[VIERsr]

The Giulia, Quadrifoglio included, is quite reliable actually, the reliability issue is more a stereotype coming from older models.
Some can have problems, of course, but just like a BMW or any other car.
The difference is: when a BMW breaks down 'it can happen', when an Alfa breaks down 'sure, it's an Alfa'.

[LCDRJohn]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

The Giulia, Quadrifoglio included, is quite reliable actually, the reliability issue is more a stereotype coming from older models.
Some can have problems, of course, but just like a BMW or any other car.
The difference is: when a BMW breaks down 'it can happen', when an Alfa breaks down 'sure, it's an Alfa'.

https://www.businessinsider.com/best...us-2023-2?op=1

Just to counter-note, the top 5 brands on that study have BMW at the top, and the lowest 5 brands include Alfa, Jaguar and Land rover.

Consumer reports is probably the only actual almost-scientific metric of reliability in the world, besides JD Power (which is sketchy). I am sure that Lotus and Mclaren, if there were enough of them for a sample, would be on the bottom of the list too.
Mclaren forum members said the same things: "other cars have problems too!" And they are saying the same on the Lotus forums as we speak, as their cars crumble to dust.. I'll pass on anything british or italian, at least until proven otherwise.
But I agree that BMW needs to copy the suspension and steering of the Alfa. Why they don't. I'll never know!

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by LCDRJohn

A slight OT thought I had.

I have money down on a Lotus Emira, with a probable delivery date after the next ice-age. So I sauntered over to their forums and has some small PTSD eruptions.

It brought back all of my Mclaren horrors. It's like they copied their playbook: Half-finished cars, limp mode, paint drips, rust, missing bolts, water leaks, panels falling off, never ending electrical woes, wipers that don't work, and on and on. My 570 had all of that and more. They were a cool company and bought it back, but only after a year of: 1 day of great driving, followed by 2 months in the shop.

The issue with the Guilia, is that it has the exotic car problems but ain't no exotic. When they would truck my 570 away, I could still take my M3 to work. What happens when your daily is a POS? And it may have lots of good attributes, but my pals who tried italian cars, all wound up chewing dirt.

The first time you miss work, stuck on a back street in some bad neighborhood, with the dash-alert reading "Carro no functione, shoulda boughta de porscha", you'll feel the burn, LOL!

This is a more nuanced version of what I said. And yes, if you can, get a Porsche lol.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by LCDRJohn

https://www.businessinsider.com/best...us-2023-2?op=1

Just to counter-note, the top 5 brands on that study have BMW at the top, and the lowest 5 brands include Alfa, Jaguar and Land rover.

Consumer reports is probably the only actual almost-scientific metric of reliability in the world, besides JD Power (which is sketchy). I am sure that Lotus and Mclaren, if there were enough of them for a sample, would be on the bottom of the list too.
Mclaren forum members said the same things: "other cars have problems too!" And they are saying the same on the Lotus forums as we speak, as their cars crumble to dust.. I'll pass on anything british or italian, at least until proven otherwise.
But I agree that BMW needs to copy the suspension and steering of the Alfa. Why they don't. I'll never know!

Consumer Reports ranked brands first by determining a road-test score using braking, handling, comfort, convenience, and fuel economy evaluations. Each brand was then given an overall score that combined the road test score, assessments from reliability and satisfaction surveys, and safety results.

This is an overall ranking based on several factors, not a reliability ranking.
The Giulia has not received any major recalls nor have any serious reliability problems ever surfaced, especially the mechanics are very robust.
Most of the problems are due to poor quality components and assembly and poor infotainment/technology.
Shall we talk about Bmw N54 or N47? This is what I call unreliable.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

Shall we talk about Bmw N54 or N47? This is what I call unreliable.

Of course, if we do, we must also remember those are from decades ago, and BMW learned from them. The followups to those motors were much improved. Heck, I drive an N55 to this day.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Of course, if we do, we must also remember those are from decades ago, and BMW learned from them. The followups to those motors were much improved. Heck, I drive an N55 to this day.

This should also apply to other brands then.
There is no evidence of reliability problems with the Giulia as in the past, only the poor quality and obsolete technology remains from then, but the mechanics are robust.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

This should also apply to other brands then.
There is no evidence of reliability problems with the Giulia as in the past, only the poor quality and obsolete technology remains from then, but the mechanics are robust.

I've never owned a QV, but I get the strong impression from these posts that they aren't problems of decades past. Especially the dealer problems.

But... I don't have a dog in this fight, the more good cars out there, the better, I say.

[02M3ForMe]

The Alfa and G8x are worlds apart on reliability and dealer network.

