[baege]

Originally Posted by spool twice

G-series M. As much as I love it, after driving a G-series M on a roadcourse/track side-by-side to a G87c, the chassis response fixed everything I disliked about my M4cs and F-series M2/M3/M4 in general.

It reminds me a lot about the E36 and E90/92 in how it handles, you can go over the limit, turn the steering wheel, it the front-end will still respond vs. continuing to wash away in understeer or worse yet, snap oversteer if you let off the gas pedal too fast to control understeering (ehem....F-series would do...)

Or, you can squeeze power around a corner and trust that it will hold the line and not snap back at you.

Or if you go too far with the rear end sliding, you can easily rein it back in.

Weight be damned, the G-series restores how a M cars of past used to handle like in terms of chassis response, and feels like it was built to handle its power/tq to boot.

As a drivers car, I would choose the G. Now I can't wait to see how the CS and CSL models (if ever released) will build upon that.

posts like this one make me realize automotive enthusiasm is on a continuum, in most of my circles I am the "car guy", but when I read a post like this I realize my level of appreciation of cars is not even close to that of some
I can appreciate when taking a car on a curve brings a smile to my face, but that's the extent of my appreciation of handling
not sure if that's a blessing or a curse.
my fave handling of car of all I've had was my M2C because it just felt the most fun on curves and ramps
it wasn't the most capable (my GTS 4.0 has higher limits) but it was the most fun
for some of us that will be the metric that matters in the F87 vs G87 question.

[workerONE]

I made a mockup to see what it would look like without the portruding bulges on the fender and I made the air intakes a little smaller.

[M Hybrid V8]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

F87 looks like a toy car, the face too cute to be taken seriously. I like the athletic, muscular appearance of G87. A proper German muscle car. G87 would be my choice.

That's an interesting opinion because I've always thought the F87 (especially the CS) has the most aggressive & mean looking frontend of all the M cars.

As for muscular appearance, muscles are rounded and smooth while flowing from one to the next. The G87 has square & jagged lines which lead to more of a stealth fighter type look, but I wouldn't call it muscular in the classic sense.

[Yoshuey]

Originally Posted by ///MeraldCity_G82

I mean, if you are going to create a thread like this LOL at least make it a poll.

Done, learnt something new today!

[Yoshuey]

Originally Posted by T_U_D

I do not know why it matters because the F87 has been out of production since June 2021 so this is hindsight. With that said a base G87 is going to offer the level of performance that will potentially be similar to an F87 CS. The base G87 has the S58 vs N55 F87 OG and S55 F87 Comp. The G87 has M adaptive suspension versus none on the F87 OG or Comp. Better tech on the G87. Less tech, more analogue experience in a F87. Better seats in the G87. Don’t get me wrong that F87 was great for it’s time, but something better is always going to come along.

Yeh, I more meant from a design perspective instead of performance / tech etc…

[Yoshuey]

Originally Posted by M3R1

The S58 is really the only thing that is more appealing to me.

- The looks 100% favor the F87 (although I do like the G87)
- The tech for me is overkill and will not age well
- The weight is just too much (I like small and light, the F87 is already on the heavy side for it's size)

Since the title of the thread is hypothetical, who would want a factory installed S58 in an F87?

Yeh I hear ya. I actually don’t mind the looks of the g87… I think it’s a grower for sure.

What I do prefer for the f87… the size, and the manual dials… I hate the whole digital screen thing on new cars, feels more special to have physical dials, more like a traditional watch.

It’s also more human friendly to use, actual buttons vs having to look at a screen to press a button through endless menus.

I think one thing bmw did have right previously- balance between digital screen and physical buttons.

[M3R1]

Originally Posted by Yoshuey

Yeh I hear ya. I actually don’t mind the looks of the g87… I think it’s a grower for sure.

What I do prefer for the f87… the size, and the manual dials… I hate the whole digital screen thing on new cars, feels more special to have physical dials, more like a traditional watch.

It’s also more human friendly to use, actual buttons vs having to look at a screen to press a button through endless menus.

