[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by xtougher

Out of curiosity, do you stick with a certain brand(s) of fuel?

I fill up at the same HEB in Austin every week before my trip back to Dallas & the same Mobil station before the trip back to Austin. After I fill up on Wed nights, my commute is 14 mi Thursday morning to work, then I leave from work Thurs afternoon.

[abrandonment]

Why the back and fourth?

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by abrandonment

Why the back and fourth?

I work at UT and live north of Dallas. My youngest just started high school, so we're not moving him from his friends/teams/etc. When he's off to college we'll sell the house and move to Austin permanently.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

5600 miles, lifetime avg. 17.9 MPG so far. cant seem to top 24 mpg on the highway (21 with 2 pairs of skis on the roof). c'est la vie...

Over 7200 miles and gas mileage since factory is just over 20mpg. No real highway time. But fortunately most roads I drive on have a speed limit of 45mph and almost always I drive during off peak hours so I avoid driving in traffic.

Oh, even if I were to spend more drive time on the freeway the terrain around here (Benton County AR) is pretty hilly and watching real time gas mileage while going up and down hills is rather depressing. The >50mpg obtained going down hill is soon <15mpg when climbing the next hill. Straight/flat stretches of road are short and far between.

[aerobod]

The BMW UK site lists the M2 8AT at 34 UK mpg in the WLTP high-speed test cycle (8.3l/100km, 28 US mpg), so 30 US mpg is not far off that highway cruising speed rating. I've achieved 8.0l/100km a couple of times cruising on the highway.

The US EPA fuel consumption ratings used to be overly optimistic, but with the re-vamp a couple of years ago, they seem to have swung in the opposite direction. The WLTP combined figures are also not representative of fuel consumption at steady cruising in good conditions.

[xtougher]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

I fill up at the same HEB in Austin every week before my trip back to Dallas & the same Mobil station before the trip back to Austin. After I fill up on Wed nights, my commute is 14 mi Thursday morning to work, then I leave from work Thurs afternoon.

Thanks for the info.

I've been sticking with Shell and Chevron only in my previous cars, mostly due to old information and anecdotal (albeit not very scientific) confirmation a long time ago.

I was just wondering if others had seen any noticeable differences in the locally available brands.

I had seen some others mentioning stuff with brands that are not here, so it was tough to follow any conclusions drawn that would affect me.

[chris719]

I assume the manual is far worse because of the gearing.

[xtougher]

Originally Posted by chris719

I assume the manual is far worse because of the gearing.

Agreed. I'm getting closer to 20.0 MPG and have a manual. Admittedly, a decent portion of my commute in the afternoon is in stop and go traffic, so that's not helping me at all.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by xtougher

Thanks for the info.

I've been sticking with Shell and Chevron only in my previous cars, mostly due to old information and anecdotal (albeit not very scientific) confirmation a long time ago.

I was just wondering if others had seen any noticeable differences in the locally available brands.

I had seen some others mentioning stuff with brands that are not here, so it was tough to follow any conclusions drawn that would affect me.

Not a scientific study for sure but with a number of my cars over the years I have run Chevron, Shell, Union 76, Phillips 66 gasoline and some brands of discount gasoline that honestly I can't recall now. And since my 2001 Camaro Z28 all engines have required 91 octane.

None of my car engines manifested any changes, good or bad, with one exception. When I switched my 2002 Boxster from a steady diet of Shell V-Power to Chevron Supreme (both 91 E10) with Techron in one tank of Supreme the Boxster engine was running better. (At the same time I switched my 2003 996 Turbo from Shell V-Power to Chevron Supreme and the Turbo engine didn't show any reaction, good or bad.)

I discussed the favorable reaction my Boxster engine had to Chevron gasoline with the Porsche senior Porsche techs and they said the Techron removed fuel/engine deposits. And this is why they either filled up with Chevron once in a while or used Techron additive once in a while.

