[G30M]

the Dark Horse would be a great complement to my EV6 GT, but my fake M5 non competition is in the way ....

[AndriTheGiant]

The mustang looks great but overall the M2 is better/handling and the interior quality looks better in my opinion.

[ScottyRyan2019]

Coming from a 2022 Mustang GT Premium 10sp tuned on E85 I will try compare the two and this is simply my opinion. Yes I know it's a Gen 3 Coyote and S550 platform, but it does compare well to the S650 Gen 4 ( most people I've talked to in the Mustang world still prefer the S550 looks over S650).

Looks are subjective but I think the Mustang exudes raw power, the M2 refined classy power. I have received more compliments on the M2's looks in the few months I've had it than the 2.5 years I had the Mustang, but in fairness the Cyber Orange with black accents Mustang was more polarizing of a color than the white M2 with back accents.

Drivability of the M2 is hands down better. The Mustang when it was cold or light throttle could never really find the right gear to be in. Warmed up and under moderate to WOT it was no problem. I heard from one tuner I know that the S650 trans tables are a bit improved over the S550 but I don't know that first hand.

The M2's powertrain refinement is dang near perfect. Smooth power delivery from idle on up and the trans always seems to be in the right gear. The M2 also handles and rides better than my S550 did, both running A/S tires in close to similar sizes.

My Mustang was approx 450 HP to the wheel tuned on E85 (which you can do to a Gen 3 with no supporting mods) so the wheel HP is comparable. My butt dyno says the M2 is quicker especially from a roll.

As for fit and finish, both are really good. No paint blems or panel misalignments on either. Interior of the M2 is nicer. The stock M2 seats are much better than the GT Premium and I think even better than the optional Recaros.

The M2 tech is better including more options to tune the car as you want through the iDrive ( Engine, trans, suspension, brakes, etc)

As for performance mods, being the M2 is already boosted you can probably reach approx the same HP levels for around half the cost.

Visibility. The M2 has better by far.

Brake dust ( yeah I went there 🤪 )? The Mustang wins this one.

Value? Can't really compare a 2022 to a 2024 but I paid about $20K less for my S550 than my M2. But comparing it to a 2024 Dark Horse which is priced much too high (IMO) the M2 is a better value and is a lot of car for the money.

The engine sound...I give that 100% to the Coyote especially at WOT with the exhaust in Sport or Track. That engine is simply music to my ears.

Don't get me wrong, I loved my Mustang and it was not an easy decision. But I simply LOVE my M2 and I don't think from what I've seen and read that the S650 would change my mind.

[M2PDX]

Originally Posted by stark_c

I honestly don’t think normal people cross shop mustang with M cars. Either you do German or you do American muscle.

Guess I'm not normal.

I have had three Mustangs over the years. I like them. And definitely cross-shopped the Mustang GT350 versus the last generation f-87 M2. But once I drove The M2, there was no question about it.

I wanted to like the new version of the Mustang a lot more.

But, the G87 blows the current Mustang GT or Dark Horse out of the water. Haven't driven a GT500, but probably couldn't afford one anyway. So there is nothing else in the price range that is even close to the G87.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by VANOS

Not surprised with the results… But what surprises me is that BMW didn’t make an AWD version of the M2; I think it would’ve almost outdone the M3 if they did. Regardless wish they made an AWD version.

It’s a strong probability M-xDrive gets offered on M2… 2026 MY if it happens

At least that’s what our local insider says

BMW has tested all configurations of M2

It’s a matter of IF it makes sense or not

I’d still rather have the M2 over the DH

[biggripper]

Originally Posted by stark_c

I honestly don’t think normal people cross shop mustang with M cars. Either you do German or you do American muscle.

