[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by DSTR

Gino SPA. He has nice facilities and an amazing display of significant Rally cars for sale at his Lotus shop. I was given a nice tour of it when considering buying an Evora from him. He is a reasonable dealer and easy to work with.

Thank you for posting this. Would be appropriate for a keen Swiss enthusiast to notice his fine time piece lol

I'm Italian, but I am doing my best to integrate

Originally Posted by Tallest

The important takeaways here! Just a regular steel black dial daytona here, 20k all day long.

Congratulations if you can get it new before 2030 without a mark-up of at least 100%

[AndreM2]

BMW compensates the weight with wider tires.

Put the same wide tires on the m2cs and it is faster. More weight always kills the fun on track.

1700kg will never be a good car on track. It will go thru tires and brakes in no time.

People try to find youtube movies where the 1700kg m2 wins to get a good a feeling that they bought the car.
I have had lots of M cars. The best M car for fun on track was the m3 CSL and the 1M Coupe. Analog pure drivers cars. Small en nimble. Every other BMW with more weight was less fun! I stopped buying new BMW M cars for fun after the M2c. Now i sold the M2c also and the GT4RS is the replacement and keep it next to my 1m coupe. I wish i still had my M3 CSL. 1700 KG is just to much!

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by AndreM2

BMW compensates the weight with wider tires.

Put the same wide tires on the m2cs and it is faster. More weight always kills the fun on track.

1700kg will never be a good car on track. It will go thru tires and brakes in no time.

People try to find youtube movies where the 1700kg m2 wins to get a good a feeling that they bought the car.
I have had lots of M cars. The best M car for fun on track was the m3 CSL and the 1M Coupe. Analog pure drivers cars. Small en nimble. Every other BMW with more weight was less fun! I stopped buying new BMW M cars for fun after the M2c. Now i sold the M2c also and the GT4RS is the replacement and keep it next to my 1m coupe. I wish i still had my M3 CSL. 1700 KG is just to much!

This is a very simplistic and trivial explanation, it is not just about tire width.
The M3/4 G80/2 had a very small increase in tire width over the previous generation (from 265/285 to 275/285), but the improvement is huge, despite the weight increase.
It's more a matter of chassis rigidity, suspension tuning, general set-up and balancing of all the components.
If you put bigger tires on an M2 F87 there is no evidence that it can perform as well as the G87, or how the chassis and suspension would handle the increase in grip, the only thing that is certain is that there is no room for 275 tires at the front.
But people should stop talking about cars they have never driven.
The cars you mention, while very fun (I had the 1M and sold it with no regrets), by today's standards would just be very slow cars with little grip, and the high speed stability absolutely poor, that's all.

[AndreM2]

Most people want grip and stability. If you want to drive on rails you can always take the train!

1987 movie old but still modern.

Working hard to keep the car on track.

The 1m is a handful because of shorter wheel base. The car doesn’t get boring. You need to be on top of youre game always.

I also own a GR yaris and Gr86 cheap cars compared to M2 and Porsches. But my word these are drivers cars on track and back roads. These cars have no status like expensive cars and also have no high horsepowers but i like them very much because of the weight and handling.

As you all say for daily use an M2 is fine.

But for fun on back roads and track there are better choices.

Yes i have test driven the new M2 but could not bring myself into buying one.

[cstavaru]

I don't care that the new M2 is faster when I know that people will have to see me driving it. It looks horrible - but this is the case with most new BMWs.

[Davil]

A 12 year old tyre that the car was not designed for. When I had them on my old M2C I affectionately referred to them as the slippery sports. Lots of fun but you are going nowhere fast, but with a smile. The Cup 2 Connect star spec is the correct choice for the CS. It’s not a track tyre in any way but it’s the one the car works best with.

Anyhow. They are both great cars. The G series in all forms is capability over fun. Go with what floats your boat. Just don’t get arrested.

[drlukas]

Gino Alessandro what else? A giant Italian car dealer but first a real enthusiast. Gentleman Rally driver, entrepreneur. Good Job Ale!

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by AndreM2

Most people want grip and stability. If you want to drive on rails you can always take the train!

1987 movie old but still modern.

Working hard to keep the car on track.

The 1m is a handful because of shorter wheel base. The car doesn’t get boring. You need to be on top of youre game always.