Since August 2020 I have lived in Benton County AR. There are a few Shell stations about but their prices are quite a bit higher (50 cents/gallon!)l than the other stations. There are likewise a few Philips 66 stations about but like the Shell stations prices are quite a bit higher than other stations.

So I have used Littlefield (91 ethanol free), Casey's, Kum & Go, and the last month or so Walmart stations for gas. 91 E10. Walmart gasoline is priced about as low as I have seen gasoline around here. (I don't have a Walmart membership but a woman I know does and she saves an additional 10 cents/gallon because of it. The woman uses Walmart gasoline in her 2024 BMW X4 M40i.)

My cars here have been a 2018 Hellcat (that I drove from CA to here when I left CA), 2020 M-B cargo van, a 2020 Scat Pack, 2022 BMW 230i, 2022 MINI S, 2023 MINI JCW, 2023 BMW M2, and my last car purchase was a 2024 BMW 230xi.

The Hellcat engine was supercharged, the Scat Pack was a naturally aspirated engine, and all the other engines were or are turbo-charged.

So far none of the engines past or present, have manifested any signs they prefer or dislike one gasoline vs. any other.

I really wanted for instance the Hellcat which over 25K miles was fueled by CA 91 E10 (various brands) to react favorably to 91 ethanol free, but it did not.

Likewise I drove the cargo van to CA and back and fueled it with a variety of name brand gasoline (all 91 E10) and the engine showed no preference for any brand of gasoline compared to what I put in the tank here.

I drove my 2022 BMW 230i to Colorado Springs then down to Albuquerque and back home again. Had a chance to use brands of gasoline in it not available here including Chevron. The BMW showed no preference for any brand of gasoline.

Drove the MINI S from here to CA and back and fueled it with a variety of name brand gasoline. No favorable or unfavorable reaction to any of them.

In one year my 2023 M2 has been fueled with mostly 91 ethanol free but I have fueled it occasionally with Casey's 91 E10 and recently with Walmart 91 E10. The engine manifests no reaction, good or bad, to any of these brands of gasoline. Same applies to my 2024 BMW 230xi.

All I do is buy gasoline -- whatever the brand -- from a busy station. That is not hard to do as it is clear the busiest stations are the ones with the lowest prices.

Oh, and my habit -- for which I have no real reason to have -- is I do not fill up if there is a fuel truck delivering fuel. I've been assured by a several station owners this replenishing of the station tanks does not in any way pose risk to any vehicles filling up at the time and I believe the station owners for if there was a problem we'd know about it due to all the reports of problems, but old habits die hard.

One other thing: Had my 2024 230xi in for an early oil/filter service 1.5 months and 1800 miles after buying it new. The service included "Standard Scope service" with this: Includes BMW Fuel Additive. Specifically Twin Power Turbo Additive, part #: 83-19-5-A07-750. When I asked about this I was told the additive was used as per BMW.

Now March 19 I had my M2 in for its first CBS service with over 7K miles and just a few weeks short of one year. No BMW Twin Turbo fuel additive was used. At least nothing was listed on the paperwork.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Over 7200 miles and gas mileage since factory is just over 20mpg. No real highway time. But fortunately most roads I drive on have a speed limit of 45mph and almost always I drive during off peak hours so I avoid driving in traffic.

Oh, even if I were to spend more drive time on the freeway the terrain around here (Benton County AR) is pretty hilly and watching real time gas mileage while going up and down hills is rather depressing. The >50mpg obtained going down hill is soon <15mpg when climbing the next hill. Straight/flat stretches of road are short and far between.

same environment here, nothing but up and down hills. I think a good argument can be made for the 8AT simply for extending cruising range by 50-100 miles. stopping twice to get gas in a 400 mile round trip is brutal

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

same environment here, nothing but up and down hills. I think a good argument can be made for the 8AT simply for extending cruising range by 50-100 miles. stopping twice to get gas in a 400 mile round trip is brutal

For sure the 8AT shines on the highway.