What’s normal? I’d argue that people cross shop in ways that may seem nonsensical to some. I think this can be especially true with higher sticker prices which may have the effect of causing the buyer to give extra consideration to value for dollar. Mind you, for some value is not just about performance. For me, fear of buyers remorse can be a strong motivator also.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by biggripper

What’s normal? I’d argue that people cross shop in ways that may seem nonsensical to some. I think this can be especially true with higher sticker prices which may have the effect of causing the buyer to give extra consideration to value for dollar. Mind you, for some value is not just about performance. For me, fear of buyers remorse can be a strong motivator also.

For track use, I would cross-shop both cars. Specifically, the DH Premium with the Handling Package and Recaro seats.

My general thoughts are I think the G87 M2 is a better overall package for most people at the price point. G87 M2 is faster around a track with the same tires as the DH with Handling Package.

If you track a LOT, the DH has an advantage from a catastrophic repair cost perspective. If you blow up the 5.0L Coyote and/or the Tremec, you just go online and "add to cart" since a long block is likely to be $5-7k and the Tremec is probably $2-3k. If you blow up a S58, you might as well toss your G87 M2 in a car shredder. It will probably cost you $35-40k for a new S58 long block + 2 replacement turbos.

The DH Premium with Handling Package and Recaros is a fantastic car minus it's $70k MSRP entry point. If it was price at the $50-55k range, it would unequivocally be my go-to track car in that price range.

[Angmar]

Originally Posted by c1pher

I have a 911 and hardly anyone says anything to me when I drive it. When I’m in the M2. I get thumbs up from other drivers, people compliment the M2, ask all kinds of questions or strike up conversations. I am surprised how many people know what an M2 even is as sort of a niche car. This morning, some guy wanted me to visit his boat dealership because he had a similar white/black speedboat and take photos of them together. I was like well I’m on my way somewhere else but thanks….stalker?

Haha I hear you man…I’m out in my car everyday and pretty much every day I got people complimenting the looks. Also can’t even count how many times someone told me the zandvordt blue looked awesome and asked me if I custom painted or wrapped it lol.

[JustChris]

I think you get the V8 and the Mustang as 2nd or 3rd car and a treat for the weekend if you daily SUV etc and family wagon.

The M2 for most is genuine daily alternative that could track etc

As per a very good post early on, not cars for me that I’d cross shop that much, except similar prices depending which spec you might go for.

[DSTR]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

Never understood this. Pledging allegiance to a niche of cars is just clubbing your kneecaps and depriving you of what's good out there

I cross shop both. The DH is too heavy, the interior is a step back, and the engine isn't bespoke enough. The M2 has a broken face and rear. Hope Ford releases a better Mustang and hope BMW fixes the M2's looks, then I'll cross shop them again

Shame both cars feel like a step forward and back at the same time versus their predecessors

Go drive the M2. Really drive it if you have not lol. Step backwards. Hardly the case. Its better in every way performance wise than the previous gen M2. No question. Looks is always subjective but if can go drive it, If you have not.

[Carefree]

Dollar for dollar the G87 is one of the best, if not the best, new performance cars available today.
IMO

[CJ]

Originally Posted by Carefree

Dollar for dollar the G87 is one of the best, if not the best, new performance cars available today.
IMO

This is a great thread and agree after 3600 miles in my G87.

I’ve driven pdk base 992 and while it was nice, I actually think I prefer my G87 with full exhaust and manual on Msuspension . Maybe a Carrera T manual would be different but aside from the issue of being twice the cost, the G87 is just a great car period for any money.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by c1pher

I have a 911 and hardly anyone says anything to me when I drive it. When I’m in the M2. I get thumbs up from other drivers, people compliment the M2, ask all kinds of questions or strike up conversations. I am surprised how many people know what an M2 even is as sort of a niche car. This morning, some guy wanted me to visit his boat dealership because he had a similar white/black speedboat and take photos of them together. I was like well I’m on my way somewhere else but thanks….stalker?

