[Dubbedoutbimmer]

Originally Posted by fermion

one of the biggest factors investment banks consider when recruiting is intelligence. its basically a straight out brain game. thus, you need to have an economics, applied math, or computer science degree from one of the top ten universities in the US to have a chance at landing one of the top jobs. Even then, its not easy. I'm at one of these top schools and when Goldman Sachs comes to recruit, they still take less than a quarter of the people who submit resumes.

weird all three of my friends were college drop out's so is the owner of their company who told me most place's will train a gogetter who has his head on straight

the owner is making 7 figures and my friends are all in 6 figures and own property's not bad for no special schooling

[unagi1]

It's an apples to oranges comparison...like comparing brokerages to hedge funds...nothing against your guys but it's more like 8 figures for the big players not 7.

[Dubbedoutbimmer]

Originally Posted by unagi1

It's an apples to oranges comparison...like comparing brokerages to hedge funds...nothing against your guys but it's more like 8 figures for the big players not 7.

hey 7 would work more than ok for me lol

but yea one kid I know is doing day trading and his boss just swung a 8 figure loss last week I cant imagin wow I would shit a twinkie

[fermion]

its much different at the top investment banks and hedge funds. those places seek out the math/physics majors to do their mathematical modeling. solving non-linear pde's isn't something everybody can do so these specialists (they're called quants in the field) get paid a ton to do what they do.

first year salary straight out of college is 100k + bonus. After 5-6 years, 7 figures becomes the norm. average IQ of these guys is probably north of 140.

[aasd]

Originally Posted by fermion

its much different at the top investment banks and hedge funds. those places seek out the math/physics majors to do their mathematical modeling. solving non-linear pde's isn't something everybody can do so these specialists (they're called quants in the field) get paid a ton to do what they do.

first year salary straight out of college is 100k + bonus. After 5-6 years, 7 figures becomes the norm. average IQ of these guys is probably north of 140.

I have yet to see a quantitative analyst(quant) "first year out of college.." almost all of them come out with a PhD and years of prior experience. and yes, it's true that they are math // physics major with extensive computer skills... originially their focus was only on risk management and derivaties, now they do a lot more... look up harry markowitz on portfolio selection... amazing analyses... on other factor: there always exists a risk/reward ration in anything you do: generally speaking, more risk yields more rewards... a 7 figure job, which by no means would be a low-hanging fruit, can get you laid off with one wrong move... make sure you always calculate both sides of the equation..

[fobunited]

It looks like you are more interested in the sales side, which has cleverly disguised titles in the financial industry, like Financial Consultant, or Financial Advisor, or Wealth Planner, etc. etc. etc. In the end, they're all salesmen.

The tough thing about working in this market is that you need to find someone to sponsor you for your Series 7 at the very least. That sponsorship as well as the training and paying you while you study costs the sponsoring company about $50,000 so to them, you better be able to prove BEFOREHAND that you're worth the investment. Because of the market right now, very very few companies are sponsoring people for the 7.

If you do want to go into the industry and have someone sponsor your 7, draw up a really good business plan of how you are going to prospect, bring in clients, network and build relationships, and in the end, bring in money and sell product. You want to get as detailed as possible, down to why the demographics of your clientele base would buy certain products.

As stated earlier, this industry is NOT a niche industry. Merrill Lynch last year had over 14,000 financial advisers and Morgan Stanley had over 6,000. These are wealth managers, if you include all the brokers, you're pushing into the tens if not hundreds of thousands.

People are in this industry for different purposes. Some just want to become filthy rich, some genuinely want to help people manage their finances and plan for retirement. Many of the ones that want to become filthy rich, do so but at the expense of many thing, family and morals included. If you watch the news lately, some of those people have gotten a little too greedy as of late and end up in jail and faking their suicide. People who want to genuinely help people work very hard and are compensated as well, just not as lavishly. Since they truly have their clients' best interests at heart, they're not going to load them up with B shares, random structured product garbage, or crappy variable annuities promising a certain return.

There definitely is a lot of potential to make a ton of money in this industry, believe me I worked at Morgan Stanley in San Francisco, the third largest branch in the country and one of the top in terms of revenue, but you sacrifice a lot as well, and there will be many times where you will ask yourself if what you're doing it really ethical. But if you really are chasing money, those thoughts will soon fade away.