I also own a GR yaris and Gr86 cheap cars compared to M2 and Porsches. But my word these are drivers cars on track and back roads. These cars have no status like expensive cars and also have no high horsepowers but i like them very much because of the weight and handling.

As you all say for daily use an M2 is fine.

But for fun on back roads and track there are better choices.

Yes i have test driven the new M2 but could not bring myself into buying one.

Wait a minute, modern cars deliver power and speed that require a capable chassis to handle (and be safe).
In my opinion, the 1M was not capable of handling the power (just like the Z3/4M), the chassis was simply too poor for such an engine, and with a sports car level nowadays (~500hp) such a car would be the number one cause of death on the road. The 1M looks fast, but it's slower than a current M240i, to give you the idea.
We all want fun and speed, but it is also important to get home alive.
The GR86 you mentioned is a lot of fun, but it's not a fast car, it's an easy car to get sideways because of its poor grip, I'm not sure that's a good thing, but that's just my opinion.
I call it progress, we are going faster, safer, with more comfort and technology, it's not that bad.
But I agree that some 'pure' sensations have been lost, however what we have gained, in my opinion, is much more than what we have lost, considering that they are road cars.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by werdn

I thought the "F generation" M cars were "nervous" in general. When I drove them, they felt like too much throttle too quickly then the rear will break loose. This is obviously a dramatic difference than I was used to in the last E generation with little/no torque and power up very high (8000rpm).

I think the f8x competition cars corrected this? But the m5 was a bit spikey compared to e60

My 135is was definitely this way. It did give me that sense of excitement but after a while, I came to realize the power was maybe too much for the chassis. I think this is partially why the new M2 is kind of a mini M4, wider and longer wheelbase to give it better overall stability. With that said, I do miss my 1 series and it’s the reason I came back to get an M2.

[ChrisM4]

Originally Posted by werdn

I thought the "F generation" M cars were "nervous" in general. When I drove them, they felt like too much throttle too quickly then the rear will break loose. This is obviously a dramatic difference than I was used to in the last E generation with little/no torque and power up very high (8000rpm).

I think the f8x competition cars corrected this? But the m5 was a bit spikey compared to e60

They are more nervous…I owned a prev gen M2 and a G82 and now a G80. The G series chassis tuning is superb and traction is excellent when the tires are hot. It is a pretty massive difference.

[ASAP]

Anybody who has any objective experience w F and G gen cars in general already knew the result before they saw this video.

The F series cars are far more twitchy, have larger traction problems and are inherently less stable. The G cars are far more stable, have better traction and are less snappy.

The tradeoff is that the while G the will perform far better on the track and be far easier to drive it will also feel a bit number and by default less fun because it's inherently TOO safe and stable (plus it comes with the penalty of weight). The F on the other hand will feel all over the place when you push it hard but it's easy to have more fun with it a far lower limit.

You need to choose which feeling you prefer. I suspect the switch was made in how the cars feel because the F series cars really didn't have that many good lap times now where they serious track cars anywhere (at least in stock config).

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by Davil

A 12 year old tyre that the car was not designed for. When I had them on my old M2C I affectionately referred to them as the slippery sports. Lots of fun but you are going nowhere fast, but with a smile. The Cup 2 Connect star spec is the correct choice for the CS. It’s not a track tyre in any way but it’s the one the car works best with.

Anyhow. They are both great cars. The G series in all forms is capability over fun. Go with what floats your boat. Just don’t get arrested.

The time of the CS with Cup2 is there.

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by AndreM2

BMW compensates the weight with wider tires.

Put the same wide tires on the m2cs and it is faster. More weight always kills the fun on track.

1700kg will never be a good car on track. It will go thru tires and brakes in no time.

People try to find youtube movies where the 1700kg m2 wins to get a good a feeling that they bought the car.
I have had lots of M cars. The best M car for fun on track was the m3 CSL and the 1M Coupe. Analog pure drivers cars. Small en nimble. Every other BMW with more weight was less fun! I stopped buying new BMW M cars for fun after the M2c. Now i sold the M2c also and the GT4RS is the replacement and keep it next to my 1m coupe. I wish i still had my M3 CSL. 1700 KG is just to much!

Lol. Is that the your new cope now? Tires too wide?