Hmmm! I get a ton of comments, curious onlookers and thumbs up gestures in my 911. Like anything else it depends on the overall presentation/spec. My crazier colored ///M cars received much more attention than the subdued ///M cars I have owned. A black or white 911, for example, isn’t going to shine as bright in the public sphere like a Python Green, Chalk/Arctic Gray or Ruby Star 911 will. The colors are just more interesting. The ///M2 also looks bold(er) and it has odd angles that catch people’s eyes. Depending on your 911 and the spec, they’re almost boring to some people.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by stark_c

Not particularly about pledging alliance or fanboy a brand, they drive very differently, simple as that. Muscle cars are a different breed. Driving dynamics preference does exist.

I do agree with this. The differences aren’t always easy to articulate, but they are palatable. To go from a Mustang coupe to an ///M4, for example, feels worlds apart……..at least to me. Online it would seem the “cross shopping” is more prevalent, but I don’t get that same sense when I talk to people in the real world. I think rather than a brand allegiance issue, it truly comes down to the experience someone is seeking. Someone looking for a more refined performance car with certain luxury attributes isn’t typically looking at a Mustang, Camaro, etc., thus, they wouldn’t be cross shopping something from BMW, Mercedes, etc. with Ford, Chevy, etc. To me, it’s the equivalent of saying somebody looking at a 911 is also looking at a Zupra.

[SliChillax]

Originally Posted by stark_c

I honestly don’t think normal people cross shop mustang with M cars. Either you do German or you do American muscle.

Wrong. I cross shopped back in 2018 a BMW M4 Competition with the Camaro ZL1. Test drove both, bought the ZL1.

[Snarky]

Originally Posted by stark_c

I honestly don’t think normal people cross shop mustang with M cars. Either you do German or you do American muscle.

I am very much this guy. I cross-shopped the M235i vs. the S550 back in 2016 when I was coming from a 2008 Infiniti G37s coupe (which I loved). At that time, I just couldn't justify the premium to get into the BMW given a fully optioned S550 with sensible mods was $45k'ish.

Fast forward 8 years (and many, many Ford'isms later), and the value proposition is completely reversed. Faced with the same decision, opting for the M2 was a no-brainer.

As much as I tried to love my S550, I just couldn't get past tolerating it. Today, I'm at status code 160 and excited for the next chapter.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by stark_c

I honestly don’t think normal people cross shop mustang with M cars. Either you do German or you do American muscle.

I think I'm normal and I definitely cross-shopped American muscle with M cars. In fact, I ended up with a 2018 Camaro 2SS 1LE after comparing it to the M2. Do not regret the decision one bit. I still miss the brash and brutal nature of the 1LE and the amazing small-block Chevy sound and wish I could have both the Camaro and M2 in my garage.

Not sure why liking both types of cars is something you don't understand?

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by wjones14

I think I'm normal and I definitely cross-shopped American muscle with M cars. In fact, I ended up with a 2018 Camaro 2SS 1LE after comparing it to the M2. Do not regret the decision one bit. I still miss the brash and brutal nature of the 1LE and the amazing small-block Chevy sound and wish I could have both the Camaro and M2 in my garage.

Not sure why liking both types of cars is something you don't understand?

I am the first to say I am a fan and a prior owner of a number of American muscle cars but those cars were from the 60s and 70s. What American manufacturers produce now is junk. Put a high performance motor into a piece of junk body, interior remainder of drivetrain is not American muscle.

I would rather spend the money on a numbers matching classic (if you want a show queen) or a resto-mod if you want a powerful, safe American muscle driver.

[Carefree]

Current American Muscle is an incredible evolution of the original intent. Today’s cars are stuffed with luxury options such as A/C, power everything, and sophisticated suspension systems. They are race cars in street clothes.

In my day, yes I’m dating myself, American Muscle was a big block (usually) stuffed into a 2 door coupe. The cars’ single intention was to travel stoplight to stoplight fast without regard to handling and/or stopping. To achieve this carpets, insulation and occasionally radios and heaters were deleted to minimize weight. Fiberglass and aluminum body parts were common. Holes were drilled in the undercarriage to lighten the car.

