bimmerpost/
BMW M2 and 2-Series Coupe
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Today's Posts
home
BIMMERPOST Universal Forums General BMW News and Cars Discussion

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-08-2023, 10:17 AM   #23
forcefed
Colonel
forcefed's Avatar
Canada
3222
Rep
2,459
Posts

Drives: .
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigcheese View Post
Will the new M3CS be 8 or 8.5?
8
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2023, 10:18 AM   #24
Game
------
Game's Avatar
8126
Rep
10,606
Posts

Drives: G80 LCI, G87 (sold)
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Chicago'ish

iTrader: (25)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigcheese View Post
Will the new M3CS be 8 or 8.5?
8

3 series isn't even listed in the first post.
__________________
Appreciate 1
      03-08-2023, 10:21 AM   #25
vasillalov
Mad Linux Guru On The Loose
vasillalov's Avatar
1180
Rep
5,452
Posts

Drives: 2008 335i Sedan, 2023 M3
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2023 BMW M3  [0.00]
2008 335i E90  [8.00]
BMW has had major problems with software engineering for decades. Just look at how complex and convoluted the various dealer service software is: INPA, ISTA-P, ISTA-D, ETK, etc. Why? Likely because of poor tech leadership and direction.

This simply festers and now it's evident in what's happening with the various iDrive versions. It's a total mess. It's very unfortunate.
__________________
Appreciate 5
ASAP10854.00
xIte27.00
      03-08-2023, 10:25 AM   #26
Hoody007
Major
Hoody007's Avatar
United_States
1652
Rep
1,275
Posts

Drives: 335i ZMZ LCI | 850i/6
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Dunwoody, GA & Boston, MA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMaxXHD View Post
While not commenting directly on the new OS’s, I just want to point out how categorically stupid this is from a software management pov and a consumer pov.

For perspective, starting July 2023 according to the document, you will be able to buy current model year, NEW off the production line cars, within BMW’s lineup that includes, idrive 7, idrive 8, or idrive 8.5. If they don’t add any more cars to 8.5 before November 2023, you will be able to buy brand new off the production line cars with any 1 of 4 idrive systems with the inclusion of idrive 9.

This is can only mean 1 thing, you can still buy vehicles brand new that likely won’t be supported long term or even short term software wise. Anyone who just bought an idrive 8 vehicle (assuming OTA/retrofit upgrades are not possible to 8.5), also just got their OTA update support likely decreased dramatically. Not to mention idrive 7 is STILL out there BRAND NEW with the G30 and G01 and will be for likely atleast another year. What a mess.
While I agree with you from a standardization perspective, BMW supports their systems much longer than just about any other manufacturer. My CIC equipped 2011 335i still gets map updates in 2023, and theoretically a 1997 E38 with nav can run 2015 maps in it (with a MK4 nav computer upgrade)- pretty unprecedented.

What concerns me more is the elimination of the controller. By far the best feature as one can navigate menus by memory.
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2023, 10:28 AM   #27
KevM2
Captain
KevM2's Avatar
No_Country
771
Rep
938
Posts

Drives: 2019 F87 M2C, 2023 G87 M2
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: North America

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2023 G87  [10.00]
BMW M2 Competition  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
This is the shitty part about car buying today. Infotainment tech is making cars feel dated that shouldn’t be and will really hurt values down the road. Electric cars will be even worse as you are just buying a piece of tech like a phone. Imagine trying to sell a 5-6 year old electric car that only has 75% charge when solid state batteries arrive.
Not to get too political but this is a brilliant strategy! This will force people more into leasing a car and keep updating them every few years just like an iPhone… and as Klaus Schwab says, we “will own nothing and be happy” 🤦🏻‍♂️
Appreciate 4
Swappy545.00
F32Fleet3904.50
heelsmj359.50
      03-08-2023, 10:46 AM   #28
Bimmerfun82
Brigadier General
Bimmerfun82's Avatar
9346
Rep
4,299
Posts

Drives: iXM60, CLE53AMG, X7 40i
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Atlanta

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
24 Mercedes CLE53 AMG  [9.00]
24 BMW iXM60  [8.75]
24 BMW X7  [9.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
This is the shitty part about car buying today. Infotainment tech is making cars feel dated that shouldn’t be and will really hurt values down the road. Electric cars will be even worse as you are just buying a piece of tech like a phone. Imagine trying to sell a 5-6 year old electric car that only has 75% charge when solid state batteries arrive.
But think of the gas you’ve saved!!!!