[swampfox94]

These weight discussions remind me of the 1m vs m2 days and then the m2 vs m2c days 😂 a lot of y’all take these very unserious cars too seriously

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by swampfox94

These weight discussions remind me of the 1m vs m2 days and then the m2 vs m2c days 😂 a lot of y’all take these very unserious cars too seriously

Bench racing is a national pastime.

[AndreM2]

Bench racing and find youtube movies of youre new car that is the fastest and the best.

The youtube influencers are more important nowadays then most people’s own opinions and feel with cars.

Love it when people say the GR86 does not have enough power. Those are the people which got overtaken on track by such low powered cars

I use my GT4RS also on track and i have just as much fun on track with my GR86. To milk the last seconds out of the gr86 is so much fun and certainly not easy to do so. You don’t have high horse power to compensate for your’e faults.

Most people fall in the trap bigger, heavier and compensate with more horsepower, wider tires, bigger brakes.

We should enjoy manufacturer’s which still offer cars under 1500kg. Less is more

How good a chassis might be 1700kg you will always feel.

[rideontwo]

Originally Posted by AndreM2

Bench racing and find youtube movies of youre new car that is the fastest and the best.

The youtube influencers are more important nowadays then most people’s own opinions and feel with cars.

Love it when people say the GR86 does not have enough power. Those are the people which got overtaken on track by such low powered cars

I use my GT4RS also on track and i have just as much fun on track with my GR86. To milk the last seconds out of the gr86 is so much fun and certainly not easy to do so. You don’t have high horse power to compensate for your’e faults.

Most people fall in the trap bigger, heavier and compensate with more horsepower, wider tires, bigger brakes.

We should enjoy manufacturer’s which still offer cars under 1500kg. Less is more

How good a chassis might be 1700kg you will always feel.

Agreed..

[FrozenGT]

I had F87 M2C 2020 with MP Suspension with stock tires. That car was very balanced and I could throw that car through turns and it glued to the road unless I put the car in MDM and then the back it would break loose ever so slightly. My 2020 M4 Comp with MP HAS kit double staggered wheels and tires 763M on PS4S BMW * the car is very glued to the road does not feel nervous at all. I have to try to push that car very hard for it to oversteer or understeer. Running 19F 20R makes a difference with the way the car pivots.

I know a lot of the older F generation M CARS felt nervous. Bmw did a lot of work on the suspension system over the years.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by swampfox94

These weight discussions remind me of the 1m vs m2 days and then the m2 vs m2c days �� a lot of y’all take these very unserious cars too seriously

my man... if you don't feel the weight difference between an F80 M3 and a G80 M3... I would really consider other hobbies

it's drastic how different the car's feel when being hustled around

I owned a 135i and M2 comp as well... and the difference between those 2 is already easily felt.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Says the X3 driver? I’m confused…

says the guy who owned an m2 comp, a 335i that ran a faster 1/4 mile time 10 years ago than the current m2, family member who owned an f80 m3... and has driven every single M product around PBIR, Homestead and in an Autocross... what about you?

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Why does that matter? LOL
This isn’t dick measuring contest.

You own an X3.
No one is going to your forum to say you should feel the weight of the car. Why? Because it doesn’t matter.
You didn’t buy the X3 because of the weight.

Neither did we.

a dick measuring contest is when someone steps in to say they own 20 cars including porsches on a bmw forum... or they say XYZ cars suck because I have a better car

when someone shares their REAL world experience driving everyone of these cars and their comparisons, that person should be considered an enthusiast based on knowledge and experience... hell even the folks on here that can't afford an m2 but have driven ones have valid opinions to state on these cars say to other cars they've driven...

if you look around, you will find my posts on the M2C and why I got rid of it... in summary, it was an insanely sloppy car that in my opinion had handling all over the place... was it very fun? yes it was... was it a good sporty car? Imho, not really... especially after I drove it hard around some backwoods vs even 15 year older corvettes.

these comments should actually work to your favor... as the G87 is far more composed... however objectively that comes w a weight penalty and an overall more numb feeling... hell just about every car reviewer said that as well... oh and how suv weights have any relevance to anything is beyond me... I don't think anyone on the X3 forum has ever compared weights of similar SUVs or to prior gens... well for one reason because it's not a performance car

[JustinHEMI]

I owned and F87 comp and now a G87. The weight difference isn't noticeable.