I test drove multiple QVs and enjoyed the car. I'm impressed that it's as great as it is given that it's a product circa 2015-2016. However, 3 of 4 test cars threw codes relating to the throttle. One car could not be driven on the first visit because of "misfires".

The car has fast steering, which gives it an apparent agility akin to short-wheelbase cars and increases the fun factor. I tried the car on different tires and it's noticeably different on the factory super-sticky PZero Corsa vs other tires like PS4S. On the more pedestrian tires, I felt the car struggled to keep up with the steering. My impression was that the steering calibration is akin to turning your mouse pointer speed to the max; yes, it's easier to quickly steer the car, but it doesn't mean the car is actually more nimble or even nimble at all. I think the combo of super-short steering ratio combined with the super-sticky OEM tires is an interesting approach to getting a midsize sedan to feel almost Cayman-like with tech from 8 years ago. The illusion started to fade for me when driving the car very hard or on not-track tires.

Apparently, they initially tried a similar approach with the brakes. The 2017 I drove was quite hard to drive smoothly because going anywhere near the brake pedal with a foot still calibrated for 'normal' cars practically caused a panic stop every time. Seemed like 10% pedal mapped to 60% braking. I was glad to see that they fixed that with later model years.

The QVs I drove offered insufficient drive configuration. There were 4 driving modes, each one representing a fixed complete config of various driving parameters. I couldn't find a way to independently configure engine, chassis, etc. as I can in the G8x. The mode that gives you the best exhaust note, Race, forced traction control off in the cars I drove. Also, it seemed power was being pulled pretty aggressively in lower gears if not in Race (didn't appear to be a TC thing).

I really liked the big aluminum paddles and the ZF8 tune. Upshifting aggressively yielded whip-cracks from the exhaust that I found quite enjoyable.

All things considered, the QV drives well - much better than the F80 that came out at a similar time, and it was more capable than the F87 and M2C. I understand the love for the Alfa, especially from folks who were into it years ago when it clearly offered the best performance and driving experience in the segment. And if you were one of those that got ~25% off a new one a couple of years ago, it totally makes sense to feel that the car is exceptionally under-appreciated and want to evangelize the diamond in the rough everyone's missing.

I don't think it's in a different performance class than the G87. I think the G87 is pretty on par with it, especially with the ZF8. Hustling it around feels just as fun to me; I put the G87 in Sport Plus engine and chassis and Comfort steering and brakes and it's awesome.

I believe the QV's fast steering is a party trick that will stand the test of time and will probably feel better to most drivers, just as a fast mouse pointer with the speed sliders turned up generally feels better than a slower one that you have to manually move fast with your own hand and wrist. I recall getting back in my G82 to retrace the test drive route after one QV test drive and preferring the faster QV steering despite there being no actual performance advantage (I was moving through the sections just as fast in the G82, if not faster). I was very close to making the trade at that time. Then a warning light came on ...

I believe they could've taken significant share from the M3 last gen if they went all-in and offered an unreasonably long warranty, like the Korean brands did when they broke into the market. 10 years/100,000 miles with guaranteed loaners and I'm a buyer. In 2023, with the much-improved G8x and an Alfa dealer network that seems to be shrinking instead of expanding, I believe that window is nearly closed.

[wj100]

I went from an F82 to a 2018 Giulia QV and, to me, the way the QV drove was superior in every way. And that's coming from a long time BMW fan boy with a G87 scheduled for production.

Tech and fit and finish weren't up to BMW standards, but the chassis/engine combo made up for those shortcomings in spades... Or clovers. It just feels light and athletic in a way modern BMW's don't.

Also, maybe I was just lucky, but in my 3+ years of ownership, I had exactly zero reliability issues. That said, I got out of it before the warranty was up because I'm not a lunatic.

[KC87ZB]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

This is an overall ranking based on several factors, not a reliability ranking.
The Giulia has not received any major recalls nor have any serious reliability problems ever surfaced, especially the mechanics are very robust.
Most of the problems are due to poor quality components and assembly and poor infotainment/technology.
Shall we talk about Bmw N54 or N47? This is what I call unreliable.

The minimum of recalls is due to the minimum of vehicles on the road. There are a lot of "campaigns" to fix things. Depending on the age. The 2017 and 2018 had lots of ECU issues and infotainment issues; they have an oil starvation issue with a bad oil pump; QV's suffer from limp mode issues around throttle body sensors (dual ecu's, one on each bank of 3 - sound fun) and there are more.

None of these are big issues and honestly most are what I would expect from such a new car/ECU/software when it came out.