Drove my Hellcat with its 8AT from CA to AR. Most of the time I was cruising at 75mph and while one would not mistake the car for a Prius based on the fuel consumption it wasn't that bad. Mid 20s miles per gallon. In CA when used for my 60 mile a day work commute the car averaged 15mpg!

Engine RPMs were around 2K.

With my various cars all equipped with 6-speed manuals on the same route being driven at the same speed engine RPMs were up to around 3K. The engines all delivered their best gas mileage to be sure but I suspect the same car fitted with an automatic would have resulted in better gas mileage.

[JABCAT]

Interestingly, I seem to get a lower mpg avg on my trip from Dallas to Austin. My trip down Monday night had more variable speed as I drove through a couple storms. Zero traffic because it was Midnight - 3:30 am. My avg was 26 mpg.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

Interestingly, I seem to get a lower mpg avg on my trip from Dallas to Austin. My trip down Monday night had more variable speed as I drove through a couple storms. Zero traffic because it was Midnight - 3:30 am. My avg was 26 mpg.

Water on the road can add drag and increase fuel consumption. Added: Forgot to mention that wind can affect gas mileage. On the way home from CA in my M-B cargo van for most of the trip I was driving into a pretty good head wind. Gas mileage was down. Then I had the benefit of a tail wind and gas mileage went up a bit.

Also, with cars with instantaneous fuel consumption available I have observed -- at least with my German cars -- they seem to really deliver good gas mileage at a higher speed than one would expect.

My Boxster and especially my 996 Turbo really liked 80mph or a bit higher vs. 65mph. Sure wind resistance at higher speed is real but it just seemed the engines were in their sweet spot at a bit higher speed and engine RPMs and fuel mileage was good.

My Boxster had a variable intake runner length feature that kicked in at around 3K RPMs which could have accounted for the better than expected gas mileage at higher speed and higher engine RPMs.

But the Turbo didn't have that intake feature.

It would not surprise me if the M2 behaved the same. One of these days I'll get a chance to spend some time on the open road and away from the hilly terrain.

[Ravenseal]

*laughs in 14.9 mpg*

[MMMGuy60]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

*laughs in 14.9 mpg*

That's the proper way to enjoy the car

[xtougher]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Not a scientific study for sure but with a number of my cars over the years I have run Chevron, Shell, Union 76, Phillips 66 gasoline and some brands of discount gasoline that honestly I can't recall now. And since my 2001 Camaro Z28 all engines have required 91 octane.

None of my car engines manifested any changes, good or bad, with one exception. When I switched my 2002 Boxster from a steady diet of Shell V-Power to Chevron Supreme (both 91 E10) with Techron in one tank of Supreme the Boxster engine was running better. (At the same time I switched my 2003 996 Turbo from Shell V-Power to Chevron Supreme and the Turbo engine didn't show any reaction, good or bad.)

I discussed the favorable reaction my Boxster engine had to Chevron gasoline with the Porsche senior Porsche techs and they said the Techron removed fuel/engine deposits. And this is why they either filled up with Chevron once in a while or used Techron additive once in a while.

Since August 2020 I have lived in Benton County AR. There are a few Shell stations about but their prices are quite a bit higher (50 cents/gallon!)l than the other stations. There are likewise a few Philips 66 stations about but like the Shell stations prices are quite a bit higher than other stations.

So I have used Littlefield (91 ethanol free), Casey's, Kum & Go, and the last month or so Walmart stations for gas. 91 E10. Walmart gasoline is priced about as low as I have seen gasoline around here. (I don't have a Walmart membership but a woman I know does and she saves an additional 10 cents/gallon because of it. The woman uses Walmart gasoline in her 2024 BMW X4 M40i.)

My cars here have been a 2018 Hellcat (that I drove from CA to here when I left CA), 2020 M-B cargo van, a 2020 Scat Pack, 2022 BMW 230i, 2022 MINI S, 2023 MINI JCW, 2023 BMW M2, and my last car purchase was a 2024 BMW 230xi.