I think one thing bmw did have right previously- balance between digital screen and physical buttons.

My car has all the tech I need. It plays my music, has GPS and as you said all of the driver aids are physical buttons. An analog tach at minimum is a must for me (ie 992).

I also hate touch screens in any car, the finger prints and glare look horrible. My OCD goes crazy... I never touch mine, the Idrive controller is always used.

I have a Jeep GC HEMI as my DD and sometimes the touch screen glitches for a short while and I can't even control my HVAC. While I realize american car vs German, the fact that everything is on the display is a deal breaker for me.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by T_U_D

I do not know why it matters because the F87 has been out of production since June 2021 so this is hindsight. With that said a base G87 is going to offer the level of performance that will potentially be similar to an F87 CS. The base G87 has the S58 vs N55 F87 OG and S55 F87 Comp. The G87 has M adaptive suspension versus none on the F87 OG or Comp. Better tech on the G87. Less tech, more analogue experience in a F87. Better seats in the G87. Don't get me wrong that F87 was great for it's time, but something better is always going to come along.

Yea the G87 is obviously pushing more power and it has some cool technical advancements in handling (See: DSCi) but all that advancements comes at a penalty of +200lbs than its predecessor, which is going to devour rear brakes and tires and word in the streets is the S58 guzzles gas, way more than the average bear, when you driving spritely. So prepare to constantly have to feed this little piggy in order to keep her on the road.

The advantage the F87 originally had is it was relatively inexpensive to purchase and maintain and at 3550lbs, it wasn't too heavy for what it was and it's potential. And let's not downplay that it was also a looker, you didn't have to warm up to that style, it has instant unanimous appeal.

The OG N55 was still peppy and efficient when needed to be. And even when BMW dropped the S55 in the Comp, they binned it via software so heavily, on the low end, it balanced power and efficacy just as well as its predecessor.

That said, BMW nailed the technical specs in the G87 for sure but the exterior is an acquired taste and also I'm still digesting the fact that this vehicle is going to cost a little more for the price of admissions.

[ronin13013]

Who cares so did my s65!! As long as the car delivers.
Cant wait to see lap times.

Originally Posted by Poochie

Yea the G87 is obviously pushing more power and it has some cool technical advancements in handling (See: DSCi) going for it that comes at a penalty of 200lbs, which is going to devour rear brakes and tires and word in the streets is the S58 guzzles gas, way more than the average bear, when you driving spritely. So prepare to constantly have to feed this little piggy in order to keep her on the road.

The advantage the F87 originally had is it was relatively inexpensive to purchase and maintain and at 3550lbs, it wasn't too heavy for what it was and it's potential. Let's not downplay that it was also a looker.

The OG N55 was still peppy and efficient when needed to be. And even when BMW dropped the S55 in the Comp, they binned it via software so heavily, on the low end, it balanced power and efficacy just as well as its predecessor.

That said, BMW nailed the technical specs in the G87 for sure but the exterior is an acquired taste and also I'm still digesting the fact that this vehicle is going to cost a little more for the price of admissions.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by ronin13013

Who cares so did my s65!! As long as the car delivers.
Cant wait to see lap times.

Relax there baller, no one is taking away your opportunity or ride. You'll be out there hemorrhaging your cash in no time.

Just adding a little perspective to the subject at hand.

[M2PDX]

The G87 moves the ball forward. It will perform better (just watch any of the dozen or so driving reviews of the 2 prototypes from this summer). It has updated, modern technology. It has a dramatically better interior. It has a modern -- adaptive -- suspension and an adjustable differential. It has perhaps the best M engine ever. It comes with carbon fiber roof.

I happily own an F87. It's wonderful and fabulous.

But from what I've read and watched, the G87 takes a major leap forward.

Just watch the videos first, and then tell me I'm wrong. ( I'm certain that some of you will, lol).

So, I will be making my choice: G87.

[TrentMeister]

Originally Posted by ///Mcarfan

Looks, sound, size, weight, dash wise F87
If I only cared about power, tech, seats and the newest of the new G87

Sound??

