[kyrix1st]

If you drive E92 M3 and G87 M2 back to back, you will definitely notice the extra weight doing 90 mph transitions. F8x gen had pretty shitty OEM PSS, so that contributes to it as well.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by supershaft

i'm not sure a car weighing 400lb more is passing a GT4 or a C8 . Let's be honest they probably werent going all out.

I plan on driving my friends M2 next season at NJMP to see for myself but overall your track review is positive in my book and thank you for sharing

Where are you getting your info from? C8s weigh nearly as much as a G87 and put down less hp.
A 718 GT4 makes roughly 373 whp, so about 100 hp less than the G87.

I think it's safe to say that a properly driven G87 can keep up with those cars as we can finally put power down instead of spinning tires. Let's be honest, on the track, experience is much more important than the statistics on a car. Simply put, the OP can drive.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

Where are you getting your info from? C8s weigh nearly as much as a G87 and put down less hp.
A 718 GT4 makes roughly 373 whp, so about 100 hp less than the G87.

I think it's safe to say that a properly driven G87 can keep up with those cars as we can finally put power down instead of spinning tires. Let's be honest, on the track, experience is much more important than the statistics on a car. Simply put, the OP can drive.

🎯

[HelpMeHelpU]

More often than not, it’s the pilot, not the plane, so kudos to you for the great driving.

[Sherlock997]

Great write-up! Did you mess with the TCS settings or leave it in MDM?

I agree that this car does not feel anywhere near as heavy as you'd think. I just did my first autocross in mine and you could be surprisingly delicate and feels at home on the limit, some of the characteristics reminded me of my E36 M3. With TCS completely off it was a bit of a handful and would break the rear if you weren't careful getting back on throttle. But it did shockingly well for being completely stock on the Pirelli tires, I was .3 sec off FTD which was a GT3 on Cup2's and .2 sec off an F80 M3 on RE71RS's.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Missed this on first read. This is a "feature" of many BMW cars. The pedal has a "end of travel" and then a detent you have to push through to signal the computer you want WOT. It then does 100%

Shawn

Is there a way to disable/remove that? I hate non-linear throttles, particularly if your are trying to go WOT on trackout.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Yes, "goodness" is condescending, but I accept your apology.

So, I might be wrong, I'll fully admit to it. I "believe" WOT happens before the kickdown, I'll try to find BMW's documentation. But I'll trust your experience and data, perhaps the car doesn't go "WOT" (they haven't really used throttle for acceleration control for years anyway, so the term is not fully true for BMW with Valvetronic) until the button is depressed. I'll try to find some technical info, the manual doesn't detail this for us.

Sir - what is this "button" you speak of? Is that the kickdown detent?

[baron95]

Can we get some pictures of your tires? Any shoulder wear on the front with stock camber?

[Kevin_The_Clean1]

Originally Posted by MT6

Thorough reporting keep it up

Those are my exact same thoughts. The G87 continues to impress me & the semi shorter wheel base compared to the G80 is doing wonders for high speed track manuvers.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by baron95

Is there a way to disable/remove that? I hate non-linear throttles, particularly if your are trying to go WOT on trackout.

I am unaware of any way to disable it.

I have not physically viewed the mechanism myself. Some claim it’s a button at end of travel. Some say it’s a detent that causes resistance at end of travel. But, it’s a physical mechanism. Disabling that could be difficult.

Shawn

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Yes, most cars with automatic transmissions have a button behind the pedal, which triggers the transmission to lower gears when pushed (this lowering of gears is called "kickdown").

As our original poster states, this doesn't feel like a button or a switch. It actually feels "sticky" where it has initial resistance and then there's a click. I have no idea what the actual workings are, but they feel like he says. Anybody tear this down yet?

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Now, onto the debate of whether WOT is only achieved past that position or not lol

Thanks for the breakdown. That helps.

It depends on what the computer wants I guess. It could be programmed for max power BERORE the detent, or only AFTER. I dunno. I can tell you what BMW laptimer reports. But that is only what the telemetry says.

My ass says that full power isn't achieved until you get through the little "sticky" part. But my ass has been wrong before.

Shawn

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Definitely a body part you need to get it right every time... LOL :P

I was giving some thought to what you said, when you mention laptimes, you are really talking "full laps", right? Could that not have accounted for downshifts, and thus, more power?

I mean, a simple test would be a 0-60 dragy. One with full pedal (past kickdown) and one with full pedal just before the kickdown. If there's a measurable difference, then we can conclude WOT is past the resistance point. If not, that the resistance is only kickdown. I can't test for us... Manual here.

Laptimes are very difficult to quantify, as you point out.

My home track (the one this is about) has two LOOOONG straights that are driven 100% throttle for 3/4 mile (abouts). I found the "sticky" part like our OP in the first two events. It appears to make a difference. My BMW laptimer (it's an app that hooks up to the car) has marked telemetry that comes from the app. I was able to note that I was only hitting 99% throttle and I wondered why. Its pushing past that detent. No idea if it makes a real difference in what the computer is doing with the engine - but at 6th gear at 80% RPM, "kickdown" - the transmission doesn't do nothin. It would overrev if it did. Were I at 20% rpm when I floored it? Maybe.

