Report: G87 M2 Will Have 420+ HP, S58 Engine, Manual & Auto, RWD Exclusively

pz619 · 03-09-2020, 12:22 PM

6MT and RWD.... noice.

akkando · 03-09-2020, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bimmer456

Yeah low 4s is the same as m340i xdrive with B58 maybe they meant under 4 seconds.

Low 4s is what the current m2 already does out of the box.

dtla1 · 03-09-2020, 12:34 PM

Who is going to be the one to order this paint job? (found in Google results for BMW San Luis Potosi):

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/p/...w408-h544-k-no

F87EVO · 03-09-2020, 12:36 PM

Sad to see the DCT is not an option . Not quite sure the ZF8 will have the same feedback

TheBingoBalls · 03-09-2020, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheoriginalM2

In the M5 yeah , but smaller M cars such as in M2 is a lot more fun with the dct

You may be right, but it's a waste of energy trying to complain when BMW isn't going to change. If the option was no manual and DCT-only vs. manual and 8AT, I think we're all going to take the latter.

Also, in before someone brings up Porsche and their continuous use of PDK, why can't BMW?

F87EVO · 03-09-2020, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

You may be right, but it's a waste of energy trying to complain when BMW isn't going to change. If the option was no manual and DCT-only vs. manual and 8AT, I think we're all going to take the latter.

Also, in before someone brings up Porsche and their continuous use of PDK, why can't BMW?

It maybe the cost , ZF are cheaper and lighter boxes. But torque converter

:

Hegge · 03-09-2020, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Going from the excellent DCT to 8 speed torque converter auto in what is the purest M car of its range.

Abomination.

Agreed with this as no DCT is terrible news in addition to added length and weight dimensions. Also the specifications of this new M2 won't be that impressive when this car launches in three years (2023). The CS or CSL version of the G87 may be good but that won't launch until 2025 or so.

Hegge · 03-09-2020, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheoriginalM2

Sad to see the DCT is not an option . Not quite sure the ZF8 will have the same feedback

It won't. Also smoother shifts in a ZF8 is not a benefit. It means less excitement than a DCT.

raysspl · 03-09-2020, 12:54 PM

Great, now can we have it available as a convertible?

RugbyBro · 03-09-2020, 12:58 PM

Honestly, with ZF8 it comes down to programming. Sure the difference in shift speed is objectively higher for the DCT but it is pretty imperceptible when you're driving hard. When you're not on the gas, that's where I noticed more "smoothing". But I'm sure when they adjust the transmission tuning for the M cars, it will feel like a more special experience than the standard cars.

I get the hesitation around replacing the DCT, but I think a lot of people will be surprised in a good way by the ZF8.

Miko M · 03-09-2020, 12:59 PM

Just focus on dropping the weight down!!!

That's all they should be focusing on.

Miko M · 03-09-2020, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

To those annoyed with the choice of a ZF8, do your part and SAVE THE MANUAL!

Amen

Westway · 03-09-2020, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hegge

Agreed with this as no DCT is terrible news in addition to added length and weight dimensions. Also the specifications of this new M2 won't be that impressive when this car launches in three years (2023). The CS or CSL version of the G87 may be good but that won't launch until 2025 or so.

Seriously, was looking forward to the G87 improving upon the F87. The larger size is uncalled for. The "mild" EV is not what the M2 should represent. Lets hope the DCT is an option to add. Wouldn't mind paying extra for it. Todays news as early as it is...makes me wonder if leaving the F87 will be a mistake.

F87EVO · 03-09-2020, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hegge

It won't. Also smoother shifts in a ZF8 is not a benefit. It means less excitement than a DCT.

Thats true mate . But thanks god manual is still alive

mkoesel · 03-09-2020, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raysspl

Great, now can we have it available as a convertible?

The 2 Series will no longer be available as a convertible after this generation ends, so the M2 must also miss out as a result. Convertibles continue to decline in popularity, and the case cannot be made for another one in the stable. BMW has apparently concluded that the Z4 and 4 Series (including the M4) can effectively cover that segment of the market now.

upsidedownfunnel · 03-09-2020, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Going from the excellent DCT to 8 speed torque converter auto in what is the purest M car of its range.

Abomination.

Simple solution is to just buy the manual.

The ZF 8HP probably gives the best compromise in performance and cost to be able to make the G87 happen at all. The difference in real performance could potentially be zero. Proponents of the DCT seem to only be able to offer that there is less shift lag and how quick the shifts feel. Whether or not that actually makes a difference is performance is debatable. BMW still has to make compromises in feel to make cars affordable. They can't quite charge Porsche prices. Anyway, IMO, an automatic is an automatic.

ice31 · 03-09-2020, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Going from the excellent DCT to 8 speed torque converter auto in what is the purest M car of its range.

Abomination.

Get a manual?

MarkDemma · 03-09-2020, 01:23 PM

But what about the M240i? I fear that it won't have manual or the B58 next go round.

JTO24 · 03-09-2020, 01:25 PM

You'll probably see 3.8 seconds to 60 but not anything crazier without stickier rubber because it'll be traction limited. My guess is that it'll have similar performance numbers to a non-comp F82 M4. Glad the manual is still alive.

upsidedownfunnel · 03-09-2020, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

You may be right, but it's a waste of energy trying to complain when BMW isn't going to change. If the option was no manual and DCT-only vs. manual and 8AT, I think we're all going to take the latter.

Also, in before someone brings up Porsche and their continuous use of PDK, why can't BMW?