The Hellcat engine was supercharged, the Scat Pack was a naturally aspirated engine, and all the other engines were or are turbo-charged.

So far none of the engines past or present, have manifested any signs they prefer or dislike one gasoline vs. any other.

I really wanted for instance the Hellcat which over 25K miles was fueled by CA 91 E10 (various brands) to react favorably to 91 ethanol free, but it did not.

Likewise I drove the cargo van to CA and back and fueled it with a variety of name brand gasoline (all 91 E10) and the engine showed no preference for any brand of gasoline compared to what I put in the tank here.

I drove my 2022 BMW 230i to Colorado Springs then down to Albuquerque and back home again. Had a chance to use brands of gasoline in it not available here including Chevron. The BMW showed no preference for any brand of gasoline.

Drove the MINI S from here to CA and back and fueled it with a variety of name brand gasoline. No favorable or unfavorable reaction to any of them.

In one year my 2023 M2 has been fueled with mostly 91 ethanol free but I have fueled it occasionally with Casey's 91 E10 and recently with Walmart 91 E10. The engine manifests no reaction, good or bad, to any of these brands of gasoline. Same applies to my 2024 BMW 230xi.

All I do is buy gasoline -- whatever the brand -- from a busy station. That is not hard to do as it is clear the busiest stations are the ones with the lowest prices.

Oh, and my habit -- for which I have no real reason to have -- is I do not fill up if there is a fuel truck delivering fuel. I've been assured by a several station owners this replenishing of the station tanks does not in any way pose risk to any vehicles filling up at the time and I believe the station owners for if there was a problem we'd know about it due to all the reports of problems, but old habits die hard.

One other thing: Had my 2024 230xi in for an early oil/filter service 1.5 months and 1800 miles after buying it new. The service included "Standard Scope service" with this: Includes BMW Fuel Additive. Specifically Twin Power Turbo Additive, part #: 83-19-5-A07-750. When I asked about this I was told the additive was used as per BMW.

Now March 19 I had my M2 in for its first CBS service with over 7K miles and just a few weeks short of one year. No BMW Twin Turbo fuel additive was used. At least nothing was listed on the paperwork.

Great observations! Thanks for taking the time to write it all up. And I know this is far from scientific, but it's still good information in my book.

I still don't know what that means for me moving forward. As you said, old habits die hard, even with some evidence that there isn't as much of a difference between brands as maybe some have said.

The curveball is that near my house, there is a Chevron that happens to be one of the cheaper places to get gas and it's at a busy-ish station. So it sort of checks more of the boxes than some others.

. LOL

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by xtougher

Great observations! Thanks for taking the time to write it all up. And I know this is far from scientific, but it's still good information in my book.

I still don't know what that means for me moving forward. As you said, old habits die hard, even with some evidence that there isn't as much of a difference between brands as maybe some have said.

The curveball is that near my house, there is a Chevron that happens to be one of the cheaper places to get gas and it's at a busy-ish station. So it sort of checks more of the boxes than some others.

. LOL

Nothing wrong with Chevron especially if it offers gasoline at an attractive price.

[xtougher]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Nothing wrong with Chevron especially if it offers gasoline at an attractive price.

For sure. So that's where I've ended up most of the time, just because it's already Chevron, and it happens to be cheap at that one particular station.

Just keeping the brain open for when I'm in a different area and need to fuel up.

[WillSmithTheIII]

I work at a Chevron refinery and can tell you that all the teir 1 gas stations are giving you the exact same gas. All the refineries send their gasoline to a terminal where it is blended in large tanks based on their Octane specs. Then when a gas station orders fuel, the delivery trucks are filled up with the gasoline mix and any detergents are added based on the delivery location (I.e. Techron for Chevron stations, NiTRO+ for Shell, etc.)

