

I honestly don't know as like the cost for a matte pink paint job, I really don't care. But I thought I'd read that many companies were making the auto standard and the manual a no cost option, effectively charging more for manuals. I'm fine with that.

[yco]

even if im not even in those statistics, looked pretty normal for me.. maybe more than %90 of the people driving because they need to go somewhere not for joy.. they dont care about their cars or joy or something, or they re not super into driving even if they like..

unless i buy a drivers car like E46 M3 again i wouldnt even think buying a manual if that one ll be main and only daily car.. i can think of manual if that ll be my second car.. i like manuals on track not in the traffic..

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

...I thought I'd read that many companies were making the auto standard and the manual a no cost option, effectively charging more for manuals. I'm fine with that.

That is the case for the 4 Series, the outgoing 3 Series, and, I believe, the 2 Series as well. The M2, outgoing M3, and M4 are the opposite - the manual is standard while the DCT is an additional charge.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

please drop the manual so my car becomes rare!

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Further reinforces my strong belief change isn't always, and often times rarely, good.

Which is a damned funny statement since the Mr. Statham the Transporter in your avatar is driving an Audi with an automatic.

Might want to rethink that image, sir. (Yes, that's at least a double entendre.)

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by omasou

IMHO the only reason manual have persisted this long is b/c

1) offers a lower cost option
2) they were fuel efficient

Modern DCT and automatics are killing #2

And #1 is about to disappear, too. There'll be a few cars that are offered with a manual as a cost option for a few years longer, I think. But that'll be it.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Which is a damned funny statement since the Mr. Statham the Transporter in your avatar is driving an Audi with an automatic.

Might want to rethink that image, sir. (Yes, that's at least a double entendre.)

Yeah but that's Mr. Statham, the universe's rules don't apply to him.

[Red Bread]

I think it was Mark Wahlburg that had to have an automatic Mini brought in for filming the Italian Job remake since he couldn't drive a manual. Meow.

[Efthreeoh]

Reality check...

The F30 comes with a 8-speed automatic. Not a DCT. The 8-sp is claimed at .1 sec faster than the manual. LOL Whoopededooo.

[shay2nak]

The graph is interesting. I can't bring it up now, but from 97 to 01 (?) there was a steep drop in manuals then it levels off. Something went on during those 4/5 years to accelerate the decline, otherwise it would sit at 15% instead of 5%.

I am proud to say all my cars are 6MT, including my DD.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by shay2nak

The graph is interesting. I can't bring it up now, but from 97 to 01 (?) there was a steep drop in manuals then it levels off. Something went on during those 4/5 years to accelerate the decline, otherwise it would sit at 15% instead of 5%.

<guess>
Old people died.
</guess>

I am proud to say all my cars are 6MT, including my DD.

While I love to shift my cars (and dazzle my wife with my double clutch downshifts) I also appreciate and understand the place for slushboxes. My Tacoma has one, on purpose, because I bought it to tow stuff and automatics are WAY easier at that. My GS350 is an automatic too, not so much by choice but that's the only way they come. It eats highway miles and has a huge back seat, which is why I bought it. I could care less about shifting when I drive it.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by shay2nak

The graph is interesting. I can't bring it up now, but from 97 to 01 (?) there was a steep drop in manuals then it levels off. Something went on during those 4/5 years to accelerate the decline, otherwise it would sit at 15% instead of 5%.

I am proud to say all my cars are 6MT, including my DD.

Cell phone use exploded during those years. I remember I was in the Army and this was when a cell-phone went from a novelty that a few people had with them, to something EVERYONE had including kids. Now people want to talk on their phone or surf the net a lot more than driving, but people started talking on their phones while driving, I'd assume any remaining reason to get a manual evaporated quickly. From then to now, the autos have gotten so sophisticated and predictive that remaining things like performance and economy have reversed and favor autos.

[jkoral]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

There'll be a few cars that are offered with a manual as a cost option for a few years longer, I think. But that'll be it.

Not disputing this statement, I was just curious if you know of any models off the top of your head where the manual is a cost option.


I was looking at the Hyundai Velostar the other day. Manual offered on the base model (automatic +$1K), not available in middle trim, and then it comes back on the Turbo R-spec and Turbo Ultimate (where DCT is $1500). The upcoming Velostar N (https://www.hyundaiusa.com/veloster-n) is also going to offer manual.

Never driven one, but I dare say I'd rather drive a manual Velostar Turbo Ultimate/N than an automatic 3-series.

IIRC, three executives from BMW M have been poached by Hyundai for it's N high performance division.

[RS DAVE]

You guys were the only country in the world to get the Manual 6 speed E60 M5, what tool that must have been. we in the UK got the shitty SMG.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by RS DAVE

You guys were the only country in the world to get the Manual 6 speed E60 M5, what tool that must have been. we in the UK got the shitty SMG.

Don't worry. It didn't really work. You couldn't kill DSC. That car was a motor looking for another home.

[RS DAVE]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Don't worry. It didn't really work. You couldn't kill DSC. That car was a motor looking for another home.

On BMW'S here M5 included if you press the DSC button and hold it down for 5 seconds it completely turns it off.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by RS DAVE

On BMW'S here M5 included if you press the DSC button and hold it down for 5 seconds it completely turns it off.

SMG? The manuals were a bit touched.

[The HACK]

It's a chicken or the egg issue.

First, there is financial incentive for auto makers not to make TWO separate type of transmission for each make and model. Before globalization and federal mandates to standardize testing, offering a manual and an auto has zero impact on the company's bottom line. But now it cost hundreds of millions just to make sure you can sell BOTH a manual and an auto around the world. The math is simple. ANYONE can drive an auto. Not everyone can drive a manual. Financially it's much easier to justify the cost of federalizing an automatic, rather than both an automatic AND a manual.

Now, is it hard to sell a manual because no one knows how to drive it, or is it hard to find a manual because dealerships don't stock it, therefore fewer and fewer people buy and learn how to drive manuals? When I bought my first manual, dealership almost always have a handful of manuals on the lot so it wasn't hard to find the car I wanted. Now, if you're looking to buy your first manual from a dealership? Good luck, you're locked in to like half a dozen models that still makes manuals, and the likelihood of a dealership stocking said manual is slim and NONE. Unless you're looking specifically for 2 or 3 models, like the Civic Type R or Mustang Bullit, there are no dealers willing to stock a manual where an automatic is available (and by automatic I want to include DCTs and automated manuals like DCTs). So if you're not wanting the mark-ups on a CTR or Bullit? Have fun. The last manual I bought off the lot, I got a MASSIVE 25% discount off of MSRP because the dealer couldn't give it away. It's the only manual on their lot, and it's been sitting there on the lot for nearly 2 years with 20 miles on it. No one wanted it because no one can drive it.

This is the end result of years and years of dealership not willing to stock and hold a car that a minority of drivers will look at, with pressure from auto makers to kill a second cost to federalize, and since manuals are harder and harder to find, fewer and fewer buyers know how to drive a manual thus it basically KILLS the manual.

It's not performance, efficiency, or cost of ownership that kills the manual. Otherwise, if those were factors AUTOMATIC transmissions would have been killed long ago.

[Mingwan]

when manuals really start dying, I suppose you can always go aftermarket if you really want it that badly.