A big reason why Porsche must use PDK is because mid/rear engine cars pretty much have to because of packaging. Modern torque converter planetary automatics are too long. This is also way performance front engine FWD cars (or FWD based AWD) use DCTs or manual only as well. Cars like the GTI/Golf R, the Focus RS, Civic Type R, Veloster N, Civic Si, either are DCT or manual only because a torque converter automatic in a transverse configuration is severely compromised for use in a performance car.

Obviously Porsche and other mid engined cars are longitudinal, but they drive the rear wheels so need a transaxle with limited space in the back. Look at the new C8 corvette. They go mid engine so they changed from torque converter auto to DCT. That's why cars like the RS4/5/6, M3/M4/M5/M8 can all use torque converter automatics since they use a front engine RWD layout. Audis are a bit weird but since they have longitudinal engine configurations and it's easier to fit a long transmission in the front of the car, we can just pretend they are RWD cars.

Finally, I'm sure Porsche could fit a ZF 8HP in the back if they really wanted to. But they're Porsche. They charge a lot of money for the little things.

Miko M · 03-09-2020, 01:31 PM

150-200lbs drop in weight, would be icing on the cake

NathObeaN · 03-09-2020, 01:42 PM

Not sure how I feel... some good news certainly, but I was also hoping for:

M xDrive as option (as long as weight wasn't compromised too much)
DCT as option
Hybrid electric at launch (optional), not at some point during 7 year cycle. I would like to see this mainly for instant torque delivery for launch etc. Would be fun.

At this stage I'm thinking I will get a Manual M2... but we'll see.

03-09-2020, 12:22 PM	#23
pz619 Brigadier General 3316 Rep 3,279 Posts Drives: F87 M2C 6MT, Tesla Highland 3P Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: San Diego iTrader: (1)	6MT and RWD.... noice.
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03-09-2020, 12:34 PM	#25
dtla1 Colonel 828 Rep 2,232 Posts Drives: 2011 135i, Space Grey Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Silicon Valley iTrader: (2)	Who is going to be the one to order this paint job? (found in Google results for BMW San Luis Potosi): https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/p/...w408-h544-k-no
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03-09-2020, 12:36 PM	#26
F87EVO Major 4108 Rep 1,244 Posts Drives: BMW F87 M2 CS (6MT) Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Europa iTrader: (0) Garage List 2020 BMW F87 M2 CS [9.96]	Sad to see the DCT is not an option . Not quite sure the ZF8 will have the same feedback __________________ *Sometimes, the simplest recipes, done well, with quality ingredients, are the tastiest,* - evo Car of the Year 2020 2020 BMW F87 M2 CS - 6MT - Misano Blue Metallic
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03-09-2020, 12:54 PM	#31
raysspl Brigadier General 992 Rep 3,000 Posts Drives: walking, bicycle, & bus Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: SoCal iTrader: (0)	Great, now can we have it available as a convertible? __________________ re
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03-09-2020, 12:58 PM	#32
RugbyBro Brigadier General 7276 Rep 3,668 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: SF iTrader: (0)	Honestly, with ZF8 it comes down to programming. Sure the difference in shift speed is objectively higher for the DCT but it is pretty imperceptible when you're driving hard. When you're not on the gas, that's where I noticed more "smoothing". But I'm sure when they adjust the transmission tuning for the M cars, it will feel like a more special experience than the standard cars. I get the hesitation around replacing the DCT, but I think a lot of people will be surprised in a good way by the ZF8. __________________ Current: E92, E46 Prior: F80, F82, F32
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03-09-2020, 12:59 PM	#33
Miko M ///M 6647 Rep 3,683 Posts Drives: 2020 M2C. 2020 X3M Join Date: May 2018 Location: Wisconsin iTrader: (0)	Just focus on dropping the weight down!!! That's all they should be focusing on. __________________ Life is too short...enjoy your life ///M
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03-09-2020, 01:23 PM	#40
MarkDemma Lieutenant 502 Rep 503 Posts Drives: F22 M240i / E46 330Ci ZHP Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: San Francisco iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 BMW M240i [0.00] 2004 BMW 300Ci ZHP [0.00]	But what about the M240i? I fear that it won't have manual or the B58 next go round.
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03-09-2020, 01:25 PM	#41
JTO24 never could compete with Lloyd Braun 5926 Rep 5,632 Posts Drives: 2022 G80 M3 6MT Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: South Jersey iTrader: (8)	You'll probably see 3.8 seconds to 60 but not anything crazier without stickier rubber because it'll be traction limited. My guess is that it'll have similar performance numbers to a non-comp F82 M4. Glad the manual is still alive. __________________ Current: 2025 G80 M3 6MT \| Boston Green \| Tartufo Former: 2022 G80 M3 6MT SG \| KO, 2018 F87 M2 6MT \| AW, 2016 981 Cayman 6MT \| JB, 2015 F80 M3 DCT \| TZB \| GB, 2013 E92 M3 6MT \| MW \| FRB
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03-09-2020, 01:31 PM	#43
Miko M ///M 6647 Rep 3,683 Posts Drives: 2020 M2C. 2020 X3M Join Date: May 2018 Location: Wisconsin iTrader: (0)	150-200lbs drop in weight, would be icing on the cake __________________ Life is too short...enjoy your life ///M
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03-09-2020, 01:42 PM	#44
NathObeaN Captain 1626 Rep 845 Posts Drives: M2 Competition (MY2021) Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	Not sure how I feel... some good news certainly, but I was also hoping for: M xDrive as option (as long as weight wasn't compromised too much) DCT as option Hybrid electric at launch (optional), not at some point during 7 year cycle. I would like to see this mainly for instant torque delivery for launch etc. Would be fun. At this stage I'm thinking I will get a Manual M2... but we'll see.
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