[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Poiseuille

ok ok ok
Max is Belgian

Spot on . But we saw he drives in F1 under the Dutch flag . That's why people think Max is Dutch .
The Dutch flag on his Red Bull is actually financial speculation ,because the Belgian taxes are F@..... insane (I can know it)

#moneyisinvolvedinthesituation

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by StatenEye

Comparing to Schumi and Senna is disgusting dude.

Senna had to work his way to F1, and then had to work his was to the Mcclaren on his own back, not dad's, so were talking a totally different breed here. Verstappen was handed keys to a F1 car way too early and has been a wrecking ball ever since, reminds me of Pastor with his sheer lack of responsibility and constant crashes.

I think due to his god complex he did feel the need to impose his dominance on Ocon bc remember, he was beaten by Ocon in 2014 in F3, so maybe theres still a rivalry there but Ocon was clearly faster and for good reason, fresh tires... Any experienced non petulant driver would have assumed the worst there and let Ocon drive through as he was pushing (Max's omission via radio) he was simply faster at the time. Instead MV assumed a faster car was going to back off? Not smart in my book, but nothing surprising judging by his history of recklessness. I remember when he blatantly took out Ricciardo with understeer or when he pulled a defensive double move on Ricciardo in Baku and caused an accident. He took out Vettle in China. The worst was in Monaco in 2015, looked like he was trying to kill Grosjean on turn 1 i believe.

I'd love to see this settled in equal cars. Sick of Verstappens bitching and constant accidents then justifying his dumb decisions. Kid thinks he God's gift to F1 and I've seen enough.

.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by StatenEye

I think due to his god complex he did feel the need to impose his dominance on Ocon bc remember, he was beaten by Ocon in 2014 in F3, so maybe theres still a rivalry there but Ocon was clearly faster and for good reason, fresh tires... Any experienced non petulant driver would have assumed the worst there and let Ocon drive through as he was pushing (Max's omission via radio) he was simply faster at the time. Instead MV assumed a faster car was going to back off? Not smart in my book,

You may not like Verstappen but in this case he was the race leader batteling the world champion for P1.
Ocon was what? 10th? 15th? trailing a lap behind batteling who knows.....

So the race leader should hold back and deviate from the ideal driving line, loosing precious seconds on P1 to the world champion to someone who had ample chance to even score 1 point in this GP?!?

Ocon's attempt to overtake was poorly chosen. Yes he had a faster car with fresh tyres but like I said he had a huge gap when turning onto the straight. If he wanted to overtake there, he should have taken care of that gap in the 2 corners before the straight so he would have been directly behind him and could have fully passed him on the straight.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by StatenEye

Comparing to Schumi and Senna is disgusting dude.

Senna had to work his way to F1, and then had to work his was to the Mcclaren on his own back, not dad's, so were talking a totally different breed here. Verstappen was handed keys to a F1 car way too early and has been a wrecking ball ever since, reminds me of Pastor with his sheer lack of responsibility and constant crashes.

I think due to his god complex he did feel the need to impose his dominance on Ocon bc remember, he was beaten by Ocon in 2014 in F3, so maybe theres still a rivalry there but Ocon was clearly faster and for good reason, fresh tires... Any experienced non petulant driver would have assumed the worst there and let Ocon drive through as he was pushing (Max's omission via radio) he was simply faster at the time. Instead MV assumed a faster car was going to back off? Not smart in my book, but nothing surprising judging by his history of recklessness. I remember when he blatantly took out Ricciardo with understeer or when he pulled a defensive double move on Ricciardo in Baku and caused an accident. He took out Vettle in China. The worst was in Monaco in 2015, looked like he was trying to kill Grosjean on turn 1 i believe.

I'd love to see this settled in equal cars. Sick of Verstappens bitching and constant accidents then justifying his dumb decisions. Kid thinks he God's gift to F1 and I've seen enough.

Mostly agreed, but the kids got a ton of talent. When/if he grows up and learns to pick his spots better he is gonna be close to unstoppable IMO. But, that is a big IF.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

You may not like Verstappen but in this case he was the race leader batteling the world champion for P1.
Ocon was what? 10th? 15th? trailing a lap behind batteling who knows.....