I owned a 1969 Plymouth that was an absolute beast and a holy terror under full acceleration. My G87 would smoke that car and I can still hear my favorite tunes at the same time with a comfortable 72° temp.

My how times have changed.

IMO

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

I am the first to say I am a fan and a prior owner of a number of American muscle cars but those cars were from the 60s and 70s. What American manufacturers produce now is junk. Put a high performance motor into a piece of junk body, interior remainder of drivetrain is not American muscle.

I would rather spend the money on a numbers matching classic (if you want a show queen) or a resto-mod if you want a powerful, safe American muscle driver.

Respect your opinion but couldn't disagree more. My 2SS 1LE was every bit as quality a car as my F87 M2 Comp, mechanically and fit and finish. The suede leather Recaro heated/ventilated seats were much more comfortable and grippy than my M2 seats - not even close. The Camaro's Bose stereo was superior to the M2 H/K system. The gauge cluster in the Camaro was customizable - you choose the look - what a concept! The Chevy infotainment center was just as responsive as iDrive and much more intuitive. The ride was comparable in both, even though the 1LE had adaptive dampers and the F87 doesn't.

Not sure you want to even start comparing the chassis, steering, and braking. I drove both the Camaro and the M2 at Watkins Glen and Lime Rock. The Camaro is the easier car to drive fast on track, at least for drivers of my modest abilities. I drove the M2 in MDM mode and the Camaro in Sport+ mode. My 1LE lap times were better at both tracks, and the Camaro felt more stable, especially under hard high-speed braking.

Why not read Road & Track's comparison?

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...camaro-ss-1le/

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by CJ

This is a great thread and agree after 3600 miles in my G87.

I’ve driven pdk base 992 and while it was nice, I actually think I prefer my G87 with full exhaust and manual on Msuspension . Maybe a Carrera T manual would be different but aside from the issue of being twice the cost, the G87 is just a great car period for any money.

I ordered a manual T 18 months ago, and estimated delivery date about now. Sometimes I wonder if I made the right choice to back out… then I read comments like this and feel better.

OTD was $156k (tax, fees, dealer PPF on top of a $143k MSRP) which climbed to $162k after a price hike.

I backed out because every time I drove a base 992 I found it suboptimal to the M3. It’s possible to go bare bones on the T at $135k+ OTD. But is it worth the premium? I’m not convinced. And I have driven 20k miles on my weekend car since then, so I wouldn’t be immune to depreciation on the 911. Then there’s the issue of insurance and maintenance… bottom line, the M2 or M3 are a great value.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by wjones14

Respect your opinion but couldn't disagree more. My 2SS 1LE was every bit as quality a car as my F87 M2 Comp, mechanically and fit and finish. The suede leather Recaro heated/ventilated seats were much more comfortable and grippy than my M2 seats - not even close. The Camaro's Bose stereo was superior to the M2 H/K system. The gauge cluster in the Camaro was customizable - you choose the look - what a concept! The Chevy infotainment center was just as responsive as iDrive and much more intuitive. The ride was comparable in both, even though the 1LE had adaptive dampers and the F87 doesn't.

Not sure you want to even start comparing the chassis, steering, and braking. I drove both the Camaro and the M2 at Watkins Glen and Lime Rock. The Camaro is the easier car to drive fast on track, at least for drivers of my modest abilities. I drove the M2 in MDM mode and the Camaro in Sport+ mode. My 1LE lap times were better at both tracks, and the Camaro felt more stable, especially under hard high-speed braking.

Why not read Road & Track's comparison?

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...camaro-ss-1le/

You 100% didn’t read what I wrote. It was identifying current American "muscle" cars as an actual (old school) American muscle. What American manufacturers are producing now are wanna be luxury cars with high numbers powertrains. Sorry but that is not an American muscle car.

If you're seriously comparing an American car's interior and quality to that of a European's, now that us comical. You need to get the stars and stripes out of your vision (and feel).