[fobunited]

Oh yeah, base pay averaged between 40-55k for the first year if you're a trainee + bonuses, and your 7, 66, 31, and CA Insurance are paid for. You are allotted 4 months to obtain and pass all your licenses, then you have 1 year to build up your business and generate a certain amount of revenue with checkpoints every quarter. You don't meet those goals, you're out. The success rate in the industry is about 1-2/10.

[aasd]

Originally Posted by fobunited

Oh yeah, base pay averaged between 40-55k for the first year if you're a trainee + bonuses, and your 7, 66, 31, and CA Insurance are paid for. You are allotted 4 months to obtain and pass all your licenses, then you have 1 year to build up your business and generate a certain amount of revenue with checkpoints every quarter. You don't meet those goals, you're out. The success rate in the industry is about 1-2/10.

Originally Posted by fobunited

It looks like you are more interested in the sales side, which has cleverly disguised titles in the financial industry, like Financial Consultant, or Financial Advisor, or Wealth Planner, etc. etc. etc. In the end, they're all salesmen......................But if you really are chasing money, those thoughts will soon fade away.

Absolutely true!

[fermion]

Originally Posted by aasd

I have yet to see a quantitative analyst(quant) "first year out of college.." almost all of them come out with a PhD and years of prior experience. and yes, it's true that they are math // physics major with extensive computer skills... originially their focus was only on risk management and derivaties, now they do a lot more... look up harry markowitz on portfolio selection... amazing analyses... on other factor: there always exists a risk/reward ration in anything you do: generally speaking, more risk yields more rewards... a 7 figure job, which by no means would be a low-hanging fruit, can get you laid off with one wrong move... make sure you always calculate both sides of the equation..

from where i am from, plenty of people graduate and become quants straight out of undergrad. Then again, my situation is probably different as I am at Caltech where goldman sachs is among the largest hirers of our undergrads. However, I have heard from friends at Princeton and Harvard that even at those schools, it is possible for people to land jobs straight out of undergrad. The risk of getting laid off as a quant is not as large as you make it out to be. Yes, if you consistently underperform, you will be cut, but that is the same at any place. If you jump through all the hoops to be a quant, your job is pretty secure as you are really really hard to replace. The hard part is being smart enough to be qualified for the job and having the mettle to work 100 hour work weeks. It may seem like a lot, but its about the same as the other alternatives facing bright math/physics majors, ie, getting a PhD.

Being a quant is the most sure way to make a million quickly (3-4 years usually) on wall street. but its not for everyone as the intelligence requirement is high.

[unagi1]

fobunited, well said.

[mrwma237]

Originally Posted by aasd

ooh.. so you want to be a private wealth manager.. that's what I do, and I can tell you one thing, there's nothing niche about this market... there are more than 50,000 advisors in the US competing for the same ppl...lots of cold-calling, networking, and grunt work... your first few years (3-4) you're overworked and underpaid, unless you are very well-connected with an affluent community who really trust you with their money.. ironically, ppl would trust their childern with you before they trust you with their money.. once u make it however, sky's the limit..you have deadlines and numbers to meet..no exceptions, no game...give it a try.. you might like it. Oh... a piece of very invaluable advice, find a firm right now that carries a positive market sentiment.. and forget about working at a boutique firm.. you'll never win.

Hey, very well said. I am too, doing exactly what you're doing. I think I'm calling your prospects right now as we speak.

Which firm are you with and what region? Just curious.

I read all your other posts, very accurately said.

[mrwma237]

Originally Posted by fobunited

It looks like you are more interested in the sales side, which has cleverly disguised titles in the financial industry, like Financial Consultant, or Financial Advisor, or Wealth Planner, etc. etc. etc. In the end, they're all salesmen.

The tough thing about working in this market is that you need to find someone to sponsor you for your Series 7 at the very least. That sponsorship as well as the training and paying you while you study costs the sponsoring company about $50,000 so to them, you better be able to prove BEFOREHAND that you're worth the investment. Because of the market right now, very very few companies are sponsoring people for the 7.

If you do want to go into the industry and have someone sponsor your 7, draw up a really good business plan of how you are going to prospect, bring in clients, network and build relationships, and in the end, bring in money and sell product. You want to get as detailed as possible, down to why the demographics of your clientele base would buy certain products.

As stated earlier, this industry is NOT a niche industry. Merrill Lynch last year had over 14,000 financial advisers and Morgan Stanley had over 6,000. These are wealth managers, if you include all the brokers, you're pushing into the tens if not hundreds of thousands.

People are in this industry for different purposes. Some just want to become filthy rich, some genuinely want to help people manage their finances and plan for retirement. Many of the ones that want to become filthy rich, do so but at the expense of many thing, family and morals included. If you watch the news lately, some of those people have gotten a little too greedy as of late and end up in jail and faking their suicide. People who want to genuinely help people work very hard and are compensated as well, just not as lavishly. Since they truly have their clients' best interests at heart, they're not going to load them up with B shares, random structured product garbage, or crappy variable annuities promising a certain return.

There definitely is a lot of potential to make a ton of money in this industry, believe me I worked at Morgan Stanley in San Francisco, the third largest branch in the country and one of the top in terms of revenue, but you sacrifice a lot as well, and there will be many times where you will ask yourself if what you're doing it really ethical. But if you really are chasing money, those thoughts will soon fade away.

+1

Which branch are you with, Menlo Park?

How are you doing with MARS and ARS, or are you affected at all?

[F87LUV]

the guys have basically covered it all.... sh*tty time to get into it... luckily my co is pretty stable compared to some others theyre even hiring

[fobunited]

mrwma237: Sorry, no. San Francisco. I believe the manager at Menlo used to be the sales manager in SF though.

[aasd]

Originally Posted by mrwma237

Hey, very well said. I am too, doing exactly what you're doing. I think I'm calling your prospects right now as we speak.

Which firm are you with and what region? Just curious.

I read all your other posts, very accurately said.

PM sent!

[aasd]

Originally Posted by fobunited

It looks like you are more interested in the sales side, which has cleverly disguised titles in the financial industry, like Financial Consultant, or Financial Advisor, or Wealth Planner, etc. etc. etc. In the end, they're all salesmen.

As much as this is true, there's still a wide potential to be an asset manager. The industry DEFINITELY provides enough basis for a person to focus only on sales and let the back offices take care of the portfolio management... I frankly despise that because that allows for no added-value from me. So, my business is doubly-intesive as I have to look for more clients (which most come thru referrals) and keep an open and educated mind for each of my client's portfolios as each bear a different structure depending on their goals, time horizio, risk tolerance, and other contributing factors... nevertheless, at the end of the day, you can be but a fancy car salesperson. I refuse that by all means....

[mrwma237]

That is absolutely true. What distinguish you versus another FA in the industry is your knowledge, not the firm represented on your business card. Relatively speaking, all of these brokerage firms are the same. You can be from GS, UBS, ML, or MS, at the end of the day, the % of your return on your investments does not change wherever you go. You add value to your clients by giving them the best asset management strategies & service, the companies you work for only provide you the platform, due dillgence, and office space. For example, I can invest my client's $ in the same funds as the FA at UBS or ML, it's choosing which fund to invest in is the difference. Now, I'm only speaking in terms of the role as a FA, investment banking and M&A is something else.

[fobunited]

For example, I can invest my client's $ in the same funds as the FA at UBS or ML, it's choosing which fund to invest in is the difference.

That's not necessarily true. Different brokerage houses have different fund availabilities.

I think for the casual investor, just go to a discount brokerage house. You're not going to get the attention for customized advice at a large brokerage house. If you have large assets, estate issues, tax sensitive issues, etc. then you want to find someone who's going to manage your money well. Unfortunately, these services usually require large fees. Most managed accounts charge anywhere between 1-2% management fee, but have managers basing their management strategy on pretty much the same thing. Find a place where you can have an actively managed account with low management fees!

[mrwma237]

Originally Posted by fobunited

For example, I can invest my client's $ in the same funds as the FA at UBS or ML, it's choosing which fund to invest in is the difference.

That's not necessarily true. Different brokerage houses have different fund availabilities.

Yeah, perhaps you're right. I haven't been at enough firms to make that blanket statement. However, I do understand that your top 5 biggest fund families (American Funds, Fidelity, Templeton, etc) are all available at all these wire houses. I'm not 100% sure, but correct me if I'm wrong. With the exception with more boutique investment vehicles such as hedge funds, structure products and etc. With that being said, those type of investments usually require a higher minimum and more experience FAs offerings.

Also with the exception with IPOs and Preferred securities because underwritings are involved and those who invest with wire houses with a strong IBanking department.

But wouldn't you agree that your core investment vehicles are generally available across most wire houses?

[Kyosho]

Get your Grad school diploma from Sloan, Whartons, etc. Rub some shoulders with existing members of the firm.
Thatll get you in