[OldButSmooth]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

I think the 718 4.0 is a better comparison, but it prices out at $110k vs $77k for a fully loaded M2 (both with MT).

But there is no denying that the M2 is the bargain performance car; compared to any like performing Porsche.

Agree, probably a better comparison (excepting it is not a 2 + 2 coupe). The Cayman GTS 4.0 is around $90,000 more than a fully equipped G87 here in Australia. Even the base model Cayman 2.0 is $30,000 (with similar options that are standard on G87) more than the M2.

[dxx]

Originally Posted by OldButSmooth

Agree, probably a better comparison (excepting it is not a 2 + 2 coupe). The Cayman GTS 4.0 is around $90,000 more than a fully equipped G87 here in Australia. Even the base model Cayman 2.0 is $30,000 (with similar options that are standard on G87) more than the M2.

Agree!!

[Habber]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

I think the 718 4.0 is a better comparison, but it prices out at $110k vs $77k for a fully loaded M2 (both with MT).

But there is no denying that the M2 is the bargain performance car; compared to any like performing Porsche.

Don’t get me wrong, I really like my M2 but I think this car competes more with the Mustang or Camaro. I think the Porsche brand is next level.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by Habber

Don’t get me wrong, I really like my M2 but I think this car competes more with the Mustang or Camaro. I think the Porsche brand is next level.

Not sure I would compare the G87 to Mustang or Camaro (keeping in mind this is the last yearbthe Camaro will be made). I would compare more to the RS5, RS3 or even the C63 AMG even with its 4 doors (not as to the MT but the car).

It in no way compares to the 911 (totally superior and in another class). I have trouble comparing to an entry level 718. I wouldn't bother with it just to say I drive a Porsche.

[Habber]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

Not sure I would compare the G87 to Mustang or Camaro (keeping in mind this is the last yearbthe Camaro will be made). I would compare more to the RS5, RS3 or even the C63 AMG even with its 4 doors (not as to the MT but the car).

It in no way compares to the 911 (totally superior and in another class). I have trouble comparing to an entry level 718. I wouldn't bother with it just to say I drive a Porsche.

RS3 💯 I agree. Good call.

[OldButSmooth]

Having driven Porsches for the past 40 years, I am not sure the driving experience in the G87 is all that different to a base model 992. Go apex hunting in either car on a nice road and you will come away with an exceptional experience...just one will be $200k cheaper.

[OldButSmooth]

Visited the Australian Porsche configurator this morning and noted the introduction of the 992.2 911's. Specced up a base 911 to as close to an Australian (fully specced) G87 M2 and was shocked to see that it is now $200k more expensive...clearly Porsche has noticed the downturn in western economies...good for them!

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by Habber

Don’t get me wrong, I really like my M2 but I think this car competes more with the Mustang or Camaro. I think the Porsche brand is next level.

If you're looking at performance, here's a manual G87 and a manual 911 T.
G87
C/D TEST RESULTS
30 mph: 1.5 sec 60 mph: 3.9 sec
100 mph: 8.7 sec
1/4-Mile: 12.2 sec @ 118 mph
130 mph: 14.6 sec
150 mph: 21.5 sec
Results above omit 1-ft rollout of 0.3 sec.
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 4.6 sec
Top Gear, 30–50 mph: 7.3 sec
Top Gear, 50–70 mph: 6.2 sec
Top Speed (mfr's claim): 177 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 154 ft
Braking, 100–0 mph: 302 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad: 1.03 g

911T
C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 4.0 sec
100 mph: 9.0 sec
1/4-Mile: 12.2 sec @ 116 mph
130 mph: 15.4 sec
150 mph: 22.7 sec
Results above omit 1-ft rollout of 0.4 sec.
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 4.9 sec
Top Gear, 30–50 mph: 12.9 sec
Top Gear, 50–70 mph: 8.6 sec
Top Speed (C/D est): 181 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 143 ft
Braking, 100–0 mph: 284 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad: 1.07 g

In terms of performance, I'd say yes, they certainly compete with each other. It terms or road feel, power delivery, fun factor, I honestly can't say as I haven't driven a 992.1 T yet. I have driven plenty of older 911s and I absolutely love how the G87 drives by comparison. If we're looking at fit and finish and overall lux items, I'd say it's a toss up, the G87 is a huge step up from the F series cars in that regard.
What you lose in brand cache (and probably resale value) is a $50,000 discount between the two.