Personally, I gave back my Giulia because I knew the long term ownership experience would be an issue - hell, I couldn't even reset the service interval reminder without going to the dealer.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by KC87ZB

The minimum of recalls is due to the minimum of vehicles on the road. There are a lot of "campaigns" to fix things. Depending on the age. The 2017 and 2018 had lots of ECU issues and infotainment issues; they have an oil starvation issue with a bad oil pump; QV's suffer from limp mode issues around throttle body sensors (dual ecu's, one on each bank of 3 - sound fun) and there are more.

None of these are big issues and honestly most are what I would expect from such a new car/ECU/software when it came out.

Personally, I gave back my Giulia because I knew the long term ownership experience would be an issue - hell, I couldn't even reset the service interval reminder without going to the dealer.

Nothing you can't experience on any other car, I had an infotainment problem on my M2 (completely dead as soon as I moved to another country - very funny - fixed under warranty), I was stranded with the 1M due to an electronic problem, the old M5 had a known throttle body sensor problem, not to mention all the Vanos issues since decades, and so on. Perhaps on a BMW this is acceptable, whereas on an Alfa for some reason it is not and make it an unreliable car.

[KC87ZB]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

Nothing you can't experience on any other car, I had an infotainment problem on my M2 (completely dead as soon as I moved to another country - very funny - fixed under warranty), I was stranded with the 1M due to an electronic problem, the old M5 had a known throttle body sensor problem, not to mention all the Vanos issues since decades, and so on. Perhaps on a BMW this is acceptable, whereas on an Alfa for some reason it is not and make it an unreliable car.

We will have to agree to disagree. I don’t think the Alfa sales numbers allow you to draw any kind of parallel to a more pervasive brand as BMW.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by KC87ZB

We will have to agree to disagree. I don’t think the Alfa sales numbers allow you to draw any kind of parallel to a more pervasive brand as BMW.

People tend to forget that there are also other markets outside the US, in some European markets some Alfas (some of which never imported into the US, and in my opinion horrible cars) equalled or sometimes even exceeded Bmw's sales. And hard to believe, they were all quite reliable (albeit with poor build quality and technologically far behind).

[truekumar]

Anyone still considering between these two?? The G87 is better is most aspects, but the looks of the Gulia are to die for! Plus the MY24/25 is slighter nicer in the interior compared to the pre facelift. Hmmmmm…

[DSTR]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

They are not in the same class, the Giulia's competitor is the M3.
That being said, the Giulia Q is a great car to drive (I'd put it above the M3 in terms of pure driving), but rubbish in terms of everything else, it's a very dated car and - as far as I know - the Quadrifoglio hasn't received the MY24 updates yet (and who knows if, what and when).
It was a good car when it came out, but as is always the case with Alfa, it's aged very badly and hasn't received any significant updates.
Plus, add the terrible sales and service network and the extremely high depreciation.

OP this post ends the debate LOL. Looks like an easy decision to make!

[Aramis1919]

Jeremy Clarkson famously said...."every man should own an Alfa Romeo at some point in his life"

I'd take the Alfa.

[truekumar]

Originally Posted by DSTR

OP this post ends the debate LOL. Looks like an easy decision to make!

Really? The updated facelift with updated tech is on its way to showrooms as we speak and I’m sure already opened up for orders?

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/alfa-romeo/giulia/360594/new-alfa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio-2023-facelift-review

[truekumar]

Originally Posted by Aramis1919

Jeremy Clarkson famously said...."every man should own an Alfa Romeo at some point in his life"

I'd take the Alfa.

I’m definitely tempted by the looks and the engine! Pure Italian soul! Not sure about the reliability and interior just yet though.

[truekumar]

Not sure why others are not seriously comparing these two? Apart from the difference of number of doors, they are very similar in terms of cost and power etc..

[LCDRJohn]

My biggest concern on Gulia is the weight!

After you add the factory's "Mobility Option" (Option Code: Towtruck-1), it weighs like 6 tons!

Seems BMW does not need this, which seems to be a comparative advantage....

[truekumar]

Originally Posted by LCDRJohn

My biggest concern on Gulia is the weight!

After you add the factory's "Mobility Option" (Option Code: Towtruck-1), it weighs like 6 tons!

Seems BMW does not need this, which seems to be a comparative advantage....

Do you not think they’ve improved the reliability of these vehicle by now? With it being such an aged platform?

I just watched this video where someone is considering going back to a QV from a G80 M3:


https://youtu.be/Xx4TZgUZfjg?si=ZSSN4cPP2L5DuwHe

[truekumar]

I think Alfa now offer a 5 year extended warranty right?