[curtdragon]

Originally Posted by ScottyRyan2019

We have E85 around here. What kind of power do you think it would make running that?

I believe you can't run full ethanol without port injection. E40 gives the most power with the stock setup. Even when running flex fuel without the injectors it will dial back when you have a higher content. It's just easier to fill at the pump and let the ecu adjust rather than do chemistry and blend to make E40 lol.
I'm any case E40 downpipe will net you 700s.

[Tag]

670whp track shakedown.

[curtdragon]

Guys stop arguing lol.

This is it:
Stage 0: stock
Stage 1: any bolts ons besides turbo or downpipe and tune
Stage 2: downpipe and any other mods besides turbo
Stage 3: hybrid turbo
Stage 4: full frame turbo

Fueling is irrelevant. Tune and E40 is stage one. Add downpipe and it's stage 2.

At least that's the case for German cars. I haven't had a factory turbo Japanese.

[DailyDownshift]

So what do these cars make to the wheel with stage 2 pump gas (93/94 octane)? Can’t be asked to run fuel or ethanol, not accessible and too expensive where I’m at.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by Daily Downshift

So what do these cars make to the wheel with stage 2 pump gas (93/94 octane)? Can’t be asked to run fuel or ethanol, not accessible and too expensive where I’m at.

...

[DailyDownshift]

Originally Posted by Tag

...

Ahh I must have missed this, figure seems underwhelming :/

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by Tag

...

Thats bs...I have full bolt ons (downpipes, exhaust and intake) and tuned on 93 octane and over 650whp (yes, I also have heat exchanger, trans & oil coolers and colder plugs but that is security/safety to keep cooler and not adding power).

[curtdragon]

Really if you guys want to see what this engine does just hop on over to the M3/4 section. It's the same drivetrain that has been tuned like mad.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Remember we don’t have 93/94 in Canada, unless you fuel up in the US. So gains are smaller even. But 85hp is not too shabby…

Since when doesn't Canada have 93/94 octane?

[grl.racr]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Remember we don’t have 93/94 in Canada, unless you fuel up in the US. So gains are smaller even. But 85hp is not too shabby…

93 is available in the GTA

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Yeah, no it’s not.
Canadian 93 is worse than American 91.

What is wrong with these 93/94 (and I dont mean you just saying so):

https://www.shell.ca/en_ca/drivers/m...-gasoline.html


https://www.petro-canada.ca/en/personal/fuel/gas

[DailyDownshift]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

Thats bs...I have full bolt ons (downpipes, exhaust and intake) and tuned on 93 octane and over 650whp (yes, I also have heat exchanger, trans & oil coolers and colder plugs but that is security/safety to keep cooler and not adding power).

Damn, I wonder why your numbers and his are so far apart for a 93 octane tune. Are you on a custom map or OTS like bootmod3?

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by Daily Downshift

Damn, I wonder why your numbers and his are so far apart for a 93 octane tune. Are you on a custom map or OTS like bootmod3?

Custom tune.

[sacowich]

For reference.
I’m at 580s hp with bolt ons and piggyback on pump 93. I’m sure it could be pushed well over 600 with proper tune.

[peelerec]

Why is everyone so consumed with defining different “stages”? There is no value to this discussion. You all sound like children. No one should care about defining “stage #”.

Let’s discuss more critical topics such as handling modifications and how Jackie is going to adjust Aero now that he has more power. I’m looking forward to seeing Jackie test out the new setup on a not so cold day.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by peelerec

Why is everyone so consumed with defining different “stages”? There is no value to this discussion. You all sound like children. No one should care about defining “stage #”.

Let’s discuss more critical topics such as handling modifications and how Jackie is going to adjust Aero now that he has more power. I’m looking forward to seeing Jackie test out the new setup on a not so cold day.

Lol. Only on a BMW forum would people be arguing about stage definition. That’s stage 1. I mean stage 1.2567. Then hang an air freshener and your at Stage 2. me

[6SPDG82]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Remember we don’t have 93/94 in Canada, unless you fuel up in the US. So gains are smaller even. But 85hp is not too shabby…

Ontario has Shell 93 and Petrocan 94.

I believe BC and Alberta do as well?

Might be out of luck in the Maritimes.

[6SPDG82]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Again, Canadian 93 and 94 are worse than US 91/92. So having those numbers on the pump are meaningless for tuning and making power.

I don’t get it…both countries are following the same rating standards and use ethanol… AKI, (R+M)/2

I’ve driven across the border and lived in the US previously and noticed zero difference logging on previous modded cars.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Yup, but the numbers are meaningless.

That’s why tuners tune cars differently depending on where they are.
Every tuner will have some tune called “CAN”, which stands for “California, Arizona, and Nevada”, because their 91 is worse than the 91 everywhere else.

I’ve tuned my car exclusively with the CAN tunes in Canada as well. Made more power in California with their 91 than with the 93/94 in Canada.

I have also tuned my car with 91 tunes and with a 93 tune. This 93 test almost ruined my engine, it misfired so badly I got a huge cloud of black smoke after a pull.

Just beware is my advice. Research the topic. To keep in topic, when talking about fueling, gains posted by an American with their 93 will never be achieved in Canada.
Compare gains posted to people in California on pump gas to see what we can get here with pump fuel.

We have access to E85 too, which opens up more gain potential, but they’re scarce and also limit the amount of power you can make due to fuel starvation (can only make so much power before needing a bigger fuel pump).

Cheers fellow Canucks

The issue is mainly the ethanol content vs the octane. The tune needs to adjust fuel quantity vs timing, but will make as much power if done correctly. On my Caterham I need 3% more fuel to shift my Lambda from 0.88 to 0.86 at full throttle open loop operation when using Petro Canada 94AKI (normally rated as the highest RON fuel at 100 or slightly higher commonly available in North America). Canadian fuel along with California now is mandated to have ethanol content.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by M2siast

But that’s a separate conversation. We are not talking about AFR. And while there are differences between ethanol content across brands and provinces/states, it is pretty safe to say the range is between 5-10% ethanol in North America (we used to have 0% but I believe that’s gone now).

A higher Lambda will cause more pre-ignition when beyond the optimum (0.86 for most engines at max power if more fueling is not needed to cool the combustion chamber). Running a tune that is optimized for non-ethanol containing fuel will cause a loss in power similar to the octane looking too low, especially if the higher Lambda will induce earlier pre-ignition and cause timing to be pulled.

Octane is measured in a standardized manner. Depending on which state in the US, there is a higher likelihood of 0% ethanol, which may look like a better octane rating compared with E10 (which has been effectively mandated in Canada since Nov 2022).

I’m running 30 degrees of advance at 8200RPM with 12.6:1 compression ratio on Canadian Shell E10 93AKI (at 1000m altitude in general) no problem. It is fine if you ensure enough fuel is being added to the fuel map in open loop operation to compensate for the lower 14.1 stoichometric ratio of E10 compared with 14.7 for E0.

[Kevin_The_Clean1]

Originally Posted by peelerec

Why is everyone so consumed with defining different “stages”? There is no value to this discussion. You all sound like children. No one should care about defining “stage #”.

Let’s discuss more critical topics such as handling modifications and how Jackie is going to adjust Aero now that he has more power. I’m looking forward to seeing Jackie test out the new setup on a not so cold day.

Exactly...

[xtougher]

I got a wireless phone charger in mine.

Pretty sure that makes me a stage -1