Man.. the s58 is so much more pleasing than the s55 to my ears

[TrentMeister]

Originally Posted by workerONE

I made a mockup to see what it would look like without the portruding bulges on the fender and I made the air intakes a little smaller.

That ain't it

[Ricochet48]

Design-wise F87 (near perfection) > G42 (aggressive & modern) > F22 (conservative, but bland af)> G87 (boxy duplo style) imo.

Performance-wise, the G87 will top the F87, but likely not by as much of the increase of the G42 over the F22.

[bromudez]

At the same price, you'd have to pick G87 but that's a bit of a weird proposition given that a loaded G87 would cost a LOT more

If they both came out today at their actual respective MSRPs I bet some people still pick the F87 as the bargain play as the lighter car and better looks (at least to many)

[CodeSlinger]

Originally Posted by bromudez

At the same price, you'd have to pick G87 but that's a bit of a weird proposition given that a loaded G87 would cost a LOT more

If they both came out today at their actual respective MSRPs I bet some people still pick the F87 as the bargain play as the lighter car and better looks (at least to many)

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the F87 alot closer to the base G87 in terms of options? Like yeah a loaded G87 costs alot more but thats because you couldn't get all the extra crap on a F87 that you can on a G87

[bromudez]

Originally Posted by Roosterdentures

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the F87 alot closer to the base G87 in terms of options? Like yeah a loaded G87 costs alot more but thats because you couldn't get all the extra crap on a F87 that you can on a G87

I think you're right. Not a huge delta in price if you exclude that obscene carbon pack.

Chalk the price delta up to the S58 upgrade and adaptive dampers. It's a good proposition even for someone who thinks the F87 looks better.

[///Mcarfan]

Originally Posted by TrentMeister

Sound??

Man.. the s58 is so much more pleasing than the s55 to my ears

Agreed, but I'm referring to the M-fied N55 in the OG M2 that's better than S58.

[TrentMeister]

Originally Posted by ///Mcarfan

Agreed, but I'm referring to the M-fied N55 in the OG M2 that's better than S58.

Oh yeah,

That thing sounds killer..

Although I think the top end of the s58 does sound cooler.

The n55 gets that extreme hair dryer thing over 5.

But under 5 it's the sound of our people without a doubt

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by Yoshuey

So just curious who’d still pick the f87 (comp/LCI/OG (but not CS)over the g87, if they were given the option to have either in the spec you wanted? I’m ignoring cost here… just think it’s a good way to really find out how much people like the new M2.

Would have to see how it drives first. The M2C was flawed and a lot of issues were fixed with the CS. If the G87 continues that trend, then I guess a G87.

On looks alone, the f87 all day. Traditional nav and dials, traditional look, standard interior.

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by M2PDX

The G87 moves the ball forward. It will perform better (just watch any of the dozen or so driving reviews of the 2 prototypes from this summer). It has updated, modern technology. It has a dramatically better interior. It has a modern -- adaptive -- suspension and an adjustable differential. It has perhaps the best M engine ever. It comes with carbon fiber roof.

I happily own an F87. It's wonderful and fabulous.

But from what I've read and watched, the G87 takes a major leap forward.

Just watch the videos first, and then tell me I'm wrong. ( I'm certain that some of you will, lol).

So, I will be making my choice: G87.

Some prototype reviews said exactly the opposite of this. EVO indicated that all the rowdy small car fun is basically removed from the G87. It's a much more comfortable, larger coupe with more precision handling.

So yeah maybe a leap forward then in refinement, but a leap forward to be a cheaper M4 and no longer a rowdy small wheelbase BMW.

[Rk-d]

F87

I don’t like the weight of the new one. It’s pretty hard to mask physics. I prefer DCT. I like the looks and dimensions of the old one. I like the more basic interior and analog dials.

Yeah, lap times will be better in the new one. Who cares. If they significantly improve steering feel and seating position that might be something. Not sure that’s enough to overcome the other things.

And that’s not to say I would hate the new one - but all things equal I prefer the older one.