The car should be improving all the time like teslas do. It’s a complete paradigm shift away from step-wise hardware changes to always improving software. If you have i8, it should be upgraded to 8.5, yes? If you have a 7, you’re history now.

I don’t get excited about anything bmw is doing to remove ergonomic value for the sake of upselling software subscriptions and making the car a moving computer like tesla. The i4 and iX are cool. But I will be sad to buy one when I eventually do. i7 was basically perfect. But I’m old school.
Appreciate 1
mikekay128.00
      03-08-2023, 10:53 AM   #29
Bestle
First Lieutenant
367
Rep
375
Posts

Drives: F90 M5 LCI, Audi R8
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

With Android Auto and Apple Carplay so prevalent now, how much do you actually interact with the car infotainment system itself? I know I rarely touch it now so idrive 7/8/8.5/9 doesn't make any difference to me.
Appreciate 6
RichF90M5C1621.50
Golfn158.00
heelsmj359.50
      03-08-2023, 10:58 AM   #30
Bimmerfun82
Brigadier General
Bimmerfun82's Avatar
9346
Rep
4,299
Posts

Drives: iXM60, CLE53AMG, X7 40i
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Atlanta

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
24 Mercedes CLE53 AMG  [9.00]
24 BMW iXM60  [8.75]
24 BMW X7  [9.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bestle View Post
With Android Auto and Apple Carplay so prevalent now, how much do you actually interact with the car infotainment system itself? I know I rarely touch it now so idrive 7/8/8.5/9 doesn't make any difference to me.
Now essentially you’re forced to because the hvac controls are in the system. I think that’s the real play here from bmw etc to displace the trends around CarPlay and android auto
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2023, 11:25 AM   #31
phantom701
Private First Class
phantom701's Avatar
83
Rep
157
Posts

Drives: 2024 i4 eDrive40
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Sounds like BMW is still having major difficulties in transitioning to be more sophisticated with software.

Based on some of the information I learned in the last few years comparing traditional car manufacturers to the newer breed, the OGs have a lot of reliance on tier 2, tier 3 suppliers to get their work done. Many of the work might actually include tier 3 suppliers which then the software development is outsourced to a very low cost system integrators who have zero clue about the car and write very crappy software.

When you have multiple tier 3 components that needed to integrate back to to tier 2, tier 1 equipment and to ensure the entire software actually works, that's what you get with all the complexity that you see with BMW.

In order to adopt a more Tesla-like approach, BMW will need to overhaul how cars are designed. It will not be easy and I am predicting that will take at least another 5 years until they come out with the next generation vehicles.

The EVs should be easier but you never know what happens behind the scene. Too much historical baggage with how cars are built traditionally and manufacturers are failing to adapt.
Appreciate 3
volodp204.00
      03-08-2023, 11:26 AM   #32
maverick618
Private First Class
maverick618's Avatar
422
Rep
186
Posts

Drives: BMW G80 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: US

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wavyyyy View Post
Any chance ID8’s will be able to be software updated to ID8.5? They already have the curved display.
Ye this is what I'm interested in knowing as well.

Unless there are hardware restrictions I don't see why an ota update couldn't happen
Appreciate 1
      03-08-2023, 11:28 AM   #33
AHall
Lieutenant Colonel
1059
Rep
1,883
Posts

Drives: 1993 Nissan 240sx
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Frisco, Texas

iTrader: (0)

I have IDrive 7 and do not have a problem with it, but I would like the option on upgrading as new version are released. Given the hardware involved from IDRIVE 7 forward, which seems to be blank screens with a controller, I do not understand why the change from IDrive 7 to 8 would require a hardware change. Sure IDrive 8 has a long curved screen, but this is really two screens connected. So why does BMW not just allow the software update that provides the same functionality. I know the argument of BMW wants you to buy new cars, but not everyone will and it would be a nice plus for the brand.
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2023, 11:31 AM   #34
JK479
Colonel
JK479's Avatar
1247
Rep
2,221
Posts

Drives: I6-> iX
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Anywhere

iTrader: (0)

Here’s an Idea- let the consumer pick- no IDrive and basic radio

Remember when the 3 series let you pick. Idrive and Nav or NO Idrive?