So the race leader should hold back and deviate from the ideal driving line, loosing precious seconds on P1 to the world champion to someone who had ample chance to even score 1 point in this GP?!?

Ocon's attempt to overtake was poorly chosen. Yes he had a faster car with fresh tyres but like I said he had a huge gap when turning onto the straight. If he wanted to overtake there, he should have taken care of that gap in the 2 corners before the straight so he would have been directly behind him and could have fully passed him on the straight.

Who had way more to lose in that spot? Obviously Verstappen, he should’ve just let him go when he lost site of him. Besides, where did he think we went, off track?

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

You may not like Verstappen but in this case he was the race leader batteling the world champion for P1.
Ocon was what? 10th? 15th? trailing a lap behind batteling who knows.....

So the race leader should hold back and deviate from the ideal driving line, loosing precious seconds on P1 to the world champion to someone who had ample chance to even score 1 point in this GP?!?

Ocon's attempt to overtake was poorly chosen. Yes he had a faster car with fresh tyres but like I said he had a huge gap when turning onto the straight. If he wanted to overtake there, he should have taken care of that gap in the 2 corners before the straight so he would have been directly behind him and could have fully passed him on the straight.

Ocon (the idiot) was 15th .
The idiot showed how he could crash with the leader (Max) in the race..

[Poiseuille]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Ocon (the idiot) was 15th .
The idiot showed how he could crash with the leader (Max) in the race..

well, looks like ///M Power won't be having Esteban over for tea & biscuits any time soon

[minn19]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Ocon (the idiot) was 15th .
The idiot showed how he could crash with the leader (Max) in the race..

The (idiot) was faster and had beaten Verstappen to the corner/preferred racing line. Said (idiot) also has a right to race and try and unlap himself etc.

Also as to my previous posts Max’s pride/testosterone wouldn’t allow himself to be passed on worn tires and was clearly slower. He crashed himself out of a possible win instead of just being smart and staying out of trouble with somebody that meant nothing to the race. Like I said, when he learns to let go of that crap he’ll be really a formidable force in F1.

Inexplicably Vettel decided to make decisions like he was new to F1 (similar to MVs long string of rash/poor decisions) and it possibly cost him another title. It certainly would of been a lot closer had SV stayed out of trouble he didn’t have to get into.

Plus Karma is a bitch as they say for MV.......lol

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by minn19

Said (idiot) also has a right to race and try and unlap himself etc.

Yes he may unlap himself. Nobody is arguing that. But its the way he did it (or tried to do so).
And that that was an illegal move for the way he did it also shows in the 10 sec stop/go penalty he got from the stewards (the 2nd most severe punishment they can give during a race) and he got 3 penaltypoints.
Verstappen got no penalty for his driving, only for his behaviour afterwards.
So on the track Verstappen was not to blame and Ocon was (at least, according to the officials).
The overtake was poor judgement from Ocon. He should have seen that he wasnt close enough to Verstappen to completely overtake him on the straight.
He couldnt place his car in front of Verstappen on the straight, instead he put his car next to him, ramming him in the next corner, where Verstappens front wheel was in front of Ocon's front wheel.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Yes he may unlap himself. Nobody is arguing that. But its the way he did it (or tried to do so).
And that that was an illegal move for the way he did it also shows in the 10 sec stop/go penalty he got from the stewards (the 2nd most severe punishment they can give during a race) and he got 3 penaltypoints.
Verstappen got no penalty for his driving, only for his behaviour afterwards.
So on the track Verstappen was not to blame and Ocon was (at least, according to the officials).
The overtake was poor judgement from Ocon. He should have seen that he wasnt close enough to Verstappen to completely overtake him on the straight.
He couldnt place his car in front of Verstappen on the straight, instead he put his car next to him, ramming him in the next corner, where Verstappens front wheel was in front of Ocon's front wheel.

Like a lot of referees decisions in many different sports, I don’t agree with a lot of them. Ocon blew by MV on the outside and MV knew he was there, but turned into him anyway knowing he was inside of him into the turn. It was a classic my dick is bigger than yours contest and it cost MV the win period.

Question for you MV defenders. Had he let up and let Ocon go how do you think the race would’ve went after that? Also going forward how many F1 championships do you think MV will win if he continues to think with the wrong head?

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by minn19

Question for you MV defenders. Had he let up and let Ocon go how do you think the race would’ve went after that? Also going forward how many F1 championships do you think MV will win if he continues to think with the wrong head?

The point is that driver has to make lots of these decisions with other drivers, competing for the same spot or lapping/unlapping them.
If you always give in, you'll always lose seconds, eventually affecting all your results.
As a race leader you shouldnt have to deviate from the ideal driving line when a lesser god tries to unlap himself. That Ocon chose a poor moment and was responsible for the crash follows from his penalty.
Unlapping by overtaking is not putting your car next to the race leader and expect him to back down. Thats not how the game is played.

And its not just the 'referees decision', the FIA race director also convicted Ocon's actions.
Ocon had no real gain by trying to unlap himself at that point and in that manner. His position and points werent in danger at that moment so he could have picked a better moment where he could actually overtake Verstappen, not forciby putting his car next to Verstappens car.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

The point is that driver has to make lots of these decisions with other drivers, competing for the same spot or lapping/unlapping them.
If you always give in, you'll always lose seconds, eventually affecting all your results.
As a race leader you shouldnt have to deviate from the ideal driving line when a lesser god tries to unlap himself. That Ocon chose a poor moment and was responsible for the crash follows from his penalty.
Unlapping by overtaking is not putting your car next to the race leader and expect him to back down. Thats not how the game is played.

Look at Hamilton’s comments to MV after the race and it says it all IMO. It is one of the most successful drivers in F1 history trying to help another one. MV would be very wise to actually think about what is being said to him.

[GuidoK]

Yes well, Hamilton is not the one that decides who's right and who's not and penalizes drivers.

In hindsight Verstappen's result would have been better if he let Ocon pass, but that doesnt mean Ocon is in his right, and thats what this is about. And the stewards and the FIA race director all point to Ocon as the diver that took the illegal actions on the track, and they are the ones that have a say in this. Not Hamilton. He has his own agenda.

At the point of the crash the race between Verstappen and Hamilton was still full on, Ocon had no right to interfere in that.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Yes well, Hamilton is not the one that decides who's right and who's not and penalizes drivers.

In hindsight Verstappen's result would have been better if he let Ocon pass, but that doesnt mean Ocon is in his right, and thats what this is about. And the stewards and the FIA race director all point to Ocon as the diver that took the illegal actions on the track, and they are the ones that have a say in this. Not Hamilton. He has his own agenda.

Right and wrong matters in what here? Ocon was going to and did finish in who cares land no matter what. MV had a very good chance to win the race and pissed it away trying to hold his ground against a nobody.

How many seconds would’ve been lost if he let Ocon by compared to what happened?

Hamilton does not give penalties or decides who was in the wrong. The guy just wins races and championships. So I repeat that MV would be very wise to listen to him and not his defenders saying he was “right.”

[GuidoK]

The race was still on. If he did let Ocon pass those few seconds could have cost him in the end.
There were still 28 laps to complete and Hamilton was what? 5 or 10 sec behind?
In that scope a few seconds is a long time.
Ocon had no right to interfere on that and he got a penalty for that which shows his actions were wrong.
What Hamilton has to say doesnt matter. He is a rival and has his own agenda. He'd like to see that in the future every time Verstappen is batteling with someone that is a lap behind Verstappen holds in and looses time, that will always be in favour of Hamiltons progression.

And that's why there are rules and Stewards giving penalties.


Who cares if Max is dutch or belgian. He has dual nationality afaik and comes from a little bordervillage. In those parts the difference between one and another nationality is negligible in practice.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

The race was still on. If he did let Ocon pass those few seconds could have cost him in the end.
There were still 28 laps to complete and Hamilton was what? 5 or 10 sec behind?
In that scope a few seconds is a long time.
Ocon had no right to interfere on that and he got a penalty for that which shows his actions were wrong.
What Hamilton has to say doesnt matter. He is a rival and has his own agenda. He'd like to see that in the future every time Verstappen is batteling with someone that is a lap behind Verstappen holds in and looses time, that will always be in favour of Hamiltons progression.