[OldButSmooth]

Originally Posted by OldButSmooth

Visited the Australian Porsche configurator this morning and noted the introduction of the 992.2 911's. Specced up a base 911 to as close to an Australian (fully specced) G87 M2 and was shocked to see that it is now $200k more expensive...clearly Porsche has noticed the downturn in western economies...good for them!

A point I should have made is for the price of the specced 992.2 Porsche I could have a fully specced M2 and a BMW M3 Touring X-Drive for the same price...

[two_three_two]

https://www.thedrive.com/news/there-...he-911-in-2025

Headline: There Will Be No Manual Porsche 911 in 2025

aaaand its over. expect more defectors and conscientious objectors coming to the G87 manual camp any day now

[robopp]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

https://www.thedrive.com/news/there-...he-911-in-2025

Headline: There Will Be No Manual Porsche 911 in 2025

aaaand its over. expect more defectors and conscientious objectors coming to the G87 manual camp any day now

In 2025. They’ve only announced the GTS and base 911. There will absolutely be manual 911 offerings for the unannounced varients.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by robopp

In 2025. They’ve only announced the GTS and base 911. There will absolutely be manual 911 offerings for the unannounced varients.

Porsche is in many markets where they already don't offer a manual. if the base and GTS don't offer, it seems unlikely the S will offer, leaving maaybe the T and what else? Could be just the T and the GT cars in theory right? feels like a massive hole in the market...

[robopp]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

Porsche is in many markets where they already don't offer a manual. if the base and GTS don't offer, it seems unlikely the S will offer, leaving maaybe the T and what else? Could be just the T and the GT cars in theory right? feels like a massive hole in the market...

I think that’s correct. There are rumors that there will be a Turbo (non-S) that will be RWD and manual, but not be limited like the Sport Classic. The GTS can’t be offered in a manual because the hydrid motor is in the PDK transmission. Would be cool if they offered a GTS with just the 3.6 and eturbo and a manual. One can dream! Not surprised by base’s lack of manual, but it’s essentially the .1 GTS motor so maybe they’ll add a manual option later? That’s what they did with the 992.1 S and GTS. The S will be announced in a couple of months, but all indications are hybrid drivetrain so doubtful it will have a manual offering. Unknown if the .2 will have a T offering, but all signs point to yes and there’s no way that doesn’t come with a manual option.
On a side note, prices went up 6-8% across the board! I think it’s nuts that a GTS base price is nearly 170k (US) now. Easily a $200k car once you start adding basic options.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by robopp

I think that’s correct. There are rumors that there will be a Turbo (non-S) that will be RWD and manual, but not be limited like the Sport Classic. The GTS can’t be offered in a manual because the hydrid motor is in the PDK transmission. Would be cool if they offered a GTS with just the 3.6 and eturbo and a manual. One can dream! Not surprised by base’s lack of manual, but it’s essentially the .1 GTS motor so maybe they’ll add a manual option later? That’s what they did with the 992.1 S and GTS. The S will be announced in a couple of months, but all indications are hybrid drivetrain so doubtful it will have a manual offering. Unknown if the .2 will have a T offering, but all signs point to yes and there’s no way that doesn’t come with a manual option.
On a side note, prices went up 6-8% across the board! I think it’s nuts that a GTS base price is nearly 170k (US) now. Easily a $200k car once you start adding basic options.

turbo RWD with a stick would be incredible (edit: and likely 200k), but it really does seem to be a shame the direction they are taking the car. with weight, the price, all this hybrid gear and PDK only, i think it will struggle to properly differentiate itself to buyers vs some of the more honest GT options out there. not that i can tell any non turbo car apart after the 992.1 without badging... moving the sticks to high dollar or special editions only i think will prove to be a strategic mistake on porsches part.

for everyone's sake i hope a base manual is offered at some point, but the reality is this will likely push many enthusiasts out of the nameplate i think.

[robopp]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

turbo RWD with a stick would be incredible (edit: and likely 200k), but it really does seem to be a shame the direction they are taking the car. with weight, the price, all this hybrid gear and PDK only, i think it will struggle to properly differentiate itself to buyers vs some of the more honest GT options out there. not that i can tell any non turbo car apart after the 992.1 without badging... moving the sticks to high dollar or special editions only i think will prove to be a strategic mistake on porsches part.

for everyone's sake i hope a base manual is offered at some point, but the reality is this will likely push many enthusiasts out of the nameplate i think.

I agree. However, Porsche, like all manufacturers, likes money so depending on how the .2 sells they might pull an audible and reintroduce a manual where they can assuming this isn’t already the plan. They did it with the 991.2 GT3 so they do listen. We shall see!