I see e90s and e92’s without the tech and it looks clean and simple.
Appreciate 1
      03-08-2023, 11:33 AM   #35
Bimmerfun82
Brigadier General
Bimmerfun82's Avatar
9346
Rep
4,299
Posts

Drives: iXM60, CLE53AMG, X7 40i
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Atlanta

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
24 Mercedes CLE53 AMG  [9.00]
24 BMW iXM60  [8.75]
24 BMW X7  [9.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHall View Post
I have IDrive 7 and do not have a problem with it, but I would like the option on upgrading as new version are released. Given the hardware involved from IDRIVE 7 forward, which seems to be blank screens with a controller, I do not understand why the change from IDrive 7 to 8 would require a hardware change. Sure IDrive 8 has a long curved screen, but this is really two screens connected. So why does BMW not just allow the software update that provides the same functionality. I know the argument of BMW wants you to buy new cars, but not everyone will and it would be a nice plus for the brand.
You have HVAC controls. So they would be redundant. Highly doubt you have what’s required to OTA to 8/8.5/9
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2023, 11:37 AM   #36
ergarza
Private First Class
104
Rep
149
Posts

Drives: BMW 340 M Sport
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Mexico

iTrader: (0)

Little by little bmw tries to focus the driver on distractions (which look horrible IMO).....they should create an individual package offering ID7...
Appreciate 2
LuckyBrand1767.00
chrisk03154.50
      03-08-2023, 11:41 AM   #37
AP
Major General
AP's Avatar
3122
Rep
5,374
Posts

Drives: G30 M550
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Unless I’ve missed it, have bmw actually stated what they support lifecycle is for any given OS?

I hope that going forward they limit changes to genuine functionality enhancements rather than unnecessary gimmicky items

I do however feel we’ve past that point and personally feel they have dropped the ball as regards ergonomics by dropping physical buttons. Feel they chasing Tesla ( which I also feel is how not to do it from an ergonomic point of view)

Does the consumer expect that once they have bought a car they should expect further enhancements, I suspect we are there.

I would certainly expect bmw to address any bugs but as I work in IT can attest that the. Pre you keep changing and with aggressive deadlines, the quality will suffer and bugs will be present.
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2023, 11:53 AM   #38
michael.bramblett
Enlisted Member
No_Country
15
Rep
46
Posts

Drives: G20
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Colorado Springs

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 BMW 330i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMaxXHD View Post
While not commenting directly on the new OS’s, I just want to point out how categorically stupid this is from a software management pov and a consumer pov.

For perspective, starting July 2023 according to the document, you will be able to buy current model year, NEW off the production line cars, within BMW’s lineup that includes, idrive 7, idrive 8, or idrive 8.5. If they don’t add any more cars to 8.5 before November 2023, you will be able to buy brand new off the production line cars with any 1 of 4 idrive systems with the inclusion of idrive 9.

This is can only mean 1 thing, you can still buy vehicles brand new that likely won’t be supported long term or even short term software wise. Anyone who just bought an idrive 8 vehicle (assuming OTA/retrofit upgrades are not possible to 8.5), also just got their OTA update support likely decreased dramatically. Not to mention idrive 7 is STILL out there BRAND NEW with the G30 and G01 and will be for likely atleast another year. What a mess.
They explained it a while back, I can’t find the article but will link it when I do. But they always introduce the newest tech changes to lower models and Europe first for a couple of years before expanding it to higher models and USA. Notably I drive 9 as it goes away with buttons and controller completely. 8.5 is being introduced as its Linux based still, so can use the controller knob, but with the graphics resembling idrive 9 as much as Linux can. 8.5 is to create more uniformity as far as the visual aspect to idrive 9, while not upsetting the higher end models/older class of drivers who prefer controller knobs over touch screens. As for idrive 7-8, no idea and never found a true answer on why the jump shift, etc. as for me? I HATE touchscreens in cars and not just because of the constant cleaning. 95% why I came back to a BMW was because of idrive and the controller as I don’t use CarPlay, shocking as I’m not even 30 I know, and much prefer traffic and nav from BMW than CarPlay or any other manufacture’s version.
Appreciate 3
LuckyBrand1767.00
2srsman93.00
lfdal541245.00
      03-08-2023, 12:03 PM   #39
B///MWGuy
Lieutenant
279
Rep
541
Posts

Drives: 2019 X5 xDrive40i
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I think iDrive 9 will be a game changer.
There will be a community of people who will be attempting to root and modify the system since it is based on Android.
That would essentially make the OS updatable and expand features even if BMW officially dont support it.
I think it might be worth waiting for the 9
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2023, 12:04 PM   #40
cfm56d7b
Lieutenant General
United_States
6477
Rep
10,726
Posts

Drives: 2017 440i Gran Coupe & 2015 X5
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (2)

The integration of hardware and software in cars has always been very complex and it takes a long time to improve the process.

