[c1pher]

Originally Posted by NathObeaN

I do find it funny that people seem to think that every single car these days is ‘underrated’. Ever considered the testing methodology/equipment differs from BMW official lab tests vs some random garage with a dyno?

It is only about 5% difference so could be any number of factors like dyno, environmental conditions etc. maybe even an elevation difference in Bavaria lol.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Here’s an S65. I see a lot of similarities, which I think is a good thing. But the S65 was also hated for having too little torque down low.
Throttle House rejoice…

Love s65. Give them all to me!
More interesting is back to back same Dyno with a g80 or g82 to see the Delta if any. If I recall this has been done and it was minor between a base mt model and a m2 g87.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by akkando

Love s65. Give them all to me!
More interesting is back to back same Dyno with a g80 or g82 to see the Delta if any. If I recall this has been done and it was minor between a base mt model and a m2 g87.

IIRC if you looked at historical charts, it was a flat torque curve for both at 406 ft-lb. The only real diff was that the torque dropped off later at the high end in the G8x, giving you just a tad more peak HP.

If that's correct, in practical terms there's very little difference at all, really only if you are in the habit of bouncing off your rev limiter. Or you are in 4th gear or higher, some place where you'll spend more than an instant at > 6800 RPM.

Base G8x of course. Not counting the S58s that exceed 406 ft-lb.

[n55david]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Reads as “*SAE Correction*”, meaning they are predicting crank horsepower from measuring wheel horsepower.

What gear was used to run?

That's not what sae correction means btw

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by n55david

That's not what sae correction means btw

Thanks for corroborating my post #4.

[Kevin_The_Clean1]

Originally Posted by Remonster

The reason every modern BMW seems to be underrated when dyno tested is because the modern ECUs (2011 N55 and newer) are already so good at adjusting for atmospheric conditions (weather, altitude, etc.) so you’re taking an engine which barely loses any performance in various conditions and then adding “atmospheric correction” on top of that.

I'm glad my 2011 E90 335i has the N55 then. Had no idea this is when the ECU on these cars got much more robust & sharp at making adjustments on the fly. That's really neat & highly beneficial.

[DukeofAlexandria]

So BMW doing exaclty what BMW has done for the last 20ish years?

…. 🙄

-Duke

[DukeofAlexandria]

Originally Posted by M2siast

I still think it’s cool this car has 500+ hp…

Since when was 477.68 over 500+ whp?

-Duke

[Tallest]

Its funny how everyone was up in arms about car companies cheating emissions (by everyone I mean regulators) and noone cares cars output more than officially claimed. I never understood how thats accepted.

And I get it, its nice to sell a car that turns out to have more power and customer is happier, or how markets in Europe in some cases tax you on horsepower, and how insurance also taxes you on horsepower so you want them stated lower... but how is it legal?

Pretty funny. Im never surprised cars output more on dyno than reported.

Perhaps it is just a case of high performance cars. Some average Toyota Corolla will output exactly as claimed, so there is nothing to worry for regulators.

[DukeofAlexandria]

Originally Posted by M2siast

I didn’t say whp.

That’s the only thing that matters. Everything else is just a dick measuring contest.

-Duke

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by Tallest

Its funny how everyone was up in arms about car companies cheating emissions (by everyone I mean regulators) and noone cares cars output more than officially claimed. I never understood how thats accepted.

Nothing alike at all.

Dieselgate was manufactures explicity adding defeat mechanisms that detected they were being tested, and changing emissions. Their motors emitted more NOX than permitted, and they knowingly tried to hide it by cheating.

Horsepower tax is calculated by the dimensions of the engine cylinders, not by the actual HP. So it doesn't matter what BMW reports, neither to buyers or regulators.

[Panscan340]

Originally Posted by DukeofAlexandria

That’s the only thing that matters. Everything else is just a dick measuring contest.

-Duke

Haven’t heard any car company advertise a car based on its wheel horsepower

[dezzracer]

BMW infuses big power into every model they make but doesn’t brag much about it. In magazine comparison tests you know in advance the testers are going to love the motor and power and hate the steering feel. Conclusion: BMW builds great motors.

[Blue Angel]

I forgot who it was, but I remember seeing a fairly popular car reviewer who said if the car put less than advertised down to the wheels the company was lying and giving you less than you paid for.

He has a point. If the engine makes 500hp but only gets 300 to the tires, do you really have a 500hp car?

[vcx]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Horsepower tax is calculated by the dimensions of the engine cylinders, not by the actual HP. So it doesn't matter what BMW reports, neither to buyers or regulators.

Depends on the country, in many places, HP directly influence the taxes, hence the underrated numbers adverstised.

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by vcx

Depends on the country, in many places, HP directly influence the taxes, hence the underrated numbers adverstised.

276 hp was the published figure for many cars in Japan for a long time, until 2004.

[LCDRJohn]

and remember in years gone by, Mazda got caught OVER-representing HP and had to buy the cars back, or the owners take a settlement.

My friend had them buy his RX-8 back at full sale price. I can't imagine Mazda did well on the deal. Google it, it was a big scandal back in the day.

Probably a win-win to understate the power. It set up internet-lore, and an owner is never angry to get a little more than they paid for. It also leaves a margin for gas types, and manufacturing and testing variables.

[Emme2]

Originally Posted by LCDRJohn

and remember in years gone by, Mazda got caught OVER-representing HP and had to buy the cars back, or the owners take a settlement.

My friend had them buy his RX-8 back at full sale price. I can't imagine Mazda did well on the deal. Google it, it was a big scandal back in the day.

Probably a win-win to understate the power. It set up internet-lore, and an owner is never angry to get a little more than they paid for. It also leaves a margin for gas types, and manufacturing and testing variables.

It was not a big scandal and it happened only in the USA, the land of litigation.

The Japanese act/ed to safeguard their reputation (an important cultural mantra for them). The power they were declaring was at the crank and correct depending on market and standard used. People that bought the RX8, drove and liked them. Then the golden opportunity came to sell them back when the opportunity/excuse presented itself to offload a not so powerful sportscar.

So, don't be a fanboi confusing or conflating situations.

Besides, the dyno results here would likely be different on another dyno. And the Germans are renowned for under-declaring (hello Porsche). Their homologation and test protocols in multi-million dollar labs are far more stringent than those at a garage near you, around the corner.

[DukeofAlexandria]

Originally Posted by Panscan340

Haven’t heard any car company advertise a car based on its wheel horsepower

Which is exaclty my point; we’ve known what this post is proving for literal decades….

-Duke

[Sethhboii]

Originally Posted by DukeofAlexandria

Which is exaclty my point; we’ve known what this post is proving for literal decades….

-Duke

Thanks Duke

-Seth

[stylinexpat]

Originally Posted by TheGroundRoof

Bmw underates hp to provide advertised hp on bad fuel

California fuel

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

These numbers don't surprise.

The E90 335i was rated as 300HP and routinely posted greater than 325HP at the wheels.

BMW will fudge numbers down if they are too close to the next model up.

The E90 335i definitely was not routinely posting 325whp stock.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275207

Modern BMW turbo cars have generally been underrated, but the delta between advertised and observed has never been bigger than it is now with G8x S58s. We're talking ~50whp more than anticipated.