Shawn

[GT3M2]

Originally Posted by supershaft

i'm not sure a car weighing 400lb more is passing a GT4 or a C8 . Let's be honest they probably werent going all out.

I plan on driving my friends M2 next season at NJMP to see for myself but overall your track review is positive in my book and thank you for sharing

Uh theres a guy on here with c8 and m2, he says the m2 is hands down faster, lol

M2 with tires/suspension and a tune is lightyears ahead of gt4.

-GT3M2

[adc]

OP, if you don’t mind, what run group were you in, and what was the laptime range you were getting?

I understand not all track days will yield PBs as there are numerous variables to contend with (traffic, temps, tire condition etc.) but I’m trying to understand if the G87 would be a step up from my modified F80, or not.

[baron95]

Lap times are interesting, but I care more about how the tires held up (and brakes) - would love to see pictures of the front tire shoulders - and how the car feels on track to drive.

Track days are all about having fun while going through consumables (tires, brakes, etc) at an acceptable rate.

The P-cars are great for the consumable wear rates. Don't expect the M2 to match that, but having a set of pads last at least 2 full weekends and tires last a few is a plus.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by baron95

Lap times are interesting, but I care more about how the tires held up (and brakes) - would love to see pictures of the front tire shoulders - and how the car feels on track to drive.

Track days are all about having fun while going through consumables (tires, brakes, etc) at an acceptable rate.

The P-cars are great for the consumable wear rates. Don't expect the M2 to match that, but having a set of pads last at least 2 full weekends and tires last a few is a plus.

100-200kg difference is huge on consumables. To give you an idea...
I went through 10 track days over a year on my Z3 1.9, haven't changed the pads, rotors or tires during that time. On my E92 M3, I changed pads, rotors and tires after 3-4 track days of similar intensity.

I changed the brake fluid on both of them whenever I felt the pedal get spongy/every 6 months. As for the engine oil, I kept it at 1,000km or 100 running hours.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

100-200kg difference is huge on consumables. To give you an idea...
I went through 10 track days over a year on my Z3 1.9, haven't changed the pads, rotors or tires during that time. On my E92 M3, I changed pads, rotors and tires after 3-4 track days of similar intensity.

I changed the brake fluid on both of them whenever I felt the pedal get spongy/every 6 months. As for the engine oil, I kept it at 1,000km or 100 running hours.

Not to derail the thread, but the Z3 1.9 was sold in the US? Given that I occasional race Spec E30, I'd have loved to track a low HP street bimmer. I didn't know the 1.9 were sold in the US.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

100-200kg difference is huge on consumables. To give you an idea...
I went through 10 track days over a year on my Z3 1.9, haven't changed the pads, rotors or tires during that time. On my E92 M3, I changed pads, rotors and tires after 3-4 track days of similar intensity.

Are you joking?

You're comparing weight as the contributing factor on consumable rate in cars with a 300hp power differential?

Look, one of my favorite things to do is tool around VIR with one of my buddies in a spec Miata in my M5. He's very clean and FAST around the turns. I consume 15% of the same amount of fuel, and very little tire wear or brake pad wear. But the difference is speed and acceleration, nothing to do with weight.

You can't compare those cars consumable rates and attribute it to weight. Those cars don't live on the same planet as far as acceleration, top speed, and resultant braking delta.

I don't controvert that weight doesn't have a contribution. But that's not the major contributor in that case.

Shawn

[zinner]

Great thread, I love VIR and reading your comments about driving the track takes me back there.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by zinner

Great thread, I love VIR and reading your comments about driving the track takes me back there.

Come back. Lots of open events there. You're just a hop skip and a jump away.

Shawn

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Are you joking?

You're comparing weight as the contributing factor on consumable rate in cars with a 300hp power differential?

Look, one of my favorite things to do is tool around VIR with one of my buddies in a spec Miata in my M5. He's very clean and FAST around the turns. I consume 15% of the same amount of fuel, and very little tire wear or brake pad wear. But the difference is speed and acceleration, nothing to do with weight.

You can't compare those cars consumable rates and attribute it to weight. Those cars don't live on the same planet as far as acceleration, top speed, and resultant braking delta.

I don't controvert that weight doesn't have a contribution. But that's not the major contributor in that case.

Shawn

Not exactly.. my Z3 cornered faster than the E92 M3, it's a momentum car. What it lacks in straight line you make up by not losing speed in corner entries. Tire wear is primarily weight, anyone who says otherwise hasn't tracked their lightweight cars hard enough.
If what you are saying is true, Caterhams should consume tires at a much more rapid pace than Miatas but that's simply not the case. Uneven wear is mostly alignment issue.
I would agree brake and rotor wears are more power dependent.

Originally Posted by baron95

Not to derail the thread, but the Z3 1.9 was sold in the US? Given that I occasional race Spec E30, I'd have loved to track a low HP street bimmer. I didn't know the 1.9 were sold in the US.

No, it was my race car back in Japan. JP spec had the best car, I think the final gear ratio was 3.8, not offered anywhere else in the world. I raced with an FIA grade A (national) competition license.