And that's why there are rules and Stewards giving penalties.


Who cares if Max is dutch or belgian. He has dual nationality afaik and comes from a little bordervillage. In those parts the difference between one and another nationality is negligible in practice.

This is getting ridiculous. It’ll be interesting to see who MV listens to. His defenders that stoke his ego with posts like this or the most successful people in his sport that are actually trying to help him.

It is pretty obvious that LH loves what actually happened as it gave him the race. Nobody wants to try and pass or get passed by MV because it usually ends with somebody going off the track. It is also obvious that LH was dumbfounded by MVs actions both on and off the track and offered some simple, but very important advice.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/motors...157d2f61c5c815

[minn19]

Originally Posted by StatenEye

Ocon is a somebody though. He wasn't handed a top F1 car by dad, this is true but when the cars were equal he beat Max up and down the track in F3. The guy finished 8th last year in a sub par car with a team that cant pay their bills. You will see this kid in a top car in the next few years and you'll see him beat MV. Not everyone is born with a silver spoon, some have to get their ass in a kart and grind to the top, others just have to sit in one of the best cars backed by one of the richest teams....

Agreed as a person and from his background of course he is somebody.

I’m just sticking to what is/was relevant to this race. MV most likely was going to win and Ocon was going to finish far back. Ocon still finished where it was predicted and MV lost a great chance for another win due to arrogance.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by StatenEye

some have to get their ass in a kart and grind to the top,

Lol you dont know Verstappen did years of karting?!?
Verstappen and Ocon know eachother from karting
In '10 or '11 they finished 1st and 2nd in the same karting league (wsk euro) where Verstappen easily beat Ocon.

So you're missing some history facts there......

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Who cares if Max is dutch or belgian. He has dual nationality afaik and comes from a little bordervillage. In those parts the difference between one and another nationality is negligible in practice.

M Power Belgium cares and really wants Max, who is regularly referred to as "the Dutchman", to be Belgian...

[Woots]

So I work for RedBull Racing on Daniel Ricciardo car crew so I’m probably a little better in the know/less likely to go off media hype/albeit perhaps slightly biased (Daniels the better driver anyway, and what?)
I do however think that Max with hindsight should’ve just let him by without losing time and then overtaken after Ocon inevitably cooked his tyres in a slower car, regardless though Ocon should’ve have put himself in the situation with the leader whoever it was. It has however got everyone talking about it more than lewis wining it, so who’s the real winner from a bigger point of view....

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by StatenEye

No. He races with a Dutch license and stated that he's Dutch not Belgian becuase he "feels more Dutch". I wouldn't be so proud of him when he denies his Belgian heritage so blatantly.

From his father's mouth.

"For example, in the eyes of some Belgian media, Max is apparently Belgian. To be honest, I think that's a bit cheap. He's been racing for years but up until a few months ago, no one spoke or wrote anything about Max and now they claim he is theirs. And I completely disagree.

It's true that Max has both nationalities, because Sophie and I were married when Max was born. However, he races and always has raced with a Dutch racing license so from that perspective he is more Dutch than Belgian. And that is the way he feels about it too. If the Dutch play a game of football against Belgium, he'll support the Netherlands. And if he turns eighteen and he has to chose, he'll opt for the Dutch nationality."

Yikes

The only Dutch thing about Max is his F1 license (Dutch flag on his car) and that's all about financial speculation because the Belgian taxes are insane !

Which nationality do you have when you are born in Belgium ? And your ID ,passport and driver license is Belgian ?
At 18 , MAX *had to get* his *Belgian driver license* and *driving test* *here in Belgium* But in the Belgian newspapers he said => I don't give a 5H1T about my driver license , because I'm born for the race !

Please read post # 21 => https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1554472

Use Google-translate for this => https://www.demorgen.be/sport/max-ve...belg-bb07b664/

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Poiseuille

well, looks like ///M Power won't be having Esteban over for tea & biscuits any time soon

Sometimes my friend....A picture shows more than 1000 words ! (Ocon thinks the whole situation is/was funny)
Judge for yourself ... And I would punch Ocon on his teeth !