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by WillSmithTheIII

I work at a Chevron refinery and can tell you that all the teir 1 gas stations are giving you the exact same gas. All the refineries send their gasoline to a terminal where it is blended in large tanks based on their Octane specs. Then when a gas station orders fuel, the delivery trucks are filled up with the gasoline mix and any detergents are added based on the delivery location (I.e. Techron for Chevron stations, NiTRO+ for Shell, etc.)

What do you do at the refinery?

Certainly the additive package of the gasoline is important. (As an aside this is also what I gather regarding engine oils.)

I have already mentioned of experiencing the benefit of Chevron Supreme w/Techron in my Boxster's engine after switching from Shell V-Power to Chevron Supreme.

But my 996 Turbo engine which was switched from Shell V-Power to Chevron Supreme at the same time -- and both cars received identical usage as I alternated cars for my daily 60 mile work commute -- didn't manifest any signs of improvement. This suggests the Turbo engine didn't develop engine deposits. The Turbo engine was fitted with wide band O2 sensors -- the Boxster engine came with narrow band O2 sensors -- and wide band O2 sensors allow for more precise fueling. Maybe that is the difference. Oh and the Boxster engine had 100K+ *more* miles on it than the Turbo engine. So there are two differences that could explain why Techron helped the Boxster engine but not the Turbo engine.

Our BMW engines are fitted with wide band O2 sensors and have the added benefit of advances in engine control from the 20+ years between the engines in my 2002 Boxster and 2003 Turbo.

But these newer BMW engines are also direct injection and thus no port injection and corresponding fuel spray to keep intake valves deposits (on the back side of the valves) at bay.

My info is that Techron can address these deposits -- in its vapor form -- Techron doesn't burn -- by the post combustion exhaust gas flow which exposes the back of the intake valves to combustion gases. The Techron reverts to its liquid phase upon contact with the cooler intake valves and this works to remove deposits.

Which might explain why last oil/filter service of my 230xi Techron was added to the fuel tank as per BMW when I had the oil/filter service done at 1800 miles.

However, my M2 has had oil/filter services at ~600 miles, 1200 miles (RIS), 4800 miles, and 7196 miles (CBS). I reviewed all invoices and there was no Techron additive used.

I will finish this by mentioning that in my leaving CA for AR and my subsequent switch from having conveniently located Chevron/Shell/Phillips/Unocal 76 stations and offering gasoline at competitive (California competitive...) prices to using discount gasoline none of my vehicles have manifested any signs the discount gasoline is in any way inferior to the name brand gasoline.

'course, I have not put that many miles on my cars. (The Boxster I put 317K miles on it and I put 150K on the Turbo.)

Here the 2020 M-B cargo van accumulated 20K miles (and the engine was as strong as ever when I traded the van in) but my Scat Pack, 2 MINIs, 230i, all racked up under 8K miles.

My 230xi has around 3500-3600 miles and my M2 has around 7500 miles. And I have no plans to replace these cars any time soon.

So as the 230xi and M2 accumulate more miles I'll certainly be on the lookout for any signs the discount gasoline is in any way having a negative effect on these engines.

[JABCAT]

Got 27.2 on my drive up yesterday but left Austin at 5 pm so sat in traffic for quite awhile. Also hit a road crew filling a pothole south of Waco and sat in stop & go for 25 min. Definitely the best time to shut down the highway to fix a pothole.

Looked at my "since factory" mpg, and it's currently at 24.3. Can't complain.

[xtougher]

Originally Posted by WillSmithTheIII

I work at a Chevron refinery and can tell you that all the teir 1 gas stations are giving you the exact same gas. All the refineries send their gasoline to a terminal where it is blended in large tanks based on their Octane specs. Then when a gas station orders fuel, the delivery trucks are filled up with the gasoline mix and any detergents are added based on the delivery location (I.e. Techron for Chevron stations, NiTRO+ for Shell, etc.)

A quick search just now netted 55 tier 1 brands of gas. I hadn't searched that in YEARS, but that's a LOT more than I remember a long time ago.

So based on this, there is reason to believe that getting gas at any of these places, should have the same results.

That's interesting.