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by robopp

I agree. However, Porsche, like all manufacturers, likes money so depending on how the .2 sells they might pull an audible and reintroduce a manual where they can assuming this isn’t already the plan. They did it with the 991.2 GT3 so they do listen. We shall see!

Porsche may have no option than to sell BEVs or Hybrids in the EU in the future, so development of models that are not sold in Europe may not happen. Porsche are in the same emissions pool as VW, the whole pool may miss it’s 2025 CO2 target due to the slow down in electric vehicle sales, if that happens every vehicle in the pool registered in Europe will cause a €95 fine per g/km over the target or about €100 million for each excess g/km of CO2 above 122g/km.

[robopp]

Originally Posted by aerobod

Porsche may have no option than to sell BEVs or Hybrids in the EU in the future, so development of models that are not sold in Europe may not happen. Porsche are in the same emissions pool as VW, the whole pool may miss it’s 2025 CO2 target due to the slow down in electric vehicle sales, if that happens every vehicle in the pool registered in Europe will cause a €95 fine per g/km over the target or about €100 million for each excess g/km of CO2 above 122g/km.

Porsche did hit lambda 1 with the new 911 3.6 motor so there’s that.

Compared with the 9A2 engine in the 992.1 GTS. the 9A3 engine's compression ratio has increased from 10.2:1 to 10.5:1, and peak boost pressure rises from 18.6 psi to 26.1. Ordinarily, these changes and the displacement increase would suggest a power increase from 473 horsepower in the old engine to roughly 700 ponies in the new one. After all, that's nearly as much displacement and vastly more boost than today's 640-hp 911 Turbo S.

In fact, the power only increases by 5 horsepower, to 478, while peak torque rises not at all from 420 pound-feet. The culprit is Lambda 1—meaning a perfectly balanced ratio of fuel and air at all engine operating points. For decades, all modern engines have operated at an air-to-fuel ratio of Lambda 1 because that produces the only exhaust that can be used by three-way catalysts to reduce all three of the major smog pollutants. Only at full throttle, which rarely occurs during the emissions tests, have engines gone slightly rich to increase power by perhaps 2 percent, to reduce temperatures to preserve engine or catalyst longevity, or to suppress detonation in turbocharged engines.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a6...ngine-details/

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by robopp

Porsche did hit lambda 1 with the new 911 3.6 motor so there’s that.


https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a6...ngine-details/

Lambda 1.0 operation doesn't have significant effect on CO2 output (which drives the EU CO2 related fines), more to do with CO, NOx and other carbon and nitrogen related pollutants which have to be reduced to meet EU7 regulations that come into effect on 1 July 2025. EU7 has to be complied with to allow a vehicle to be sold in Europe, as opposed to the CO2 regulations that are dealt with by fines for missing the target.

[MJBO]

Originally Posted by OldButSmooth

A point I should have made is for the price of the specced 992.2 Porsche I could have a fully specced M2 and a BMW M3 Touring X-Drive for the same price...

I am considering this combination, adding a manual G87 M2 with carbon seats to compliment my G81 M3T auto xDrive with sport seats

Was long keen on a Porsche, and did enjoy my time behind the wheel of both a 992.1 Carrera and a 718 GT4 manual, but the current crop of Ms are so fast, capable and fun, I’m not sure I care much any more.

[OldButSmooth]

Originally Posted by MJBO

I am considering this combination, adding a manual G87 M2 with carbon seats to compliment my G81 M3T auto xDrive with sport seats

Was long keen on a Porsche, and did enjoy my time behind the wheel of both a 992.1 Carrera and a 718 GT4 manual, but the current crop of Ms are so fast, capable and fun, I’m not sure I care much any more.

Affordable fun remains fun, without the guilt of putting miles on the odometer which is always in the back of your mind when owning/driving a Porsche. Porsches remain an excellent and an expensive second car where as an M car can be that one and only.

[robopp]

Originally Posted by OldButSmooth

Affordable fun remains fun, without the guilt of putting miles on the odometer which is always in the back of your mind when owning/driving a Porsche. Porsches remain an excellent and an expensive second car where as an M car can be that one and only.

I don’t think about miles on my 911 for a second. It’s not a museum piece, it’s just a car. Having done it for a year now, the two car setup is the only thing I’ll do going forward. No need to compromise on either side.

[Bimmerfun82]

The M2 is an incredible value. Here in the states you can have an M2 and a 991.2 GTS for the price of the 992.2 GTS. Heck, you can have a manual M3 and an M2 for what the CPO 992.1T’s are going for.