Hardware: typically requires longer planning, design, and manufacturing cycles. The software innovation moves at a much faster speed

Software: new features demanded by the the market often require new hardware - which triggers yet another planning, design, and manufacturing cycle. Cars caught un the middle of this cycle are often left behind. It is what is.

Engineering process / supplier integration / testing: the most complex part. Not all software is created equal not all software is written by BMW. The best software engineers will still have difficulties executing a poor design. Even the best design may not be executed as intended if the team is new or lacks the experience working on specific problems.

Security: with integration of cellular connectivity and multiple hosts (driver app, BMW in-country and global HQ servers, authorized apps running on the curved display, and many more) and closer integration with various control units, code security is even more important and not discussed for obvious reasons. Code security is being used to describe a much larger scope. For example, is the incoming request arriving from a valid host?

In short, if the driver doesn't see a polite (yet alarming) "blue screen of demise" then progress can be declared.

This is a _long_ journey. Good example is Apple's IOS now at iteration 16.
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2023, 12:05 PM   #41
ChrisM4
Major
ChrisM4's Avatar
Canada
2075
Rep
1,218
Posts

Drives: 2024 M4 Comp X-Drive
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasistato View Post
Should I regret gettin id7?

Hoping they continue to push updates until warranty expires at least..
No you shouldn’t regret it.

It’s the peak of BMW UI/UX…I’m thankful every day that my ‘22 M3 has ID7…
__________________
2024 Dravit Grey M4 Competition X-Drive
Appreciate 3
LuckyBrand1767.00
chrisk03154.50
vj1233816.50
      03-08-2023, 12:24 PM   #42
AHall
Lieutenant Colonel
1059
Rep
1,883
Posts

Drives: 1993 Nissan 240sx
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Frisco, Texas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82 View Post
You have HVAC controls. So they would be redundant. Highly doubt you have what’s required to OTA to 8/8.5/9
I could live with redundancy. HVAC can be controlled via both panel and IDrive in IDrive 7 now I believe. Updates don’t have to be OTA. I wouldn’t mind the update occurring during a service appointment. I am sure we can come up with a million obstacle and what I suggest will probably never happen. I think the reason has more to do with BMW wanting to sell cars with the newest IDrive as opposed to designing a a system that can be updated with each version.
Appreciate 1
LuckyBrand1767.00
      03-08-2023, 12:29 PM   #43
kjoseph270
Second Lieutenant
46
Rep
223
Posts

Drives: '24 X5 XDrive 40i MSport
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Melbourne, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick618 View Post
Ye this is what I'm interested in knowing as well.

Unless there are hardware restrictions I don't see why an ota update couldn't happen
This. As a prospective buyer of the G05 LCI, it seems silly that with a production start of April the switchover to 8.5 is in June. So now I wait 2-3 months to get the latest i-drive? Hoping it's just an over-air update.
__________________

regretful former owner '88 E28 M5
'12 MG F30 328i
'15 CB F25 X3 35i
'19 Golf R Mk7.5
Appreciate 1
      03-08-2023, 12:43 PM   #44
diablo2112
2024 M440i GC (G26)
285
Rep
511
Posts

Drives: 2024 M440i Gran Coupe
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: USA

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by michael.bramblett View Post
I HATE touchscreens in cars and not just because of the constant cleaning. 95% why I came back to a BMW was because of idrive and the controller as I don’t use CarPlay
Me, too. The reason I came back to BMW was the controller-based interface. Most important was the instant map zoom by turning the controller. I use this constantly. My prior Toyota required you hit a + or - button on screen. Way, way more complex and you had to take your eyes off the road. I adore the iDrive controller, and its elimination will nearly certainly widen my search for a replacement to other brands such as Audi that aren't all-in on this 100% touchscreen nonsense.
Appreciate 5
Post Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:58 AM.




g87
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST